The truth about Canadian healthcare

Jovial

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Isn't there less incentive to work if the health care is free? Getting health insurance is a motivation to get an education and a decent job.

I just wonder how many of the uninsured Americans are uninsured by choice. I mean they choose not to have (and keep) a job with health benefits.
To clarify, I was thinking of a lot of people in their 20's that never needed insurance, so work at jobs without it, or go from job to job not thinking it's important. It's only after they have a medical problem that they realize health insurance is good to have. I'm not sure how many people this is. I realize there are a lot of people that work, want insurance, but don't have it.
 

9inchcanadian

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I considered moving there until I learned how long it takes to acquire citizenship and thus qualify for the universal healthcare. I forget exactly what the time frame was; I just remember that it sounded like too long to wait.

You dont require citizenship to qualify. I had my health card in 2 months of arriving in Ontario and i dont even work. My boyfriend is a nurse here on a work visa. I have applied for residency but that had no bearing on it.

The Healthcare system here is incredible, the ratio of nursing staff to patient is 1-3 and although there will always be problems with waiting lists and emergency queues If i ever have a health care in the states I'm gonna suck it up and try to get home as fast as humanly possible. I hope Obama makes good on his promises if he gets in.
 
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No, there is not less incentive to work if the health care is free - that idea quite honestly doesn't even make sense, to your buds here north of the border.

We still need to pay for rent or mortgages, food, utilities, taxes, and everything else. Incentives to get educated and get a better job should be completely unrelated to being healthy, or being sick! Unless you're an American, apparently.

Do you think we all just sit around, up here in Canada? Everyone I know has a job and pays taxes - which helps pay for the health care system.

Ditto. Thanks for saving me having to post the same thing. Health care in Canada isn't free. It is paid for with taxes which come from having a job. We have the same living expenses as Americans do just minus the cost of health insurance. Those who don't work in Canada suffer the consequences just like Americans who don't work. I'm considered "upper middle class" by Canadian standards in terms of income, but I have to work 2 jobs to have the lifestyle I enjoy.
 
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223790

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Healthcare in Canada is much like the education system in the US. It's mandated by the Federal government, but each province is in charge of who gets what. There is a slight difference in healthcare between the provinces.

Ontario has a list of procedures that are covered by OHIP. Many procedures, like eye exams, are not free. Drugs are not free unless you are on some kind of assistance. Many Canucks have private drug insurance, or supplemental healthcare insurance. Of course, private hospitals are still an option if you want to pay or if your private insurance will cover them.

Being 'free' isn't always good. Seniors are over-medicated, despite a recent imposition $2.00 per prescription dispensing fee. There are a few expensive procedures that are not covered. I disagree with the idea that free healthcare stagnates research, or that there is a continuous backlog of patients. I have never waited in an emergency room for longer than an hour, and Canada is a world leader in pharmaceutical research. The system isn't perfect, but we worked hard to get it and we are afraid to lose it.

Well put. Nothing in life is perfect, but I would still take our system of socialized health care over private health care.
 

B_sugarandspice

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I remember once seeing an ad on American TV with a quote from the Globe and Mail (big Canadian newspaper) editorial about how "Canada's health care system is in crisis" blah blah blah, and then the ad said that's why you shouldn't vote for proposition whatever to allow affordable Canadian drugs to be sold to senior citizens.

Anyway the editorial, which I'd read, was about how Canada's healthcare system was in crisis because of politicians (who have since changed their tune) who wanted to make it like the American system which was, to paraphrase, an absolute disaster, leaving many poor (many of whom are children), elderly, and mentally ill without necessary coverage.

So I guess I would tell you that Americans who try to say our system sucks are, like the people who made that ad, liars, ignorant, or both.
how bout greedy,evil?
 

Mem

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It's the wealthy people and those who can afford health care in the US that try to convince the masses that Universal Health Care is a bad idea. And it's working.
 

breeze

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I'm not clear on this so any information is helpful. Why do you have to go to canada for free health care ? Isn't free health care available in mass. and i believe san francisco { although small business owners filed a lawsuit here } but its either here or just around the corner. How does it work ? Is any medical procedure free ? I know the homeless in san francisco are being given cards {to prove they live there} to use in hospitals if they need medical care. How long would you have to live in san francisco to receive the free health care ? I know that other countries have universal health care. Does anyone know if that includes free long term care or if any country has free long term care ? If you need to go to a nursing home its extremely expensive here and the costs come out of your own pocket.
 

kalipygian

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Canadians pay half per capita, around 7% to our 15%, for a comparable level of service.
It is pretty absurd for some in the US to claim universal coverage will necessarily be more expensive.
 

headbang8

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Glad you asked this question, sugarandspice.

I have lived under every kind of healtcare regime--in Australia (like the Canadian system), in Japan (national health, but scary), the USA (flat out fucked up), and Germany (bureaucratic, but it works).

When I lived in NYC (2004-2007). I had cushy health care, generously subsidised by an elite employer. I was successful in getting only about half of my claims paid. The only thing that was easy seemed to be drugs. I wonder why?

Further, I had that stupid health savings plan, administered by the company health insurer. You know, the one where you can save up to five grand pre-tax and use it for health expenses.

I tried to claim a couple of pairs of glasses. Impossible. They wouldn't approve it unless it was on the correct form. They wouldn't provide me or my optometrist with such a form, saying that the doc should have it already. The doc sent in the usual form she used with my insurance company, and it was bounced twice. I gave up.

But who, I asked, keeps the money if I don't or can't use it? The government? The HR people at my company didn't know, but they thought it might be the insurance company administering the account.

Most opponents of national health schemes base their objections on an article of faith. Private enterprise will always be cheaper than government enterprise.

Problem is, private enterprise simply doesn't work with health care. If you're a normal provider of goods or services want to grow your business, you have a number of options. All of them work in the consumer's favour.

1. Cut the price so people will buy more, or buy more often.

2. Gain share from other providers so that you can enjoy economies of scale.

3. Raise the quality of your goods or services, so you can charge more for them.

None of these apply to health care.

1. People (mostly) use healthcare when they're sick. This is not a discretionary purchase. I'm not going to have three appendectomies just because they're cheap.

2. It's unrealistic to expect people to shop around for doctors. If I have an accident, I don't expect three ambulance companies to arrive on the scene and bid for my business.

3. All healthcare should be of the highest quality, period. Nobody should be asked to compromise. "No thanks, I'll take the cheaper bypass, you know, the one where I don't get brain damage but still stay too weak to climb stairs. My house is a ranch, anyway. I don't need to be in the peak of health, and I can use the savings for a new set of golf clubs..."

Under these circumstances, there are four ways for a private health care company to increase its return:

1. Cut corners
2. Cheat on your obligations
3. Only insure people who will never need your services.
4. Conspire with competitors to keep prices higher than they need be.

But this has never happened in the United States, has it?

Better simply to say to all: you're sick, you get fixed.

Yes, taxes are higher in some countries to pay for universal health care. But look at it this way. If I take the tax burden I paid in New York, and add my health costs, then it works out to be a much higher %age in NYC than it did in Australia. That's just in tax plus premiums (and I had supplementary health insurance in Australia). It doesn't count my extra costs in NYC because I had to pay for so much out of pocket.

Now, the Australian system has running into trouble, simply because they've tried to partially privatise it to save the government some money. The newly-elected Australian government has scrapped that idea--it simply didn't work.

In moving out of the USA, I voted with my feet. Health care was an important factor.
 

headbang8

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Does anyone know if that includes free long term care or if any country has free long term care ? If you need to go to a nursing home its extremely expensive here and the costs come out of your own pocket.
Yes, it does include long-term care. My mother in Australia lived in an old folk's home, and then a nursing home for many years. The home took about two thirds of her Social Security check every month, and provided pretty much everything she needed in return. She had the other third for pin money and private expenses. It was an amazingly nice place, too. I'd live there.
 

BIGBULL29

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From what I've been reading, Québec has alot of problems with its healthcare system (seems more than some of the others). So, it's a provincial issue, not just a national one.

Our healthcare system in the US has been crazy for about 15 years now.

Canada copies the US in just about everything but healthcare, drinking age minimum and pornography laws (most relaxed in Québec).
 

vindicator

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I'm in Ontario and have never had any problems accessing healthcare or waiting myself. Come to think of it, neither has anyone else i know. I just know, i go to the hospital or doctor, show them my provincial health card and walk out when done. :wink:
 
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I hope Canadians will continue to contribute to this thread. I'm sending the testimonials to people I know who are all convinced that the Canadian system is a disaster.

Thank you so much for informing we misinformed Americans. There's nothing like hearing opinions on something from the people who are most familiar with it!
 

Gillette

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Jason, have these friends watched "Sicko"?

I just now took the opportunity to watch the film and I'd be surprised to hear someone could watch that and still be against free national health care.

I was speaking to an American tourist who was complaining of the higher price of alcohol here. I explained that the additional costs on alcohol and tobacco products helped to subsidise our free healthcare. Something that makes sense as use of these products can lead to reliance on heath care. His response was that if he wanted free healthcare all he had to do was enlist.

!!!

I shut my yob at that point. If risking life and limb is a preferable trade off to five dollars more on booze to earn him treatment to save life and limb who am I to argue? Everyone has their priorities, I suppose.

Yes, there are increased costs involved. There are taxes added on most purchases here in Canada. Our income tax may be higher than what Americans are accustomed to, but it balances out. It may take a little longer to pay off the house or the SUV but should you be suddenly faced with a medical catastrophy in your family you can get them the treatment they need without having to put either up for sale. Or risking your life in BigCompany's war.

Is that not worth it?
 

D_Tintagel_Demondong

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Jason, have these friends watched "Sicko"?

I just now took the opportunity to watch the film and I'd be surprised to hear someone could watch that and still be against free national health care.

I was speaking to an American tourist who was complaining of the higher price of alcohol here. I explained that the additional costs on alcohol and tobacco products helped to subsidise our free healthcare. Something that makes sense as use of these products can lead to reliance on heath care. His response was that if he wanted free healthcare all he had to do was enlist.
!!!
I shut my yob at that point. If risking life and limb is a preferable trade off to five dollars more on booze to earn him treatment to save life and limb who am I to argue? Everyone has their priorities, I suppose.

Yes, there are increased costs involved. There are taxes added on most purchases here in Canada. Our income tax may be higher than what Americans are accustomed to, but it balances out. It may take a little longer to pay off the house or the SUV but should you be suddenly faced with a medical catastrophy in your family you can get them the treatment they need without having to put either up for sale. Or risking your life in BigCompany's war.

Is that not worth it?
Sicko was a great movie, but frustrating to watch. I honestly don't know why American's are so complacent about healthcare. Maybe they need a Tommy Douglas?

I'm all for vice taxes, but not just alcohol. Being ultra-liberal, I'd like to see things like marijuana and prostitution also taxed, but that's a different thread altogether. In the mid-90's, pharmacists in Ontario got together and pressured pharmacies to stop selling tobacco products. It was too self-defeating to sell cigarettes while dispensing medication for throat cancer. Now no pharmacy in Ontario sells tobacco products. I wonder if other provinces have also done this.

Taxes are very high in Ontario. We have the Federal Income Tax and the GST, as does Nova Scotia, but we also have an 8% provincial sales tax. We end up paying an extra 14% on almost everything we buy. It's surprising how much of my money goes to the government, with property taxes, parking, licensing, etc.

Ontario also has horribly unfair transfer payments, but again, that's a different thread.
 

BIGBULL29

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I'm not taking sides. I would simply like to hear from more Canadians.

Read this article written by a journalist from Calgary, Canada.

Canada's Healthcare System is Bad Medicine by Glenn Woiceshyn -- Capitalism Magazine

I lived in Australia for two years. While there, I had a few minor health problems. The care I received was excellent and very very affordable. I'm not sure Canada's system is superior to Australia's, but I have found the UK's system to be very very flawed (sister had a horrible time with her pregnancy under the NHS system in Britain).

Yes, America can provide the best health care in the world to its patients, provided they have good insurance.
 

Bbucko

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Yes, America can provide the best health care in the world to its patients, provided they have good insurance.


But those who cannot purchase insurance have their lives devastated, not just by their health issues, but by the sheer economics of living with chronic conditions the treatments for which must be per force, paid out of pocket.

When the pockets are eventually emptied, health care ceases to matter. They'd just as rather see you die.
 

erratic

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I hope Canadians will continue to contribute to this thread. I'm sending the testimonials to people I know who are all convinced that the Canadian system is a disaster.

Thank you so much for informing we misinformed Americans. There's nothing like hearing opinions on something from the people who are most familiar with it!


Dear Jason's friends who think Canada's healthcare system is a disaster,

I don't personally know a single Canadian who is not happy with our healthcare system; further, I know some who would probably be dead if they had to pay for things like CT scans and fMRIs.

Canadians who don't like our healthcare system tend to be those who would make money off a system like yours. But most of us up here don't like the idea of lives being measured alongside dollars.
 

Mem

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The dumb thing about Sicko was when they went to Cuba and they tried to make it look like a good system. The Medicine cabinets at their drug stores were bare. Everyone is poor and what little wealth the country had is stolen by the government.