The truth about Canadian healthcare

[kalipygian]

If that's true then the Canadians must be paying quite a bit out-of-pocket for prescriptions in general.

Prescription medicine prices are sufficiently lower for it to be worthwhile for people in the US to get them from Canadian online pharmacies by mail.

 

[Gillette]

If that's true then the Canadians must be paying quite a bit out-of-pocket for prescriptions in general.

To be honest I'd have to do research on that. I've never not been covered by a drug plan. My blue cross through work is a 2$ co-pay for all prescription drugs regardless of price.

 

[headbang8]

In Germany, the system is not really like Australia or Canada. Not as good, IMHO, but it still works.

Health insurance is compulsory in Germany. You can opt to be privately insured--but insurance companies can pick and choose their customers to offer cheaper rates, with all the bad stuff that entails. Further, if you have a high income, you are strongly encouraged to insure yourself privately.

There is a government insurer of last resort, which offers quite decent service but tends to be marginally more expensive. Of course, if you have a low income, the government insurer waives your premium entirely.

In both cases. the premiums are a lot lower than in the USA. And there are strict laws which prevent insurers from denying claims unjustly.

In my case, because I'm fifty and tubby, I found public insurance to be cheaper. It makes no difference to the doctor or hospital. I whip out my insurance card, and most doctors will send the bill straight to the insurer.

After WWII, there was a reluctance to give too much power to any central government authority in Germany. Since insurance schemes work on economies of scale, that means the fragmented multi-payer system is actually less cost effective than it might be. However, Germans make it work as efficiently as possible because, well, they are Germans.

Nonetheless, the principle that everyone must be covered, stands firm. It really shocks me to hear some Americans say that many sick people deserve financial hardship because they were unemployed, or didn't take care of their health, or failed to plan ahead. It made me incredibly uncomfortable when I lived there.

 

[2322]

Not every insurance company completely covers hospital stay and post natal care. Three days after the birth of your child, they want you and your new baby to go home.

Here's what I love about my new insurance policy: I pay a reasonable deductible and they pay 100% for all preventative health care measures including pap smears, colorectal cancer screenings, mammograms, cholesterol tests, flu shots, osteoporosis screening, thyroid function, urinalysis, etc. An ounce worth a ton of cure and all that.

What your insurance company covers in a group plan is not up to the insurance company, but the employer. Employers are given option sheets much like a car dealer. Employers get basic model X of a policy and then can option it out with all kinds of nice things, for a price. Just like a car company they can start with the POS crapola economodel all the way up to the priciest limousine with all the options you could wish for. It all depends on what the policy holder, your employer, wants to pay for it.

When I administered health claims we had policies with barely any coverages with mere 50% copayments for hospitalizations and nothing for routine care at all. The best policies though..... these were amazing. These were straight indemnity plans (patient can choose to go to anyone, anywhere) and included private rooms, 24 hour home nursing, nutritional supplements, medical transportation including airlift to any hospital in the country at the insured's discretion, elective and cosmetic surgeries, no out-of-pocket costs for anything (including cosmetic dental and vision), and even health spa stays for two weeks a year. If the employer wanted to pay it, we covered it. It all came out of their premiums anyway so what did we care? We just added our administrative fees to the costs! Naturally, such plans were reserved for management and their families. The peons still had a good plan, but nothing nearly so extravagant. As I worked my way up the ladder in in my company, I was became part of a small group entrusted to administer these plans and while it was a privilege to be recognized as having the skills (and frequently manners and tact) to work with such high-profile clients, it was kind of a pain in the ass. We'd get calls from all kinds of providers from hospitals to masseurs incredulous that we'd actually cover this kind of care no-questions-asked. Many times we'd have to fax out guarantees of coverage to gape-jawed medical staff wondering how we could cover such things. As we explained, it's not us, it's what the employer authorizes for coverage. It's simple as that.

I'm not defending insurance companies one iota, but do realize that any insurance company can offer everything from bare-bones surly basic plans to highly generous policies with personalized consierge services. It pays to shop employer coverage and not assume that just because one insurance company offers a policy from one employer that the same insurance company offers the same policy from another employer. They don't.

Another secret. When it comes to major (sometimes even minor) claim denials, the employer, by nature of their buying the services of the insurance company, are empowered to override anything the insurance company decides. So if you're fighting with the insurance company over a claim, take it to your human resources department. They can present the claim to the proper people who can then decide to tell the insurance company whether to cover the claim or not. Allowances are actually pretty frequent. If HR can't fix the situation it's not because the insurance company denied the appeal (no matter what HR says), it's because your employer denied the appeal. Your insurance company won't tell you this because hey, you don't pay the premiums and the insurance company is paid to take the heat, but that's what will have happened. And at that point, it may indicate where you stand with your employer.

And so I reach my 4000th post! I was going to write some treacly sentimental thing, but meh. I'll wait until 5000

 

[Ethyl]

Prescription medicine prices are sufficiently lower for it to be worthwhile for people in the US to get them from Canadian online pharmacies by mail.

I know people who used to do this but weren't there restrictions on how much could be ordered a few years ago?

To be honest I'd have to do research on that. I've never not been covered by a drug plan. My blue cross through work is a 2$ co-pay for all prescription drugs regardless of price.

$2. A co-pay we all dream about but never see here.

 

[midlifebear]

Before becoming a USA expat and permanently living abroad, the only health care offered by my company was an HMO. This was in the "Intermountain West." The standing joke was: Q. Why was Jesus born in a manger? A. Because Mary and Joseph had an HMO.

Gillette: I was pleased to read your assessment of the Province of Alberta. Yes, even in the States of Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Ewetaw, and Nevada Albertan's are regarded as stuffy neocons who are actually retired Republicans hiding in Calgary and there about. Of course, you can follow a population stream of Republican mormons from as far south as Arizona, widening up through Ewetaw, dispersing at times through strings of mormon communities through Wyoming, Idaho, and Montana and sort of merging into a very retro-thinking conservative population in southern Alberta. Strange folk, they. In general, they are the die hard types who still think President Bush is "on the right track." I mention this not to just bash mormons. It's just curious that as a religious group in the USA they tend to be mostly Republican and blind to the concept that other people live among them who do not subscribe to their particular belief system. We're still not certain what happened, because for many decades mormons voted Democrat and were somewhat liberal in their world view towards their fellow human beings. But that's another thread.

As for health care in Canada, I must admit how great it was while on vacation in September 1980 when my boyfriend (who had great insurance with McDonnel Douglas Aerospace in Long Beach, CA) developed appendicitis and the emergency room hospital in Victoria, BC took him in without worrying about doing a wallet biopsy. They removed his appendix and released him six days later. He offered up his VISA card as collateral and the hospital said they would send him a bill for the medical services rendered. Instead, about three months later he received a, "Official" letter from the Province announcing that his medical costs had been "forgiven" by the HM the Queen. We could not believe that it was true, but after several phone calls we verified that it was true.

Canadians rule!

 

[Ethyl]

What your insurance company covers in a group plan is not up to the insurance company, but the employer. Employers are given option sheets much like a car dealer. Employers get basic model X of a policy and then can option it out with all kinds of nice things, for a price. Just like a car company they can start with the POS crapola economodel all the way up to the priciest limousine with all the options you could wish for. It all depends on what the policy holder, your employer, wants to pay for it.

I know this to be true. My mother dealt with insurance companies on a daily basis at work. I suspect the "upscale" insurance companies market themselves to companies they know can afford their extravagant services rather than your average business. The vast difference between the haves and the have-nots.

I"m sure my employers chose my particular healthcare based on the fact that what we do is stressful. Fun, but stressful nonetheless. We work closely with clients one-on-one so good physical health is important in promoting career longevity and less turnover.

And so I reach my 4000th post! I was going to write some treacly sentimental thing, but meh. I'll wait until 5000

I'll toot my little horn for you, J. :biggrin1:

 

[D_Adoniah Sheervolume]

I personally have not had health insurance since 2003--can't afford it. A very basic plan with a $5,000 deductible/year would cost over 10% of my 2007 earnings. It sucks being an independent contractor in the US...

(I really like the way Phil_Ayesho thinks)

 

[scottbud]

I have no Idea how the US and Canadian health care works but here in NZ we pay our income tax, gst and there are other taxes on alcohol and tobaco. Not one person I know has ever had a problem with getting health care and I have never heard of anyone having to sell a single piece of property to get health care this included homes for the elderly and nursing homes. we get free health care and and every proceedure or surgery is also free. The only exception to this is if you go into a nursing home there is a certain cost per week assigned and you basicaly sign over your home to cover this for the rest of your life. But most people simply gift their home to their family before going into the home and then the state covers the expenses no problem. We also have private healthcare for those that can afford it they can have insurance to cover private care or they can be uninsured and just pay for the proceedures they have done.

We have a great system here making sure everyone is able to get the same quality of care. The only flaw I know of is if a particular hospital gets too busy they dont transfer patients to another one they make them wait until they can help them, but most people solve this by checking out and going to the next closest hospital.

 

[Freddie53]

My brother-in-law is a citizen of New Zealand. He moved here to the USA met my sister and they married and had a family. Their son has a serious life long disease. They moved to New Zealand so that their son could receive adequate health care as an adult as at age 18 children are dropped from their parents' insurance and the company that insured the family does NOT have to accept keeing the child at ANY cost.

How can I be proud of my country when my sister had to move to New Zealand to see that her son was taken care of for his lifetime? "We live the in the greatest nation on earth," the econs and Republicans keep reminded us over and over. It is hard for me to get with that program when my own family had to go to another country to see that a sick son would be taken care of as an adult.

For those who don't know, when a child is born with one parent an American citizen and the other parent a New Zealand parent then the child has dual citizenship.

My sister as the spouse of a New Zealand citizen automatically received some heath benefits immediately. I don't remember the details. I just was amazed that she would immediately be enrolled in the New Zealand heath care system.

The interesting thing about Blue Cross is that the policy holders are suppose to be the stock holders. But the top brass at Blue Cross gets huge bonuses. That is how Blue Cross distributes its wealth to the top, not through stock.

To say that Blue Cross doesn't care about its policy holders is a vast understatement of the year. Blue Cross has one goal and that is to get large bonuses for all the top executives plus a pay raise the coming year. It has become a giant intent on getting bigger and bigger just to be doing do with no purpose in mind except GREED and POWER.

The American health care system sucks. It is the most inefficient. The government is still paying huge bucks into it. The insurance companies, the for profit hospitals and the doctors are getting the money.

How anyone could with a straight face suggest that Canada, New Zealand, or the UK health care is flawed and the American health care isn't is beyond me. I really doubt they are that naive.

 

[lilbighorn]

The truth about American healthcare: 45 million uninsured.

Is anything else relevant?

 

[TurkeyWithaSunburn]

At least in Canada everyone has health insurance. Here in the states it is hit or miss.

How many Americans currently have government health insurance? The number is FAR higher than what you think. Medicare/Medicaid cover millions of people.

How desperate can people get for healthcare? Lifeline ...on 60 Minutes; Exclusive Video Only on Yahoo! News
from the tv show 60Minutes

 

[D_Marazion Analdouche]

But those who cannot purchase insurance have their lives devastated, not just by their health issues, but by the sheer economics of living with chronic conditions the treatments for which must be per force, paid out of pocket.

When the pockets are eventually emptied, health care ceases to matter. They'd just as rather see you die.

Federal health care should be availble for situations like this, to include the sick, disabled and elderly.

If you work you should be enrolled in a private health care plan HEAR ME OUT BEFORE JUMPING ALL OVER ME PLEASE lol. With an added exception.

I have been lucky enough to make myself a decent living and I'm not blind to the fact the $200 a month I pay for health care doesn't effect me as someone that works for the same company as I do but works in shipping. I'm just picking a random job so don't send me hate mail if you work in shipping for a living.

I am using rough numbers here just for arguments sake so I don't need math corrections on proper tax percentages please. If you make 12,000 a month and only pay a couple hundred for a good health care system, of course you would rather take that option.

If you are making 2,200 a month and paying the same amount for that health care you should fall into getting tax relief from your weekly pay to make up for it. Meaning, if you are paying for you own Ins. and make under X amount of money per month you don't pay towards the federal plan. I would rather see private firms pay for procedures than tax dollars if it can be helped.

If you make over X, well then you still pay your share of taxes towards the system and still pay for you own private health care. I don't believe in a federal plan acrosss the board, I think it should be an option for those that for whatever reason cannot maitain their own private insurance. And if you want to stay with a private plan you get tax relief to stay on it.

Not sure if this is making sense or not.

 

[223790]

If that's true then the Canadians must be paying quite a bit out-of-pocket for prescriptions in general.

Not if you have benefits at work. I pay only 99 cents for my prescriptions regardless of their cost. I have had some prescriptions that cost $15.00 and some that cost $500.00, but I only have to pay the first 99 cents. My wife and I are fortunate to both have excellent drug benefits at the places where we work.

 

[223790]

the canadian military is like five guys with hockey sticks on a speed boat

Tell that to the Canadian families that have lost a loved one in the Canadian forces fighting in Afghanistan, and in numerous peace keeping missions around the world. Peace keeping was an idea put forward by Lester B. Pearson (a Canadian) and implemented first by the Canadian military. It has since been copied by governments around the world. Canada has always played the largest role of any country in the world in peace keeping and is seen as a respected world leader in peace keeping. My buddy who is a major in the Canadian forces and just finished a tour of duty in Afghanistan would take exception to your comment, and so do I. Canada has lost more soldiers fighting in Afghanistan than any other NATO country - a point conveniently overlooked in the U.S. government's rhetoric about the war on terror.

The current Conservative federal government in Canada under Prime Minister Stephen Harper is pouring billions of dollars into the Canadian armed forces to continue Canada's long standing tradition and role in peace keeping, fulfilling NATO obligations, fighting the war on terror in Afghanistan and protecting Canadian soverignty in the Arctic.

It would be wise to get your facts straight before making such ridiculous statements.

 

[Gillette]

AG08, I don't think that was said as an insult but as a joke. A joke generally said by Canadians. He said in his post that he moved from Canada. That makes him one of us regardless of where he lives now.

 

[Gillette]

Federal health care should be availble for situations like this, to include the sick, disabled and elderly.

If you work you should be enrolled in a private health care plan HEAR ME OUT BEFORE JUMPING ALL OVER ME PLEASE lol. With an added exception.

I have been lucky enough to make myself a decent living and I'm not blind to the fact the $200 a month I pay for health care doesn't effect me as someone that works for the same company as I do but works in shipping. I'm just picking a random job so don't send me hate mail if you work in shipping for a living.

I am using rough numbers here just for arguments sake so I don't need math corrections on proper tax percentages please. If you make 12,000 a month and only pay a couple hundred for a good health care system, of course you would rather take that option.

If you are making 2,200 a month and paying the same amount for that health care you should fall into getting tax relief from your weekly pay to make up for it. Meaning, if you are paying for you own Ins. and make under X amount of money per month you don't pay towards the federal plan. I would rather see private firms pay for procedures than tax dollars if it can be helped.

If you make over X, well then you still pay your share of taxes towards the system and still pay for you own private health care. I don't believe in a federal plan acrosss the board, I think it should be an option for those that for whatever reason cannot maitain their own private insurance. And if you want to stay with a private plan you get tax relief to stay on it.

Not sure if this is making sense or not.

Yes, it makes sense. However, the problem that crops up time and time again are when the HMO denies coverage, then in turn the doctor denies treatment, because your provider doesn't approve this hospital or that drug or manages to label it a preexisting condition.

The crux isn't what you pay. You'll be paying whether through the companies you use now or through taxation to pay for a federal health program. You have paid, you are paying, you will pay. Only the how will change. Please put that issue aside.

By having a federal or state run health care system every US citizen will receive the treatment they need at any hospital by any doctor regardless of whether or not the condition is preexisting.

The article by the Albertan author is full of logical holes but he does capture the crux of the issue with this portion.

The basic moral principle is egalitarianism—the belief that everyone must be given equal rewards regardless of performance or behavior. Everyone gets equal access to healthcare regardless of what they pay in taxes. And what one pays is independent of how much one uses the system. Egalitarianism is a species of altruism—the moral code which advocates self-sacrifice to others. (The opposite code is rational self-interest or rational egoism whereby each individual pursues their own well being and happiness—neither sacrificing oneself to others nor others to oneself—and social interaction is voluntary, not coerced.)

Egalitarianism for health care vs self interest. Call that self-interest or egoism rational if you wish but it's still self-interest.

For those who feel that the system as is is fine. For those who feel that "working harder" to afford a better HMO is the answer. For anyone who could watch some-one's child suffer from inadequate health care and think "not my problem".

It's time to stop calling America "the beautiful", because that's about the ugliest attitude there is.

 

[faceking]

People denouncing national health care are classifiable into one of three categories...
The rich who make money off of healthcare profits and for whom the cost of health insurance is a pittance.

The politicians who get donations from the healthcare for profit lobbies... and who, by the way , HAVE the best national healthcare plan in the world, but just for congressmen.

And the stupefied conservative dupes who mouth the republican party line because they are too ignorant and fearful to think for themselves.


If congress passed a law tomorrow saying that health insurers could not deny coverage to anyone... you can bet the health care companies would start SCREAMING for national health care...

The whole concept of insurance is that you spread the risk across the whole population.


That the richest nation on earth can not provide health care as a basic human right is embarrassing.
The government wouldn't pay for it... WE would... because we pay for EVERYTHING the govenrment does.

The folks against it don't like is because they don't believe in the re-distribution of wealth... they want it all to accrue into THEIR hands.





And as to Canadians having to wait......

Who the fuck cares if you have to wait...... For an ever increasing number of uninsured Americans... they don't even get the option of WAITING for care....

They just get to wait for death.

lordy... just when you thought communism was proven non-functional.

 

[faceking]

It's time to stop calling America "the beautiful", because that's about the ugliest attitude there is.

Last I checked... millions more weren't pouring into Canada.. or any other nation like the US for that matter.

America is still clearly the greatest nation on Earth. Otherwise, nations like Canada would be overwraught with immigration.

I am vehemently thankful for a private healthcare system.

 

[faceking]

By having a federal or state run healthcare system every US citizen will recieve the treatment they need at any hospital by any doctor regardless of whether or not the condition is preexisting.

Very easy for Canadian myopia to miss the "when" they will receive it, and under whose discretion.

Much less how much it will cost those who don't need the basic needs. A la, the top 20% pulling the weight of the bottom 80%.