The USA speaks on raising taxes

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Industrialsize, Aug 19, 2011.

  1. Industrialsize

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  2. Jason

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    The US deficit is huge. Reduction needs BOTH reduced expenditure and higher taxes. Any politician who tries to argue that just one of these levers will work is being economical with the truth. Almost certainly the USA will also use QE to inflate it's way out of a proportion of the debt.
     
  3. dazedandconfused

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    I think we need to raise taxes, however, we in this country have a history of raising taxes and not cutting spending.
     
  4. Klingsor

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    We have an even more questionable history of *lowering* taxes and not cutting spending. :wink:
     
  5. atlclgurl

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    Because Washington, and that includes ALL of Washington, all branches of the government, yes, including the judicial branch are owned and controlled by the uber-wealthy... who refuse to pay any tax they absolutely don't have too and will take any and every means to avoid paying even a cent of tax if possible.

    All one need to do is look at GE's tax avoidance dace and the fact that they paid a "small" tax bill for 2010. The following Propublica article cites a SEVEN (7) percent tax rate for a multi-billion dollar company. And they KEEP pushing for a "lower" bill!

    Setting The Record Straight on GE’s Taxes - ProPublica
     
  6. Jason

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    The reality of the deficit is that the USA has to do both or face the fury of the markets. Unfortunately there is no "nice" solution, no "nice" tax rises or "nice" cuts. There is a comfortable belief in the UK that somehow it is possible to tax the rich. The Coalition have put this to the test. We've increased our income tax on the highest earners from 40% to 50%. While I'm slightly jumping the gun as official figures are not yet published the leak is that the result has been LESS tax collected. Tax, if it is to work, has to be on middle and low earners. The rich employ good accountants, get domiciled elsewhere, decide not to do extra work or take extra salary - we're deluded if we think we can tax them.

    The question for all presidential candidates is how they plan to match the austerity of the UK and many nations in Europe. In the UK we have major cuts and major tax rises. The USA needs similar. The cuts have to be greater than the Tea Party dream of while the tax rises have to be higher than the most left- leaning democrat suggests, and the USA needs both. The clever economists in both parties know this, and all presidential candidates should be honest with the electorate and say this.

    From what I've seen of the US press the delusion is still that either tax rise or spending cuts alone can do the trick. The markets will call time on this madness with higher bind yields.
     
  7. vince

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    One trouble is Jason that the USA now runs a non-stop election cycle. The only business that gets done in Washington is the business of politics. The people's business and what is good for the nation is not even thought about by their representatives. I think that is all they actually know how to do and that even if they did stop politicking for few months, they wouldn't really have a clue about governing or finance or justice.


    So I really don't expect anyone there to do the right thing and even if they tried it would have a snowball's chance in hell. I am getting really pessimistic about the situation there and am very worried.
     
    #7 vince, Aug 19, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2011
  8. dandelion

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    Wasnt it in fact the labour party which did this in its final budget?

    Indeed you are. How has the total take from all taxes changed? What change was expected due to the changing economic position? Has income been switched into capital?


    So why dont we just ask the Chinese if we can join their country? No? I dont really accept your argument. The only possible end result of such a course is a bankrupt country and a mix of unemployed and rock bottom wage earners. Plus some very rich living in gated estates. This just cannot happen in a democracy where people ultimately have a vote and will force a halt. It is a recipe for revolution. (riot? did someone mention riot?)

    A relevant issue might be the sale announced today of some UK computing company to Hewlett Packard. Guess whether they may be transferring elsewhere. Whats needed is a law to prevent this sort of loss of british industry abroad. Stay here and pay taxes here. Maybe we should outsource the british army to someone. Iran perhaps? Maybe they would do it cheaper? there comes a point where this mantra of free movement of companies around the world simply becomes insane. It will have to stop. And a starting point is to sort out the tax system and push up taxes on the rich (which pretty much equates with taxes on companies)


    Seems to me the US underspends compared to europe on social programs and overspends on military. Some rebalancing not simply cutting is called for.


    My inclination is to agree. Because it looks to me as though borrowing to spend and boost the economy has been tried and failed. Or more precisely, it worked as expected but now it has stopped the economy has started to go backwards. The analysis I have seen is that the US economy is in serious structural decline because exactly of this phenomenon of moving jobs abroad. The 'free market' is now moving against all the developed economies.
     
    #8 dandelion, Aug 19, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2011
  9. Jason

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    I suspect you are right. For more than a decade the EuroZone has put politics before economics. Politicians really do seem to have believed their own rhetoric and have ignored all the clever economic advisors who have told them how it really is. There's even been a system of giving research grants to the academic economist who says what the politician wants to hear. But markets trump politics. I suspect the USA will come up with some sort of sticking plaster which will calm the markets for bit, so a politician can claim to have solved the problem. But it won't be solved.

    I think the USA is launching on a path where the debts force an unprecedented level of international co-operation. The immediate solution is more QE, but this makes an economy vulnerable to speculators. The defence is co-operation with other central banks to support mutual needs. It won't be China, and the EZ has problems that are too big. It will be the UK, Canada, Australia, NZ and a few others large and small, possibly including Japan and India.

    The EZ politicians refused to talk about. The possibility of euro failure, so now we're all playing catch up with the idea. I think the US politicians are similarly refusing to talk, but there will be planning behind the scenes.
     
  10. conntom

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    There are lies, damn lies and statistics.

    Lets throw polls in there too.

    Tell the gov't to stop wasting money on lazy people, other nations, unnecessary wars and the like BEFORE you ask me for one more dime.

    Want to raise taxes? How about the 50% of people who pay nothing in fed taxes actually start paying some and get some skin in this game.

    Raising taxes on the millionaires is a farce. It won't generate what they need, those taxes they need are going to be coming from the middle class like it always does and we all know this.
     
  11. MercyfulFate

    MercyfulFate New Member

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    We need to cut the defense budget down to the minimum, stop all the wars and withdraw troops from Iraq and Afghanistan.
     
  12. Klingsor

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    What middle class? In case you haven't noticed, it's disappearing fast in this country.
     
  13. MercyfulFate

    MercyfulFate New Member

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    Lazy people, like the unemployed?
     
  14. B_enzia35

    B_enzia35 New Member

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    Obama will do it when he's voted into office...oh wait...
     
  15. B_enzia35

    B_enzia35 New Member

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    Cute how y'all only see a small part of the whole story.
     
  16. MercyfulFate

    MercyfulFate New Member

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    Who's ya'll exactly? I picked that out because it offends me.

    Also, Obama should have stopped the wars but since he has no spine it hasn't happened.
     
  17. dandelion

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    News item today that france has announced tax rises for the rich and big companies. Following, I understand, the beginnings of a campaign by millionaires to pay more tax.

    The BBC naturally had some experts in to debate it. The pro tax guy said he had studied this for years. In the UK no rise in tax rates had ever led to a drop in revenue. Nor were any millionaires leaving the country, and they never had for reasons of tax.

    The anti guy said this was nonsense and there was loads of evidence that raising rates reduced tax take, and made people leave the country. The figures for the recent tax rise on high earners showed it had either raised nothing or reduced take.

    The pro man said the figures hadnt been released yet, so it was difficult to decide what they showed. He said that quite a few high earners had indeed been leaving the country recently, because they used to work for banks and had just been sacked, so they had gone back to whichever countries they came from. He also said he had made a study of people over the years who had declared they would leave the country if tax rose. When tax did rise, none of them left.
     
  18. MercyfulFate

    MercyfulFate New Member

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    Ever western nation should raise taxes in unison on the rich, maybe they'll all move to China.

    Which will show their true colors.
     
  19. Mensch1351

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    Well now -- here we have a definition of REAL Patriotism: As long as I get a bigger slice of the pie, I'm all FOR America. Cut my piece down and dog-gum-it, I'll take my companies overseas, lay off American workers and just may move out altogether! "God bless.............whatever country gives me the best deal," my home sweet home! As they say in Texas, "Sheeeeeeet!"
     
  20. Horrible

    Horrible New Member

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    Put an UT at the end and you've got it! Ie "sheeeeut boy, that dog don't hunt"
     
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