The Wall And The Male Revenge Fantasy

wallyj84

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I was going to write a post about cock size and legacy but before I made the post I watched a video on YouTube of a guy complaining about Mia Khalifa and Jenni Lee. The video was about how the two of them "hit the wall" losing their beauty/power and that there was no coming back for either of them. According to this video all women should behave and settle down ASAP, unless they want to end up like Mia and Jenni.

Basically a misogynist revenge fantasy of women being punished for not behaving in a way that these MRA men find appropriate.

It is stupid and not representative of reality, but the idea of "The Wall" is really common among all of the internet misogynist groups. They talk about it all the time. I find that kind of interesting.

What do you guys think of, "the wall"? Why do you think it is so popular with MRA types? Is there some truth to the idea or is it just bullshit?
 

marriedasian

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unfortunately this "wall" is very true (at least from my experience with women). even my wife agrees with me on this one. the variable here is that each women has their own true wall of when they hit it. my wife has told me many times that as women age, their value to men or to the dating market slowly diminishes. since we live in a social-media-instagram world, how you look seems to matter more now than ever even though it's all filtered and photo-shopped to no end. the men and women that grow up in this day and age are influenced as such and therefore will always chase the "pretty" first before anything else.

i don't think it's misogynist or MRA related at all. i think it's a blatant observation on their parts. i don't like how they use this so-called-fact to dictate their behavior towards women or to suggest how women should behave however at some point a woman will lose out to another woman who is younger and prettier. ask any women this and they will agree (if they're willing to admit it). men will simply go after what is more beautiful than not; just as women will go after men whom are more successful in life. it's just how we're hard-wired in nature.

the notion here is that if you are an older woman and you find a high-quality man, he will more than likely choose a younger version of that woman if the option is available (and most times it is available).

don't worry ladies, guys have their own "wall" too. unfortunately for men, they don't get the luxury to head towards it, it's put right in front of them right away and are forced to climb over it or remain in the friend-zone forever. that is a discussion for another day and another thread...
 

wallyj84

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unfortunately this "wall" is very true (at least from my experience with women). even my wife agrees with me on this one. the variable here is that each women has their own true wall of when they hit it. my wife has told me many times that as women age, their value to men or to the dating market slowly diminishes. since we live in a social-media-instagram world, how you look seems to matter more now than ever even though it's all filtered and photo-shopped to no end. the men and women that grow up in this day and age are influenced as such and therefore will always chase the "pretty" first before anything else.

i don't think it's misogynist or MRA related at all. i think it's a blatant observation on their parts. i don't like how they use this so-called-fact to dictate their behavior towards women or to suggest how women should behave however at some point a woman will lose out to another woman who is younger and prettier. ask any women this and they will agree (if they're willing to admit it). men will simply go after what is more beautiful than not; just as women will go after men whom are more successful in life. it's just how we're hard-wired in nature.

the notion here is that if you are an older woman and you find a high-quality man, he will more than likely choose a younger version of that woman if the option is available (and most times it is available).

don't worry ladies, guys have their own "wall" too. unfortunately for men, they don't get the luxury to head towards it, it's put right in front of them right away and are forced to climb over it or remain in the friend-zone forever. that is a discussion for another day and another thread...

There is some truth to the idea of a wall, but not like what these guys are talking. They act like it is a hard wall that hits all women once they hit 29. That is ridiculous.
 

GorillaHorse

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Men and women age at comparable rates. However, our ideas of feminine beauty are tied to youth much more often than our ideas of masculine beauty are. Also, the general perceived worth of men is tied less to their youth and much less to their beauty than their female counterparts.

There is the biological reality of menopause which typically comes earlier than ED and is more of a "hard wall" in terms of being able to reproduce. Much more of a reality than the subjective nature of beauty. But many will argue that isn't even relevant.

I'm not sure about people becoming more superficial. It is more obvious now than ever before with the oversharing of visual content. But we are also becoming more accepting of other cultures and ways of life at the same time.

I don't know who Mia Khalifa is and I don't know who Jenni Lee is. I guess I should be happy I don't. If a woman is worth no more than her visual presence, I feel bad for her, but really don't care if that perceived beauty goes away. There will always be pretty women to look at. Being more than just pretty should be important, but I don't think we are there yet as a society. Most people don't care what these pieces of meat say, they just want something to look at.
 
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marriedasian

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There is some truth to the idea of a wall, but not like what these guys are talking. They act like it is a hard wall that hits all women once they hit 29. That is ridiculous.

that's just it though, it's not ridiculous. there is empirical data from many dating websites that show that men are replying more to women in their 20s than any other age and a steady decline starting at age 30. i don't think the term "wall" is meant in a literal sense more so of the fact that the easy coasting is no longer working.

my wife has a few girlfriends in their mid-to-late 30s who cannot get a boyfriend to save their lives. they're pretty successful in their careers and are quite independent, and even not too bad on the eyes, however men are just avoiding them left and right, plus any dates they go on never turns into anything steady. i've spoken to two of these ladies and they hate the fact that they're competing against these dumb 24-year-olds that is bending over on a whim. seems any good high-quality man is either looking to just fuck around or extremely picky about their women and being 30+ in age is not to their advantage.
 

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I’m about to be 51 and I’m fighting off men with a stick.

What did happen for me at around 40 was vapid dudes who were hung up on looks, dick size, breast size, popular beauty ideals, and some idea that a) wolf theory was correct and b) it applied to humans (hahahaaha) disappeared form my life.
 

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I don’t like this thread purely because of the revenge/MRA aspect and who the OP is; however, it is interesting in some aspects.

If a woman is being judged purely on sexual worth and ability to reproduce, then sure we hit a “wall”. Lots of women call it the time when we kind of become invisible. Men stop pursuing us at the same rate (except really young men who crave our sexual expertise), drinks stop being sent to our tables, catcalls stop on the street, etc.

At first, it’s an adjustment. But then it’s nice. I’m no longer just a sexual object. I’m valued for myself. Its not a loss of power, it feels like a gain in power. When I was younger, my sexuality seemed like an obstacle that had to be overcome at times, now my womanhood is stronger than ever. I feel sexier than ever, but it’s completely under my control now. I choose when to wield it. Otherwise, I’m just more comfortable and content and better than ever. I wouldn’t choose youth again.
 

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This doesn't sound like a well thought out theory on their parts. Do they feel the same way about men in porn, who are less successful monetarily speaker, tend to have shorter careers, and usually are replaced by the time they are thirty and have nothing to put on their resume? How do they feel about women like Jenna Jameson who have retired from acting in porn, but still play an active, and very lucrative, role in the industry?

I do think that men pursue women less as they age, but its more likely related to men of that age already being in a committed relationship.
 

wallyj84

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Men and women age at comparable rates. However, our ideas of feminine beauty are tied to youth much more often than our ideas of masculine beauty are. Also, the general perceived worth of men is tied less to their youth and much less to their beauty than their female counterparts.

There is the biological reality of menopause which typically comes earlier than ED and is more of a "hard wall" in terms of being able to reproduce. Much more of a reality than the subjective nature of beauty. But many will argue that isn't even relevant.

I'm not sure about people becoming more superficial. It is more obvious now than ever before with the oversharing of visual content. But we are also becoming more accepting of other cultures and ways of life at the same time.

I don't know who Mia Khalifa is and I don't know who Jenni Lee is. I guess I should be happy I don't. If a woman is worth no more than her visual presence, I feel bad for her, but really don't care if that perceived beauty goes away. There will always be pretty women to look at. Being more than just pretty should be important, but I don't think we are there yet as a society. Most people don't care what these pieces of meat say, they just want something to look at.

Mia Khalifa and Jenni Lee are both former porn stars. Jenni Lee is currently homeless from what I've read online, but I don't think that has anything to do with the wall or anything like that. Mia Khalifa is working as a sports journalist and engaged. Khalifa is still in her 20s I think, so she isn't even old enough to have hit the wall. I'm sure both of them have value beyond their looks.

I don't disagree with anything you wrote.
 

wallyj84

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I don’t like this thread purely because of the revenge/MRA aspect and who the OP is; however, it is interesting in some aspects.

If a woman is being judged purely on sexual worth and ability to reproduce, then sure we hit a “wall”. Lots of women call it the time when we kind of become invisible. Men stop pursuing us at the same rate (except really young men who crave our sexual expertise), drinks stop being sent to our tables, catcalls stop on the street, etc.

At first, it’s an adjustment. But then it’s nice. I’m no longer just a sexual object. I’m valued for myself. Its not a loss of power, it feels like a gain in power. When I was younger, my sexuality seemed like an obstacle that had to be overcome at times, now my womanhood is stronger than ever. I feel sexier than ever, but it’s completely under my control now. I choose when to wield it. Otherwise, I’m just more comfortable and content and better than ever. I wouldn’t choose youth again.

I obviously don't care for MRA guys or their world view. Calling it a revenge fantasy is just being honest about what all that wall talk is.

Thank you for giving your perspective on the wall.
 

wallyj84

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This doesn't sound like a well thought out theory on their parts. Do they feel the same way about men in porn, who are less successful monetarily speaker, tend to have shorter careers, and usually are replaced by the time they are thirty and have nothing to put on their resume? How do they feel about women like Jenna Jameson who have retired from acting in porn, but still play an active, and very lucrative, role in the industry?

I do think that men pursue women less as they age, but its more likely related to men of that age already being in a committed relationship.

Of course they don't go after male porn stars. They don't hate men and aren't looking to control them.

Men definitely pursue women less as they age. I think it is due to a decrease in sex drive, a lack of interest in a relationship and as you say already being in a relationship. I have had multiple chances at relationships in the past few years, but haven't pulled the trigger on any of them just because I'm tired and don't want to be bothered with someone else in my life.
 

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Of course they don't go after male porn stars. They don't hate men and aren't looking to control them.

Men definitely pursue women less as they age. I think it is due to a decrease in sex drive, a lack of interest in a relationship and as you say already being in a relationship. I have had multiple chances at relationships in the past few years, but haven't pulled the trigger on any of them just because I'm tired and don't want to be bothered with someone else in my life.

I'm not sure if men pursue women less because of a decreased sex drive. I'm sure at some point it happens, but I think it would be considerably older than 30 or older (mine hasn't decreased). But if that is what is happening, then it sounds like its the men, and not the women, who are hitting a wall.
 

wallyj84

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that's just it though, it's not ridiculous. there is empirical data from many dating websites that show that men are replying more to women in their 20s than any other age and a steady decline starting at age 30. i don't think the term "wall" is meant in a literal sense more so of the fact that the easy coasting is no longer working.

my wife has a few girlfriends in their mid-to-late 30s who cannot get a boyfriend to save their lives. they're pretty successful in their careers and are quite independent, and even not too bad on the eyes, however men are just avoiding them left and right, plus any dates they go on never turns into anything steady. i've spoken to two of these ladies and they hate the fact that they're competing against these dumb 24-year-olds that is bending over on a whim. seems any good high-quality man is either looking to just fuck around or extremely picky about their women and being 30+ in age is not to their advantage.

I honestly think anyone that is single and doesn't want to be, just has their standards too high.

Your wife's friends could probably get boyfriends fairly easily if they were willing to date less successful men, Smalls or even just older men.
 
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wallyj84

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I'm not sure if men pursue women less because of a decreased sex drive. I'm sure at some point it happens, but I think it would be considerably older than 30 or older (mine hasn't decreased). But if that is what is happening, then it sounds like its the men, and not the women, who are hitting a wall.

Would losing your sex drive count as hitting the wall? I feel like hitting the wall would be about reaching a point where others stop wanting you, not where you stop wanting others.
 

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Would losing your sex drive count as hitting the wall? I feel like hitting the wall would be about reaching a point where others stop wanting you, not where you stop wanting others.

Well, that's obviously how the guys you referred to would describe a wall, but I don't think anyone else is that specific when using the phrase. Hitting a wall just means reaching a point that you can't progress beyond or at which point the returns of your effort are diminished. The phrase is used to describe all sorts of things like lifting weights or running for example, when the person running or lifting weights is unable to get any more results from their effort. Using it to describe a man who has lost his sex drive to the point that he no longer pursues people he is sexually interested in is an appropriate use of the phrase.
 

wallyj84

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Well, that's obviously how the guys you referred to would describe a wall, but I don't think anyone else is that specific when using the phrase. Hitting a wall just means reaching a point that you can't progress beyond or at which point the returns of your effort are diminished. The phrase is used to describe all sorts of things like lifting weights or running for example, when the person running or lifting weights is unable to get any more results from their effort. Using it to describe a man who has lost his sex drive to the point that he no longer pursues people he is sexually interested in is an appropriate use of the phrase.

I was looking at it from the MRA perspective, but you're right.
 

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I honestly think anyone that is single and doesn't want to be, just has their standards too high.

you're 100% absolutely correct in the logic of what you're saying however the context of "hitting the wall" means the exact opposite of your statement; as in standards are high and no compromises.

it is used in a context where you get what you want and don't settle for lower standards. women who are in there 20s and pretty can have their pick of any man they want as most men will flaunt to them therefore these women do not have to settle and can keep their standards very high and get men that matches those standards too. when they hit the "wall" and have not captured a high-quality man, their ability to pick from the litter of men diminishes as they're not as valuable anymore resulting in either being single longer/forever or lowering their standards to find a man to settle down with.

Your wife's friends could probably get boyfriends fairly easily if they were willing to date less successful men, Smalls or even just older men.

again, you're 100% absolutely correct... all they have to do is lower their standards however they won't. they are successful women and demand high-quality men however their value has diminished due to their age and men who matches their high standards are not interested in them at all... i know, it's funny how life works but it's the sad truth and i get to see it played out in real-time whenever i see and talk to those friends of my wife.

the reason lower-quality men get mad is that women in their 20s won't touch them. they're left out of the equation and not even considered then after those women hit their wall, they lower their standards, and are now willing to date these lower-quality men but these lower-quality men have now gained value through success and no longer want these "older" women who dismissed them when they were "younger". the men have become salty and now that they are "better" men, they want younger and prettier women in their 20s instead... hence we see old rich guys with young-hot girls.

it's very ironic but both the women and men perpetuate this cycle and it's never-ending. :)
 

wallyj84

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you're 100% absolutely correct in the logic of what you're saying however the context of "hitting the wall" means the exact opposite of your statement; as in standards are high and no compromises.

it is used in a context where you get what you want and don't settle for lower standards. women who are in there 20s and pretty can have their pick of any man they want as most men will flaunt to them therefore these women do not have to settle and can keep their standards very high and get men that matches those standards too. when they hit the "wall" and have not captured a high-quality man, their ability to pick from the litter of men diminishes as they're not as valuable anymore resulting in either being single longer/forever or lowering their standards to find a man to settle down with.



again, you're 100% absolutely correct... all they have to do is lower their standards however they won't. they are successful women and demand high-quality men however their value has diminished due to their age and men who matches their high standards are not interested in them at all... i know, it's funny how life works but it's the sad truth and i get to see it played out in real-time whenever i see and talk to those friends of my wife.

the reason lower-quality men get mad is that women in their 20s won't touch them. they're left out of the equation and not even considered then after those women hit their wall, they lower their standards, and are now willing to date these lower-quality men but these lower-quality men have now gained value through success and no longer want these "older" women who dismissed them when they were "younger". the men have become salty and now that they are "better" men, they want younger and prettier women in their 20s instead... hence we see old rich guys with young-hot girls.

it's very ironic but both the women and men perpetuate this cycle and it's never-ending. :)

Dating does get harder as you get older. I don't think that it is due to the wall so much as it is the most desirable people being off the market.

I don't really disagree with you, though. There is truth to what you're saying.
 

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Dating also gets harder as you get older because you are typically dealing with people who think they have "seen it all". Older people seem to be more confident that their perspective is right and there isn't much new for you to show them. They are typically less excited about meeting new people.

At the same time, I think it gets easier to have one-night-stands or casual sex relationships with more mature people because they go into it knowing what to expect and knowing what they want to get out of it.

Some of the younger generation is just awkward as fuck and you can't even conversate with them. They just swipe right and fuck strangers I guess lol.
 
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wallyj84

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I think I need to stop watching these MRA videos. Now I'm getting links to vids of women that are happily hypergamous. This is becoming too much. I'm starting to just hate everyone.