The War in Iraq is Real

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by HazelGod, May 29, 2008.

  1. HazelGod

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    The conflict our jingoist administration has embroiled us in is not just segments on the cable news channels, and the players involved aren't just numbers and statistics.

    It's affecting real people in this country, and in many others...including, obviously, the one we invaded. It doesn't take a Ph.D. in Economics to figure out what this perpetual instability has done to certain commodities markets, nor who has profited from all this bloodshed.

    How many more goodbyes like this one are you willing to stand for?

    Come this November, you know what to do.
     
  2. anettenorge

    anettenorge New Member

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    My brother is in Iraq, I've said that goodbye. Have you?
    However, George Bush did not make my brother walk into that recruiters office.

    You get a lot of whiners in low motivation units like the National Guard or non-combat MOSs, but there is a rampant feeling among Marines and elite units like the Airborne (which my brother is in), Rangers etc, which is one of eagerness, 'chomping at the bit' as I've heard him describe it.

    There is always the exception even in those units but believe me they are the exception indeed. These units are chock full of boys, mostly white(the study Democrats in the Senate ordered to determine if minorities were over-represented in the combat arms recently proved just the opposite-that whites-who make up 56% of the US population, make up 86% of the combat arms) middle-class, rural and suburban who joined the military for adventure or to 'kill hadjii' as they often say. They eagerly volunteer for 'high speed' jobs in the combat arms.

    It's known as the 'crazy white boy syndrome'

    The liberal media has done a good job of shielding the public from this mentality, which the troops themselves describe with such slogans as "I'd rather live a day with the lions, than a thousand years with the lambs".

    They frequently describe the world in such terms as "there are two types of people in this world, wolves and sheep, we are the wolves" and other variations on that theme.

    The anit-military anti-republican media has convinced the world that American military personnel commit suicide at frightening rates, often citing statistics that their rate has doubled.

    Guess what, even now, even at the increased rate, they are still LOWER than that of the equivalent civilian age group and lower than the overall national rate.

    Farmers on the other hand commit suicide at 4 times the national average...where are the street protests and bumper stickers over that?

    The anti-war movement is a neatly packaged, marketable, trendy 'scene', full of old hippies reliving their youthful rebelliousness side by side with ipoded gen x and y'ers who think being anti-war at all costs is an essential part of their persona'.

    Military boys (and women) despise them.

    Some guys in my brother's unit took a pic of themselves hoisting an American flag Iwo Jima style last year and put a cardboard caricature of Harry Reid trying to place a white surrender flag on top of it behind their back and mailed it to his congressional office and a big hand painted sign to 'code pink' that said "we don't want your love and we don't need your respect'

    In other words your 'compassion' is often met, by the 'high speed' crowd- the ones actually tracking down suicide bombers and other scum- with contempt and disdain.
     
  3. HazelGod

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    So your contention is that we should remain involved in this conflict for the sake of not disappointing our "high-speed" soldiers who are eager to "kill hadji?"
     
  4. bek2335

    bek2335 New Member

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    Good question, HazelGod.
     
  5. D_Fiona_Farvel

    D_Fiona_Farvel Account Disabled

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    My dad and I were discussing the election and the wars on Sunday, and it seems that unlike in WWII, or even Vietnam, this sort of imagery no longer resonates with the larger U.S. society. There's a disconnect, levels, or compartmentalization... something, that separates what happens to everyone serving in Iraq and Afghanistan, what happens to our Vets, and then what happens with everyone else.

    I do not feel there's a parts of a whole community mentality in the U.S. any longer - rather it is every person for themself and their unit. It is like there is an inability to relate or empathize or sacrifice, on a national level, for the betterment of the country.

    Not sure if this is a growing cynicism within myself about the election, and how people will vote - but, I think few care and even fewer are personally impacted by the wars beyond fuel prices. I fear that the wrong candidate, one that doesn't see a problem with the current path, will win, and that scares me because I feel the one we are on is so very wrong.

    Anettenorge -
    I know several people serving who are against the war - they serve because it is their job. Indeed, I will be one of those people. Being against the war, and finding fault with those who are hawkish, does not make one against the soldier - that is a totally fallacy and needs to stop, so we can have open discussions about the quagmire we are in.
     
  6. Pokey4fun

    Pokey4fun New Member

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    Right and Easy are not the same thing
     
  7. simcha

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    Yeah, I want to read that book that just came out from the old press secretary. It'll just confirm what most of us knew all along, that this war is a sham. Let's get the party responsible out of government.
     
  8. anettenorge

    anettenorge New Member

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    Is that what I said?

    Did I even approach the subject of the war itself/it's justifications??

    No, I was directly the addressing the use of goodbye photos of volunteer adults doing their job, by strangers to post on the internet to bolster their anti-war arguments.

    I was describing a world of eagerness for war that is not covered by the media and a resentment against the people who use them for the opposite cause.

    I respect your views of the war, I am not here to change your opinion or demonize you for disagreeing with it, but I abhor tactics such using photos of people you do not know for your own political statement.
     
  9. sargon20

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    The war is a sham, the entire Bush Administration is a sham. Today only thanks to a court order were they forced to admit global warming after years of suppresion.

    US issues climate assessment forced by court order | Reuters

    The war has is no sacrifice in any way to most Americans. It's free. There is no draft. There is no tax increase to pay for the war. So there are no marches in the streets. Reminds me of an old Star Trek episode were the war was painless and bloodless hence it went on forever.

    Washington has become the home of the permanent campaign, a game of endless politicking based on the manipulation of shades of truth, partial truths, twisting of the truth, and spin. Governing has become an appendage of politics rather than the other way around, with electoral victory and the control of power as the sole measures of success. That means shaping the narrative before it shapes you. Candor and honesty are pushed to the side in the battle to win the latest news cycle…
     
    #9 sargon20, May 29, 2008
    Last edited: May 29, 2008
  10. anettenorge

    anettenorge New Member

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    All I'm saying is don't cry when you're called on to do your job.

    To quote my brother again - Don't join the fucking rugby team because they give away free lunches after the game on saturday and then piss and moan when the coach tells you to get on the field!

    He's also said -Don't become a firefighter and then protest when you're sent into a burning house.

    Pretty good common sense don't you think.

    The only people in the military now that were in when this war started either joined after the war started or re-upped during the war!
     
  11. D_Fiona_Farvel

    D_Fiona_Farvel Account Disabled

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    All sides use images of the wars in an attempt to legitimize their position. So, if you are going to find fault with war opponents, find it with the proponents as well.

    My problem is, I do not think either side really cares - the image is the thing, not the human issue.
     
  12. anettenorge

    anettenorge New Member

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    Since this is going to descend into another (in my best Carl Kasel) voice -'George Bush destroys the known universe'- I want to ask this question, out of pure curiosity:

    How is he simultaneously the biggest idiot ever to sit in the white house AND the worlds greatest criminal mastermind?

    I've actually witnessed Bush hating 9-11 conspiracy theorists arguing the latter against some other Bush haters who were arguing the former and some Bush haters arguing for both, it was quite entertaining.
     
  13. Bbucko

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    The only justification for war is self-preservation. By that standard, the Iraqi invasion was a brutal, murderous scam, as is the occupation.
     
  14. Bbucko

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    Odd word choice, Annette. What's so entertaining about hate?
     
  15. invisibleman

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    I think that topics like this are a means of aggravating a sore. It doesn't do anything but fester and infect.

    I think that an impulsive Bush Administration didn't get the intelligence right. And since when is Iraq Afghanistan? Huh? Bush went to Yale and didn't learn geography? And people want to blame liberalism on that?
    What-ever. People listen to Rush Limbaugh too much. It is "liberals" fault. :eek: And the conservatives are in office. Wow. :rolleyes:

    Americans are looking dumb as hell for voting Bu$h twice. That is what it looks like. And you wonder how your gas prices are escalating? You cannot blame liberalism on that. And Bu$h is laughing his rich arse to the bank. He can leave American soil rich and wealthy going off to other places. Leaving you struggling trying to get gas. What doesn't affect Bush isn't a major concern to him.

    Maybe you really, really need to check yourself and whose pocketbook$ are getting fatter from all of this.

    Americans NEED more control of their government. Americans need more involvement in the intelligence. How do we EVEN know who started what? How do we EVEN know whether we caused 9-11 to happen? I know that Americans are not kept in the know about what our government does.
     
  16. invisibleman

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    Who said that the rich and the powerful cannot be stupid? That should be the REAL question. You think about it.

     
  17. anettenorge

    anettenorge New Member

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    Showing images of new schools, hospitals and water facilities being built and terrorists being captured are not the same as people standing on the street corner with a picture of a stranger protesting his mission, who died while doing his mission, his job is his mission, his mission his job, you cannot separate the two.

    I have an interesting letter I will post in a minute, not to further any argument, it's just a very interesting viewpoint that is never heard or seen by many. This is the kind of soldier the liberal media will never give a forum to.

    It was written in a letter by the team leader of a SpecOps squad that was embedded in my brothers unit for a short period of time, to oversee some intel gathering while performing a double duty of making sure some media people (the same ones distorting the story on the ground) did not get captured and beheaded.
     
  18. invisibleman

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    Oh boy.
     
    #18 invisibleman, May 30, 2008
    Last edited: May 30, 2008
  19. D_Fiona_Farvel

    D_Fiona_Farvel Account Disabled

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    Are cliches not your thing? :biggrin1:
     
  20. anettenorge

    anettenorge New Member

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    OK here is the letter:



    I'm no longer baby-sitting the pukes from CNN and the canned hams from the networks, but have a combat mission coordinating a bunch of A teams, seeking, finding and rooting out the mostly non-Iraqis that are well-armed, well-paid (mostly with funds raised in the U.S. by 'untouchable' mosques and front organizations) and always waiting to wail for the press and then shoot some GI in the back in the midst of a crowd.

    The only reason the GIs are pissed (not demoralized) is that they cannot touch, must less waste, those taunting bags of shit that scream in their faces and riot on cue when they spot a camera man from ABC, BBC, CBS, CNN or NBC.

    If they did kill those cunts, then they know the next nightly news will be about how chaotic things are and how much the Iraqi people hate us.

    I saw a bunch of 19 year-olds from the 82nd Airborne not return fire coming from a mosque until they got a group of elderly civilians out of harm's way. The Iraqis saw this too.

    A bunch of bad guys used a group of women and children as human shields. The GIs surrounded them and negotiated their surrender fifteen hours later and when they discovered a three year-old girl had been injured by the big tough guy jihadist throwing her down a flight of stairs, the GIs called in a MedVac helicopter to take her and her mother to the nearest field hospital.

    The Iraqis watched it all, and there hasn't been a problem in that neighborhood since. How many such stories, and there are hundreds of them, never get reported in the 'fair and balanced' press? You know, nada.

    The civilians who have figured it out faster than anyone are the local teenagers.
    They participate less and less in the demonstrations and help keep us informed when a wannabe bad-ass shows up in the neighborhood.

    The younger kids are going back to school again, don't have to listen to some mullah rant about the Koran ten hours a day, and they get a hot meal.

    They see the same GIs who man the corner checkpoint, helping clear the playground, install new swingsets and create soccer fields. I watched a bunch of kids playing baseball in one playground, under the supervision of a couple of GIs from Oklahoma. They weren't very good but were having fun, probably more than most Little Leaguers

    The place is still a mess but most of it has been for years. But the Hospitals are open and are in the process of being brought into the 21stCentury. The MOs and visiting surgeons from home are teaching their docs new techniques and One American pharmaceutical company (you know, the kind that all the hippies like to scream about as greedy) donated enough medicine to stock 45 hospital pharmacies for a year.

    Safe water is more available.
    Electricity has been restored to pre-war levels but saboteurs keep cutting the lines. And The old Ba'ath big shots are upset because they can't get fuel for their private generators. One actually complained to General McKeirnan, who told him it was a rough world.

    The MPs are screening the 80,000 Iraqi police force and rehabbing the ones that weren't goons, shake-down artists or torturers like they did in East Berlin, Kosovo and Afghanistan.

    There are dual patrols of Iraqi cops and U.S./U.K./Polish MPs now in most of the larger cities. Basra has 3.5 million inhabitants.
    Mosul is a city of 2 million.
    Kirkuk has 1 million.

    How many and hundreds of other small towns have not had riots or shootings? The vast majority.

    I heard one doofus on MSNBC the other night talk about how the streets are still 'deadly' in an area that I know he has never been to and it is an area that has not had an attack in 8 months.

    The [MSNBC turd] is the same jerk who reported on the air that "dozens of GIs" were badly burned when two RPGs hit a truck belonging to an Engineer Battalion
    Three GIs received minor injuries (including the driver who burnt his hand) and three warriors of Allah were promptly sent to enjoy their 72 slave girls in Paradise. Hell of a way to get laid.

    A mosque in that shithole Fallujah blew up this morning as the the local imam- a creep named Fahlil (who was one of the biggest local loudmouths that frequently appeared on CNN)- was helping a Syrian Hamas member teach eight teenagers how to make belt bombs.

    Right away the local Feyhadeen propaganda group started wailing that the Americans hit it with a TOW missile (If they had there wouldn't have been any mosque left!) and the usual suspects took to the streets for CNN and BBC.

    One fool was dragging around a piece of tin with blood on it, claiming it was part of the missile.

    The cameras rolled and the idiot started repeating his story, then one of my guys asked him in Arabic where he had left the rag he usually wore around his face that made him look like a girl.

    He was a local leader of the Feyhadeen.

    We took the clown in custody and were asked rather indignantly by the twit from BBC if we were trying to shut up "the poor man who had seen his mosque and friends blown up."

    I told the airy-fairy who the raghead was and if he knew Arabic (which he obviously didn't) he'd know he was a Palestinian.

    I suggested we take him down to the local jail and we'd lock him and his cameraman in a cell with the "poor man" and they could interview him until we took him to headquarters. They declined the invitation.

    Guess what played on the Bullshit Broadcasting System that evening?
    Did the Americans blow up a mosque?
    See the poor man who is still in a state of shock over losing his mosque and relatives? Yep. Our friend the Palestinian.
     
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