Um, I'm not sure if that's what the other person was saying and that's not what I was saying. I also live in the Midwest, have done so all my life, and I'm Black and too tired to be marching all the time. I said vote and fight in whatever way you can (see my previous comment to the one you quoted). No one is saying all gays need to hit the streets, and I don't have any power to force you or anybody to do that. Maybe you're conflating my statements with ill sentiments you have about things outside of this thread?
Theres No Gold Star Gay Men In Gay Porn Anymore. The Rise Of Sexual Fluidity.
- Thread starter Marco Tony
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I'm sorry that happened to you, your cousins were really reaching using a thread online as gas to fuel their homophobia. I didn't say that people wouldn't and cannot use the fact that you can be gay and also do things that aren't gay as evidence for hate, i said it doesn't hold up. I would point them to the early posts in the "straight guys doing gay things thread" if they like using online forums for truthful evidence of human behavior.
Now I'm not saying I disagree completely with your last point about gay men having hetero sex and bragging about it, possibly adding to bi stigma, but I think it's important to note (and this is for the OP as well) one's sexuality is distinct from one's sexual orientation. The latter is a direction if you will, a label that is claimed for a multitude of reasons. Our actual sexuality is something much broader and encompasses the wide range of human sexual behavior (thoughts, fantasies, actions). Many people say they're straight and suck a dick here and there—you may say they aren't really straight but that's their identity. And sadly, MANY gay people lust after people exactly like that. Their straightness but willingness to do something gay is the desire. Now sure, there may be more specific terms with all this new lingo (hetero/homoflexible, bisexual but hetero-romantic, etc.) but at the end of the day, if I identify as gay, that's a personal decision, that's my truth and is warranted by what's in my heart. My sexuality might fully align with that or be a bit inconsistent, but that's ok. I'm not harming anyone per se in that action. If others see that as an issue with bisexual identity, that's on them. We have to stop projecting!
I was making a different point, not (mis)characterizing the points that you or others may have made.
BuckyD
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Jeffer I am really sorry for what happened to you in your family in Nigeria. I can't speak from personal experience but I can imagine its really hard transitioning between two such different cultures. Hopefully over time more and more places in the world will come to embrace an idea of basic human rights that does not exclude people because of their sexual choices. I know there are many places in the world where that has not yet happened but I do think the trend is in the right direction world wide.
JifariGrier
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I actually Wonder if these guys are really bisexual or if they're doing it for the money. Watching Angel Rivera eat pussy and have sex with women you can tell that he is really a homosexual and he's just doing the shit for clout just like when he speaks all that hip hop lingo. He doesn't know how to make love to a female and it's obvious.
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There was a key point made here. This entire discussion is largely a colloquial local concept fomented by the unique and very recent history of the US despite claims to be leading the world in human rights. My family on both sides occupied the North American continent from 1600, and in doing so were among those who unwittingly stepped all over the rights of indiginous people, used, discarded and forgotten in most rights and racial discussions. In Italy, for example, where Rome is the largest continually occupied city in history, and the Vatican has considerable influence, no one could care less if you're 100% gay, bi, straight, both, undeclared or otherwise. It boils down to the maturity of society. Consider that in our US culture that the most vile word is Fornication Under Consent of the King (FUCK that...). If you say "fuck you" in most cultures, the response would be "why, are you attracted to me, what?"
Too often the tendency of my native land is to universally declare in massive ignorance what is true for all of the universe. Imperialism at its finest. Living away for more than 10 years has absolutely changed my focus and perspective, seeing in 3D what before was black and white television regarding many realities.
My overall point here is that divisive attitudes are just that, and whether they are pro or anti-diversity, division is the first stage of disassembly.
Too often the tendency of my native land is to universally declare in massive ignorance what is true for all of the universe. Imperialism at its finest. Living away for more than 10 years has absolutely changed my focus and perspective, seeing in 3D what before was black and white television regarding many realities.
My overall point here is that divisive attitudes are just that, and whether they are pro or anti-diversity, division is the first stage of disassembly.
Jeffer2580
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Resulting to the bolded was literally useless at that point as everyone knows that those men ain't gay but 10$ is 10$ and anybody will do anything they don't feel comfortable in just to get by
Moreover, it's simple biology,if you are sexually attracted to more than one gender or sex,then it's obvious you ain't gay not accounting homoflexibility which comes in play when sleeping with the opposite sex because they "need" to but because they "want" to,notice the words "want" and "need",the former is an inherent desire,the latter is situational. Besides,labels exists for a reason,if not everyone would be going with the flow but we still need that to direct our lives in some way,shape or form, I don't think the folks who still hang on to the "gay" label know they can be sexually attracted to more than one gender or sex but only attracted romantically to the same gender,they are still bisexual just homoromantic bisexuals and them continuing to hang on to that "gay" label when it's obvious they get a hardon for both is damaging
Furthermore, you associated genitals with human sexuality,nah buddy.....phallophilia and vaginophillia are way different from sexual orientation. A straight man may like penises but he's not attracted to men,same way a gay man may like vaginas but he ain't attracted to women. They are both their respective sexual orientations because they are attracted to the gender and if that gender happens to bear the genitals that's not a common occurrence on whom they are attracted to,they may not care and still smash.
I'm just gonna go out of a limb here and say this "rEsPeCt hOw tHeY IdEnTiFy"... "until they don't identify how I see fit, for my narrative and then I will just say they are lying"
Jeffer2580
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Angel has actually said he's bisexual so yes he is bisexual
JifariGrier
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Ok....but it doesn't look like he knows what he's doing when he's with females IJS
I'm sure a lot of women could say that about a lot of men as well.
I don't really see the problem. You find a porm film and watch it. You like it or you don't like it. Gay porn has never been the preserve of only gay men. Porn actors don't really owe us anything. We don't pay them so why shoud we dictate where they themselves choose to perform.
I know being 'gay' is so special and 'brave' to some that they want to make it almost a religion but actually it's nothing more then preferring to hump people of your own sex. Nothing more 'special' then that.
I wonder what Jeff Stryker would say.
If we are going to feel cheated when an apparently non-gay person is performing as a gay person in porn then I suppose we have to also support the reverse and scream when an apparently gay person is portrayed as straight.
And based on THAT isn't it hypocritical for us to allow gay actors to play straight parts in movies and TV.
Neil Patrick Harris as Barney in How I Met Your Mother, Jane Lynch as Paula in The 40 Year Old Virgin, Jim Parsons as Sheldon Cooper.
Sure they are not boinking people on screen (well Barney sure) but their characters are absolutely straight.
And based on THAT isn't it hypocritical for us to allow gay actors to play straight parts in movies and TV.
Neil Patrick Harris as Barney in How I Met Your Mother, Jane Lynch as Paula in The 40 Year Old Virgin, Jim Parsons as Sheldon Cooper.
Sure they are not boinking people on screen (well Barney sure) but their characters are absolutely straight.
I dunno, I just get extremely similar vibes and parallels to complaining about this to homophobia and toxic social norms I've witnessed and experienced all my life.
It's exactly like how some straight men must gatekeep who is TRULY straight. Needing with absolute certainty that no one ever mislables themselves as 100% straight if said person ever did [insert action they consider "not-straight", no matter how benign].
Hard lines and pure black and white rarely exist. But people will bend themselves out of shape to make the world stay simple and easy, black and white. When someone does something that makes it seem there is gray, it is attacked so as to keep things "pure". The intention is to adhere to a standard but the outcome is destructive and toxic.
Like why does it matter if someone calls themselves straight and also like looking at dicks. Why does that bother someone so much? Your life literally never changes if that person suddenly calls themselves robosexual or something either. But most likely what it is, is that they are afraid that others may assume they do something similar. Which hits the core issue, they see themselves being potentially percieved as anything other than 100% straight and think it's bad. (Even though they will also have cognitive dissonance and claim they have absolutely no problems with homo or bisexuality)
When someone starts that talk, most people will rightfully call out how toxic it is. But here we have the same mentality but on the other end of the spectrum and people arent recognizing how it is the exact same toxicity but a different flavor.
I can understand if you wish the porn star were gold star but it doesnt change the performance. If you are falling for the actual porn star, this should be a wake up call that you are entangling your real life attraction to potential partners with actors making a film. It would be asinine to never watch any media of certain actor who usually stars in comedies again because they recently starred in a drama.
Basically, this is a problem when you blend fantasy and reality.
(And also literally no issue would arise if people stopped being SO INVOLVED in porn stars lives lol. I always am amused by how much people will dive into people who dont even know you exist's life and make judgements on them. No need to find out their love life, address, social status, rumors and so much more. If you never care about their lives outside of the film, you never will be disappointed! )
It's exactly like how some straight men must gatekeep who is TRULY straight. Needing with absolute certainty that no one ever mislables themselves as 100% straight if said person ever did [insert action they consider "not-straight", no matter how benign].
Hard lines and pure black and white rarely exist. But people will bend themselves out of shape to make the world stay simple and easy, black and white. When someone does something that makes it seem there is gray, it is attacked so as to keep things "pure". The intention is to adhere to a standard but the outcome is destructive and toxic.
Like why does it matter if someone calls themselves straight and also like looking at dicks. Why does that bother someone so much? Your life literally never changes if that person suddenly calls themselves robosexual or something either. But most likely what it is, is that they are afraid that others may assume they do something similar. Which hits the core issue, they see themselves being potentially percieved as anything other than 100% straight and think it's bad. (Even though they will also have cognitive dissonance and claim they have absolutely no problems with homo or bisexuality)
When someone starts that talk, most people will rightfully call out how toxic it is. But here we have the same mentality but on the other end of the spectrum and people arent recognizing how it is the exact same toxicity but a different flavor.
I can understand if you wish the porn star were gold star but it doesnt change the performance. If you are falling for the actual porn star, this should be a wake up call that you are entangling your real life attraction to potential partners with actors making a film. It would be asinine to never watch any media of certain actor who usually stars in comedies again because they recently starred in a drama.
Basically, this is a problem when you blend fantasy and reality.
(And also literally no issue would arise if people stopped being SO INVOLVED in porn stars lives lol. I always am amused by how much people will dive into people who dont even know you exist's life and make judgements on them. No need to find out their love life, address, social status, rumors and so much more. If you never care about their lives outside of the film, you never will be disappointed! )
Exactly - historically this has how rights have been assigned - to those inside the tent, who are part of the wider group. Rights for all not just the ones we like.
Firstly "You referenced something in para 4 without citing it. Could you let me know where it's from?" -
Yes its at the top of the web page I sent you to originally, containing the list of rights. The introductory paragraph.
All I was saying was hey we should ALL globally have some basic human rights and look heres good place to start.
You've blown it out of all proportion, telling me how callous and uncaring I am being for thinking that 0.55% of the worlds population don't matter and on and on it goes.
You have been patronising, sarcastic and downright rude in some parts to someone who was simply floating an idea.
Can't be bothered mate. You are way too much hard work. I'm out.
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Has anyone broached the subject of "straight" porn stars doing gay scenes? And I do believe in gay porn actors doing "straight for pay". Having sex on camera is their "career" and how they make a living.
my friend, we likely won't agree on whether you can be gay, that is be attracted to men, and still have sex with women. This whole thread started with the question of gay pornstars having sex with women, or women and men. My point is if straight guys can do it for money or popularity, so too can gay men. And they can still identify as gay. Not that I think everyone would do "anything they don't feel comfortable in just to get by," but some do. I have come to see orientation as more of a label, a direction people use to describe the pattern of their romantic feelings. And this is historically truthful since the whole idea of sexual orientation/labels as an identity is something society didn't even become a thing until the late 18th century, giving weight to the fact that labels, particularly as it pertains to the complex thing of human sexual behavior and social identities, really aren't always necessary... but maybe for you, it is.
I will add, I never said commented on attraction, I brought up sexuality as related to one's actions, thoughts, and fantasies, basically their sexual expression as humans. And I'm also not exclusively associating sexuality with genitalia per se. I was using dick and pussy given the context of the thread relating to gay men having sex with someone with a vagina (thus being categorized as not gay), but you're right, terms referring to gender are the more appropriate way to discuss sexuality, not the body parts. The point you make is interesting and likely proves my point. You said a gay man may like vaginas but not be attracted to women. Gay men can like vaginas, for a multitude of reasons, and still be gay because that's who they are/how they identify/ the way they orient themselves. They stick to men, they don't have to be attracted to or want a REAL relationship with a woman. Now if there are bisexual men out there masquerading as gay, that's one (problematic) thing, but gay men expressing a range of sexual behaviors with folks that aren't men is another and that is what I have been explaining as a truth.
This was a lot of effort for an online forum, so I won't be engaging further, but I wish y'all wisdom and critical thinking
