This is a "Real" Death Panel

maxcok

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Posts
7,153
Media
0
Likes
125
Points
83
Location
Elsewhere
Gender
Male
Oh, I got it, I just didn't want to come back with any "As god is my witness..." lines. :wink: Besides, she wouldn't have known what to do with a turnip either if there were no one there to cook it for her.

I thought it was radishes, btw, but my memory is hazy. I grow those in abundance - the hotter the better!
It's been awhile for me too, but I think she still had Mammy at that point and Prissy too, not that she'd be much help in the kitchen. Don't underestimate Miss S, she may have been shallow and selfish, but when push came to shove, she was mightily resourceful.

I think you're right about the radish, in the novel at least, though I don't recall if it's identified as anything but a root in the film. Sorry if I misled you. :redface: At any rate, "As God is my witness, I shall never eat turnips again!" just sounds and scans better. :wink:
 

phillyhangin

Experimental Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Posts
207
Media
3
Likes
19
Points
103
Location
Philadelphia, PA
Sexuality
60% Gay, 40% Straight
Gender
Male
I think you're right about the radish, in the novel at least, though I don't recall if it's identified as anything but a root in the film. Sorry if I misled you. :redface: At any rate, "As God is my witness, I shall never eat turnips again!" just sounds and scans better. :wink:
Don't worry, it wasn't misleading at all; I don't think the film identified it either. Somehow "radishes" kept popping into my head (maybe because I'm prepping my garden) and that caused me to doubt my already doubtful memory for those things. Existential angst and all that. :wink: But yes, "turnips" definitely works better in that line.

But back to the "death panels" topic, my position is that while health insurance is not a right, health care is (thanks to the whole life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness business). Since everyone benefits from a healthy society, preventive health care is best treated as a public good, because while everyone benefits from it, the market has a hard time assigning a price to that benefit. If the market can't price it, the market can't distribute it efficiently, and that creates an unnecessary drag on the economy.

However, in light of all of the other factors converging on us - peak oil, financial collapse, water and food shortages, etc. - we might not have to worry about who's paying for preventive care after all; we might be worrying about survival instead.
 

maxcok

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Posts
7,153
Media
0
Likes
125
Points
83
Location
Elsewhere
Gender
Male
^ Agreed to all the above, as the Corporatist Borg finishes off the golden goose (consumers) in a final greedy, desperate grab for short term profits, completely unconcerned with the consequences, completely oblivious to impending disasters, some occuring as a direct result, some occurring naturally (the latter unexpected and unforseen by all but the most prescient).

Meanwhile, . . . here ya go. :biggrin2: If you ask me, it looks like a parsnip.
 
Last edited:

stratedude

Legendary Member
Gold
Platinum Gold
Joined
Jun 28, 2007
Posts
2,383
Media
16
Likes
1,076
Points
583
Location
Ohio
Sexuality
99% Straight, 1% Gay
Gender
Male
This is just my opinion but i would love to hear some of you guys offer up a logical argument to persuade me to think otherwise:

Anything that requires concessions on the part of another individual in any form, including money, labor, material or property of any kind - cannot be considered a "RIGHT".

Healthcare requires money and/or labor of another individual. You can't make anyone do anything. Therefore healthcare can never legitimately be considered a right. It is a SERVICE. And it you get it for labor it is a BENEFIT. And if you ever get it for free it is a PRIVILEGE.
 

D_Davy_Downspout

Account Disabled
Joined
Dec 5, 2004
Posts
1,136
Media
0
Likes
18
Points
183
This is just my opinion but i would love to hear some of you guys offer up a logical argument to persuade me to think otherwise:

Anything that requires concessions on the part of another individual in any form, including money, labor, material or property of any kind - cannot be considered a "RIGHT".

Healthcare requires money and/or labor of another individual. You can't make anyone do anything. Therefore healthcare can never legitimately be considered a right. It is a SERVICE. And it you get it for labor it is a BENEFIT. And if you ever get it for free it is a PRIVILEGE.

Money made by those who can afford healthcare is made at the concession of those providing that money, or the labor that earns that money. Your thoughts are not consistent.
 

maxcok

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Posts
7,153
Media
0
Likes
125
Points
83
Location
Elsewhere
Gender
Male
Hey Stratedude! Do you think that shouting out your incongruous point in giant bold angry red letters lends any credence to your argument or makes it more likely that anyone will take you seriously?



So you're looking to be persuaded? LOLOLOL!!!
 

phillyhangin

Experimental Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Posts
207
Media
3
Likes
19
Points
103
Location
Philadelphia, PA
Sexuality
60% Gay, 40% Straight
Gender
Male
Anything that requires concessions on the part of another individual in any form, including money, labor, material or property of any kind - cannot be considered a "RIGHT".

Healthcare requires money and/or labor of another individual. You can't make anyone do anything. Therefore healthcare can never legitimately be considered a right. It is a SERVICE. And it you get it for labor it is a BENEFIT. And if you ever get it for free it is a PRIVILEGE.
That's only if you focus on the short term. In the long term, a healthy population benefits everyone - including business owners - through increased productivity, fewer sick days, less chance of infectious diseases spreading to you or the ones you love, and so on. If some people get healthcare and others don't, those that don't create a drag on the economy that hurts everybody - not to mention that it negates the large-scale benefits listed above. Since everyone benefits from everyone getting preventive healthcare, but the market can't correctly price that benefit (called a "market failure"), the only way to ensure that everyone gets healthcare - and that the benefits to everyone (including you) are fully realized - is to make it a public good.

As to your argument that "you can't make anyone do anything," well, that's true as far as it goes. However, as sinwin said:

Money made by those who can afford healthcare is made at the concession of those providing that money, or the labor that earns that money.
So, you don't have a right to the money that you use to pay for your personal healthcare either. You only have that money because of the goodwill of other people, and it's not unreasonable for those other people to expect you to contribute your fair share to something that benefits everyone; without their goodwill, you'd be destitute.
 

phillyhangin

Experimental Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Posts
207
Media
3
Likes
19
Points
103
Location
Philadelphia, PA
Sexuality
60% Gay, 40% Straight
Gender
Male
Listen people, if you are at the point where you are literally arguing that people should die based on a semantic interpretation of what is a right, you need to examine who you are as a person.
Exactly. One would think that concern for one's fellow human beings would trump personal greed, but apparently, no; the philosophy seems to be "As long as it's not affecting me personally, everyone else can go to hell." Unfortunately, that fails to take into account that what happens to one person can affect a whole lot of other people - especially when you're talking about something like an infectious disease that goes untreated because someone can't afford healthcare.

But, hey, as long as some people are making a profit, who cares how many people die from preventable causes, right? :rolleyes:
 

phillyhangin

Experimental Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Posts
207
Media
3
Likes
19
Points
103
Location
Philadelphia, PA
Sexuality
60% Gay, 40% Straight
Gender
Male
^ Agreed to all the above, as the Corporatist Borg finishes off the golden goose (consumers) in a final greedy, desperate grab for short term profits, completely unconcerned with the consequences, completely oblivious to impending disasters, some occuring as a direct result, some occurring naturally (the latter unexpected and unforseen by all but the most prescient).
Sad but true. However much I despair sometimes, I still don't think that "resistance is futile"; it's just frustrating.

If you ask me, it looks like a parsnip.
You're right, it does look like a parsnip. Then again, after a certain point, so many things do... :wink: