Three Ring Circus

Discussion in 'Politics' started by B_starinvestor, Mar 17, 2009.

  1. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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  2. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    dem·a·gogue

    Function:noun

    Etymology:Greek dēmagōgos, from dēmos people (perhaps akin to Greek daiesthai to divide) + agōgos leading, from agein to lead — more at tide, agentDate:1648

    1 : a leader who makes use of popular prejudices and false claims and promises in order to gain power

    2 : a leader championing the cause of the common people in ancient times

    demagogue - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

    In television advertisements last fall, Mr. Obama criticized his Republican rival for the presidency, Senator John McCain of Arizona, for proposing to tax all employer-provided health benefits. The benefits have long been tax-free, regardless of how generous they are or how much an employee earns. The advertisements did not point out that Mr. McCain, in exchange, wanted to give all families a tax credit to subsidize the purchase of coverage.
    At the time, even some Obama supporters said privately that he might come to regret his position if he won the election; in effect, they said, he was potentially giving up an important option to help finance his ambitious health care agenda to reduce medical costs and to expand coverage to the 46 million uninsured Americans. Now that Mr. Obama has begun the health debate, several advisers say that while he will not propose changing the tax-free status of employee health benefits, neither will he oppose it if Congress does so.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/15/us/politics/15health.html?_r=1
     
  3. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    yep
     
  4. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    Star! I can't believe you've STOOPED to using a legitimate news source like The New York Times!


    p.s. What Obama is doing is: slowly deconstructing, dismantling the old broken America, bit by bit, piece by piece - the America that stopped working during the past 8 years! And quietly putting in it's place a brave new America! Where healthcare is a right - and unwinnable war monies are shifted from Iraq to rebuilding our failing roads and parks and schools! - where water is CLEAN and women have control over their own bodies and gays can openly serve their country in uniform AND "TELL"! - where everybody gladly pitches a little something into the center pot to help their fellow man who's fallen on hard times! - Yes, we can! - where we don't judge each other by skin color and the U.S. Constitution is a living, breathing document! Not hampered with an "originalist' interpretation like that damned Scalia seems to thinks! Si se puede! - A workable fusion of socialism and capitalism. Where government is seen as workable and not "evil"! And a slight redistribution of the wealth for the poor and oppressed and disenfranchised!

    (I know this is idealistic, but I like this vision! --- This is where we all join hands and sing a socially-conscious Bob Dylan folk song with Joan Baez! -- for the times, they are a-changin'!)
     
    #4 D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, Mar 17, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2009
  5. Flashy

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  6. tripod

    Gold Member

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    There were some serious attempts to limit abortions during the Bush administration. The Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act passed in 2003 was supposed to ignite the country's "pro-life bones" and the evangelicals were hoping that Roe v. Wade was to be overturned with Bush's loaded Supreme court. Their theatrics were apparently not enough to sway the average American's opinion that abortion be kept legal. They almost made it.

    President George W. Bush froze a Clinton-era proposal to lower the legal maximum of arsenic in our drinking water from 50 parts per billion to 5 ppb.

    and...

    on 3-20-2001 Bush withdraws new arsenic in drinking water standard.
    then on 5-22-2001 Bush formally suspends arsenic in drinking water protections.

    the EPA then issued an arsenic in-tap water standards HIGHER then that recommended by health and safety advocates on 10-13-2001

    then on 7-12-2003 the EPA quietly backs off on reducing drinking water pollution. There is more, I'll post it if you want...


    He has made indications that he will. He is presently consulting his military advisers on the subject and most likely move in 2010 on the matter.

    Using dirty energy is just wrong and we have been participating in that endeavor for far too long. Obama's cap and trade system raises a bunch of money that can be returned to consumers to offset the effect of higher energy costs.

    What would you propose to do Flashy? Nothing? A carbon tax?

    Dylan probably rides in a Cadillac, uses an iPod, drinks Pepsi and fucks Carolyn while she is wearin' Victoria Secret lingerie. Should he NOT make commercials about things that he uses or has a use for?

    Apple, Cadillac, Peps and VS never dropped any bombs on people.

    And when did Dylan ever rail against cars? Name the Bob Dylan song where he trashes Victoria's Secret... when has Dylan sang against Pepsi?

    Corporations in and of themselves are not the problem.

    Dylan's "Masters of War" is still completely intact and is as relevant today as it was when the song was written.
     
  7. Flashy

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    Roe vs Wade was not overturned, as i said, your hysterics not withstanding.

    we all know the republicans hate clean water, strangely they are joined by plenty of democrats in that endeavor.

    In 2008 election cycle, the PACs of the Top 10 worst water polluters gave almost equally to Republicans & Democrats, who gladly accepted.

    According to Waterkeepers (2005 worst 10)

    1. AK Steel Corp
    single largest reported discharger of toxics to water nationwide. discharged an astonishing 29,680,083 pounds of toxins to the Ohio River.

    Contributions to federal candidates - $73,550

    Democrats 25% - $18,250
    Republicans 75% - $45,300

    --

    2. BASF Corp
    Their Freeport, Texas, chemical plant is the second largest reported discharger of toxins to surface water in the U.S., releasing 15,945,553 pounds of contaminates into the Clute Lake Jackson Drainage Channel and the Brazos River. The German-based chemical company reported discharging toxins to 11 different waterbodies in eight states.


    Contributions to federal candidates - [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]$301,000[/FONT]


    Democrats 36% - $109,000
    Republicans 64% - $192,000


    --


    3. Cargill
    and their subsidiaries are a triple threat—high number (11) of facilities discharging toxins, high number (10) of waterbodies polluted, and total pounds (almost 12 million) of toxins discharged.


    Contributions to federal candidates - [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]$147,000[/FONT]


    Democrats - 33% - $49,000
    Republicans - 67% - $98,000

    --


    4. Dow Chemical
    and their subsidiaries discharge a whopping 97 different toxins to 16 different U.S. waterbodies, including a total of 606 pounds of the incredibly dangerous, dioxin. There is no known safe exposure limit to dioxin and it bioaccumulates



    Contributions to federal candidates - $294,500


    Democrats - 44% - $130,000
    Republicans - 56% - $164,500




    5. DuPont
    continues to discharge PCBs to the Delaware River, even though this highly toxic substance is banned. In addition, Du Pont, in conjunction with the U.S. Army, is planning to discharge VXH, a form of caustic nerve gas, into the Delaware River

    Contributions to federal candidates - [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]$217,100[/FONT]


    Democrats - 36% - $79,100
    Republicans - 64% - $138,000


    --


    6. ExxonMobil
    continues to poison our waterbodies with mercury, a neurotoxin, and MTBE, a potential human carcinogen. This petroleum powerhouse weighs in with 25 facilities releasing 47 different kinds of toxins into 25 different U.S. waterbodies.

    Contributions to federal candidates - [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]$721,998[/FONT]


    Democrats 11% - $78,000
    Republicans 89% - $643,998

    --

    7. General Electric
    is notorious for their legacy of PCB contamination of the upper Hudson River. They've spent millions on a campaign to avoid cleaning up this mess. They lead the pack with the largest number of facilities discharging toxins to surface water.

    Contributions to federal candidates [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]$1,386,300[/FONT]



    Democrats 52% - $719,350
    Republicans 48% - $666,950




    8. MOnsanto
    continue their horrifying tradition as the manufacturer of Agent Orange and now banned PCBs, producing herbicides and pesticides that contaminate water all over the U.S. and the world. Not only are their products dangerous, they take top dishonors for discharging the largest variety of toxins (97) to our waterways.

    Contributions to federal candidates [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]$186,250[/FONT]


    Democrats - 42% - $78,500
    Republicans - 58% - $107,750


    9. Tyson Foods
    Tyson's 23 facilities discharge toxins to 24 different waterbodies. The largest chicken producer in the U.S. and largest supplier of beef likes to keep it big—including the 18,424,001 pounds of toxins they discharged to U.S. waters in 2002.

    Contributions to federal candidates [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]$164,159[/FONT]


    Democrats - 60% - $98,659
    Republicans - 40% - $63,000



    10. US Steel
    dischages more than 20 heavy metals and other toxins to nine waterbodies in Alabama, California, Indiana, and Pennsylvania. Their Gary, Indiana, steel works alone pumps out 2,970,499 pounds of arsenic, chromium, cyanide, lead, mercury and 18 other toxins into Lake Michigan and three other surrounding waterbodies.

    Contributions to federal candidates [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]$228,377[/FONT]


    Democrats 64% - $145,627
    Republicans 36% - $82,750




    ---


    TOTAL Contributions to federal candidates - $3,720,234

    Democrats - $1,517,986 - 40.80 %
    Republicans - $2,202,248 - 59.19%



    60-40 does not look too much like good guy/bad guy especially since the difference came from Exxon/Mobil who overwhelmingly support Republicans.

    subtract the glaring Exxon Mobil, & it's a rather even race to see who can help pollute the waters.

    TOTAL Contributions to federal candidates without ExxonMobil - [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]$2,998,236[/FONT]

    Democrats - $1,439,980 - 48.02%
    Republicans -$1,558,256 - 51.98%




    I have made indications that i will pay my sister the $10 i owed her from a very controversial and contested bet i lost back in 1992. I have been consulting my financial and legal advisers on the subject and i most likely will not move ever on the matter.


    He is not moving anywhere while US Combat forces are involved in Iraq and Afghanistan.


    Well guess what? dirty energy has been used ever since we discovered oil & coal as sources & will still be used for decades to come. There is no alternative system in place yet to absorb the energy needs of this country if we were to stop using fossil fuels tomorrow.

    Obviously you do not seem to realize, that the money is not going to be "returned" to the consumer, since the companies will simply pass along their added cost *to* the consumer.



    yes, i am sure he uses those things and his altruism leads him to make those commercials.


    oh is that right?


    -Cadillac is a brand owned by General Motors. They made the Hummer, for the army. I have a feeling that Hummers in war zones with machine guns on top have killed a few folks, no?

    GM Defense was formed in 1950. GM Land Systems eventually wound up owned by General Dynamics

    GM produced the Stryker armored fighting vehicle, seen blazing away at in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    GM Also owned Hughes Aircraft, and bought the missile systems business from General Dynamics.

    GM/Hughes also produced the AH64 Apache helicopter



    -Apple Computer is a large air polluter, in fact it had a rather nasty run-in with the City of Sacramento about it.

    Its software and computers are involved in many levels of the US Military both in weapons design and application like the Naval Air Warfare Center Weapons Division China Lake

    There are over 20,000 Apple Computers in the US Military, from operations to weapon design.



    -Pepsi - I am shocked that a conspiracy nut like you does not know about the Pepsi/Kendall, Nixon, Rumsfeld connection...strange that Dylan would shill for them considering how he undoubtedly feels about characters such as Nixon and Rumsfeld

    -Victoria's Secret lingerie is made in sweatshops overseas.

    Jonathan Tasini: Victoria's Secret, Slave Labor And So-Called "Free Trade"

    strange, i guess it is just what corporations *DO* that is the problem.

    indeed it is...so strange that he would shill for a car company with their past and present neck deep in the military industrial complex you and Dylan so decry


    Come you masters of war
    You that build the big guns (GM)
    You that build the death planes (Hughes Aerospace owned by GM)
    You that build all the bombs (GD Missile systems, owned by Hughes/GM)


    -

    Like Judas of old
    You lie and deceive
    A world war can be won
    You want me to believe (RUMSFELD, who also shilled for Pepsi)


    -


    Let me ask you one question
    Is your money that good
    Will it buy you forgiveness

    Do you think that it could
    I think you will find
    When your death takes its toll
    All the money you made
    Will never buy back your soul (Tell that to the sweatshop workers making VS Bras)




    -


    spare me your continued partisan bullshit.

    you blame the republicans for every ill, the entire time deifying your corrupt masters as virtuous. they are all the same

    you are as bad as they are.
     
  8. tripod

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    Yes... you'd take the fucking money too if they offered to you. The difference is the fact that Democrats don't fucking bend over backwards to ruin the goddamn drinking water and the environment.

    Well, a continued occupation and war effort would make enacting big changes difficult of darn near impossible. It's most likely the reality though.

    Well, there has been intense opposition to alternative energies over the years and most of it has come from the right. When do we start to ween ourselves off of the oil tit? Next year? In two years? How about now?

    Obama could then issue tax credits to consumers and use the revenue from the cap and trade policies if the energy companies pass the cost along, which they shouldn't.

    Oh... and fuck Bob Dylan!!!! Thanx for taking the time to school me on what a hypocrite he is being with those commercials.

    The thing is... he was never really a member of the left...he sings folk music, but he's no fucking Pete Seeger. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt, I just had a romanticized vision of the man... it was false, you are right.

    First off, I don't have "masters", there are some people in the public that I respect and that is as far as it goes. I don't blame the republicans for every ill... that is complete exaggeration. I don't think that the Republicans have been held accountable for their misdeeds though. You obviously don't know that I can't stand the Clintons and think that they made some ridiculous moves during their term. I am however a big fan of Carter even though he is human and makes mistakes like everyone else.

    The truth is that the Democrats are pikers when it comes to corruption and evil when compared to the Republicans. I'm not as critical of them because they are not as corrupt and evil.

    Your nihilistic view of the world is not productive nor is it to be desired. I mean, nobody wants to live in fantasy land, but we shouldn't be cynical to the extreme should we?
     
  9. Notaguru2

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    I thought I'd never live to see day you finally saw Bush for who he is.
     
  10. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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  11. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    LOL. They don't need to mention him. He has a fairly close acquaintance with an office within shouting distance of my favorite prez.

    Osmosis.
     
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