tibetan uprising

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by kalipygian, Mar 18, 2008.

  1. kalipygian

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    My sympathies are with the people of Tibet in resisting the oppression of the PRC.

    From the Government of Tibet in exile:

    TibetNet - News Flash

    It was a bit difficult to decide which support organization to contribute to, I decided on this group:

    Http://www.studentsforafreetibet.org
     
  2. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    why are we legitimizing the PRC?

    Free Tibet!
     
  3. Drifterwood

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    It is easy to forget, or never to have known, that Tibet was run as a medieval fiefdom by the Monks and a small aristocracy, with the vast majority of Tibetans in servile bondage as serfs.

    Is this what you wish to free Tibet to again?
     
  4. kalipygian

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    If that is what you suppose, you must not be aware of anything the Dalai Lama has written or done. He has been quite progressive his entire life.

    Click on the link I posted for the Government of Tibet in exile, then click on 'legislature', they are and have been more democratic than the PRC is ever likely to be.
     
  5. Drifterwood

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    I have looked at it now.

    The DL wants autonomy not independence, rather like Hong Kong.

    Tibetan GDP has average growth of 12% per annum since 2000 and disposable income has increased by 66% for rural people in the same time (over 30% for the urban population).

    TBH, I think the DL should stick to being a spiritual leader, like in our democracies where we clearly separate church and state, don't we?

    It would be very interesting to see a free vote of the people of Tibet.
     
  6. kalipygian

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    I think that the Dalai Lama would like the same thing. His responsibility is rather larger. He certainly was not happy in the role of God King, and does not aspire to it again.

    The Dalai Lama is much more moderate than many of the Tibetian people, who want the Chinese out of their country. His government and the PRC agreed to autonomy when they invaded in 1950. Obviously they have not kept their agreement.

    It l
     
  7. Drifterwood

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    The lot of the people is exponentially better now than when Kissinger sold them out in the late sixties.
     
  8. Principessa

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    Dalai Lama 'to resign' if violence worsens


    BEIJING, China (CNN) -- The Dalai Lama urged Tibetans to show restraint Tuesday, saying that "if things become out of control," his "only option is to completely resign," The Associated Press reported.

    Earlier, Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao blamed supporters of the Dalai Lama on for violence in Tibet. He also said Chinese forces exercised restraint in confronting unrest there.
    "There is ample fact and we also have plenty of evidence proving that this incident was organized, premeditated, masterminded and incited by the Dalai clique," Wen said in a televised news conference.

    Violence in Tibet exploded Friday, killing an untold number of people.

    The precise number of victims -- and which side they were on -- remained in dispute, but James Miles, a reporter for The Economist, said it appeared that the dead included Tibetans as well as Han Chinese who live and operate businesses in Tibet. http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/tabs/video.gifWatch Chinese police on the streets »

    Additional clashes have been reported in other parts of China with significant ethnic Tibetan populations.

    Some Tibetans have long advocated independence for Tibet, which is formally an autonomous region of China. The Dalai Lama stopped short of a call for independence this week but argued that the Chinese treat Tibetans as second-class citizens in their own land. He said Tibetans need a full and genuine autonomy to protect their cultural heritage.

    The Tibetan government in exile said at least 80 people were killed by police in the Tibetan capital of Lhasa, while local authorities placed the number far lower. http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/tabs/video.gifWatch riot police search homes »

    "There are 13 common people who died in the beating, burning and smashing in the riots," said Champa Phuntsok, the head of Tibet's regional government.

    "They died of fire, asphyxiation and beating. Some of them were set on fire by rioters and died in the burning."
    The Dalai Lama accused China on Monday of "cultural genocide" in Tibet -- something Wen dismissed.

    "Those claims that the Chinese government is engaged in so-called cultural genocide are lies," he said, pledging that Beijing will continue to "protect the culture ... in Tibet."
    "We will continue to help Tibet improve the livelihood of people of all ethnic groups," Wen said. "We will never waver in this position."

    Washington has encouraged China's leaders to reach out to the Dalai Lama.

    "We have really urged the Chinese over several years to find a way to talk with the Dalai Lama, who is a figure of authority, who is not a separatist, and to find a way to engage him and bring his moral weight to a more sustainable and better solution of the Tibet issue," Rice said from Moscow on Monday.

    The U.S. State Department urged restraint as the Chinese government responds to the Tibetan protesters.
    Meanwhile, CNN's John Vause witnessed the movement of Chinese military convoys near Tibet on Tuesday. http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/tabs/video.gifWatch troop movements in Sichuan »

    "We saw a convoy of military vehicles heading north on the road to Nwaga County here in Sichuan province," Vause reported. "That's where exiled Tibetan groups claim there have been deadly clashes over the last couple of days with more than 30 protesters, including monks, women and children, killed by Chinese security forces."

    There are also claims of violence by Tibetans against ethnic Chinese.

    http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/tabs/video.gifWatch the generational divide among independence activists »

    China's Xinhua news agency reported Monday that rioters set fires at more than 300 locations in Lhasa on Friday, including residences and more than 200 shops. Xinhua also said they smashed and burned dozens of vehicles, attacked schools, banks, hospitals, shops, government offices, utilities and state media offices.

    A CNN crew tried to travel to Tibet or Nwaga to investigate the reported clashes, but Chinese security forces turned them back while they were several hundred miles away, Vause reported.

    During his news conference, Wen made it clear that government forces would maintain control. "We are fully capable of maintaining stability and normal public order in Tibet," he said.
     
  9. Gonzo3

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    .................Ditto.:rolleyes:
     
  10. Gonzo3

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    And how can the ....Dalai lama.....resign he is supposed to be an incarnation of compassion......."chenrezig" ........protector of the dharma.......(the Buddhas teaching)..... and one of the protecting Deity's of tibet.......... he had no choice in the matter. he was chosen before he was 7 years old :rolleyes:
     
  11. Principessa

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    Thank you! I was wondering the exact same thing! I'm no expert in world religions but I do know that him stepping down would leave Tibetans up S%&*s Creek without a paddle. Who would take his place, Richard Gere or Brad Pitt? :confused:
     
  12. D_Chaumbrelayne_Copprehead

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    I don't know all the wrinkles in this situation or how to solve it. But I think the Dalai Lama is a great man. I heard him speak once and followed the inspiration to learn more about Tibetan Buddhism.
     
  13. Gonzo3

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    Emmmmmmmmmmmm Richard Gere,he would look nice in a big yellow hat and purple robes :rolleyes:
     
  14. Gonzo3

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    ............NO..... ONE...... said the Dalai Lama was not a great man,he is obviously a man of peace,he is the only voice the Tibetan people have on the world stage, I have heard him talk a few times but find it hard to understand his English.it must be very difficult for him, he walks a fine line as a religious and secular leader :rolleyes:
     
  15. dong20

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    Instead of your usual MO of merely posting links or 3rd party commentary and walking away - as if that counted as having a view on a given issue, why not make a cogent contribution of your own? :tongue:

    SpeedoGuy, K and I have been discussing this (after a fashion) here for a few days. K, Thanks for creating a dedicated thread. I thought about it but xpected it would get drowned out by the current election fever going on and would be a wasted effort. After all ... OK I won't say it. :rolleyes:

    http://www.lpsg.org/1356137-post27.html
     
  16. Drifterwood

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    So, what are your thoughts on Tibet, D?
     
  17. xLx

    xLx New Member

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    on a slightly related tangent, could i just ask people to read this.....it's a bit long but you'll be glad you did.
     
  18. dong20

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    Too much cosy nostalgia and not enough real understanding.

    The prospect of true independence is close to zero, and I'm not convinced that's what many of today's Tibetans would really want even if given a free choice. None of the above is any excuse for systematic programme of what amounts to cultural genocide by the Chinese and decades of western intransigence of course.

    The general impression I got was (and this is very general) that for the most part, they just wanted to be left alone. Many also accepted that this wasn't really a practical option, and accepted that they had long needed to modernise.

    The Chinese 'occupation' has brought some tangible benefits and this was generally conceded (usually, but not always grudgingly), by many (but not all) of those I spoke to about this. Nonetheless, there was an almost universal, very deeply felt resentment against any and all attempts to subvert their culture by the Chinese. IMHO, independence issues aside, this was (and probably still is) the root cause of their unhappiness and these recent troubles. That was some years back though, perhaps things have changed, though if recent events are any indication, I doubt it certainly not for the better.

    As for solutions, here's one idea: Beijing should stop being such a cultural ideologue and acknowledge Tibet is no threat to their social or political hegemony. They should allow the Dalai Lama to return as spiritual leader and de facto head of state, if he is willing. Independence it ain't but it's likely to be as close as Tibet will even come to that again.

    That's by no means all I have to say but I'm multi-tasking right now, so short posts are me, so apologies if my comments don't appear well reasoned...:biggrin1:
     
  19. ClaireTalon

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    The last thing the world needs and the international community wants is another independent state that contributes largely nothing to international affairs except fuss with more or less insightful spare time buddisths and stinks about international transfusions of money. I can't imagine that in the eyes of the substantial, developed industrial countries an independent state of Tibet is worth the hassle of messing with China. Don't forget: China is an important market to all of the G8 nations, in all of them, the pressure from the industrial associations would be enormous not to risk China deals.

    For the same reason, I'm afraid I see little chances of international guarantees for cultural independence of Tibetians. In fact, I see no option but waiting until China and its diverse regions and provinces have become pervaded of moderate forces that don't automatically link cultural independence and identity to autonomy or political independence. This may take a few more decades, but it is the process that I would favor. Not only because it is the process that allows the cultural groups to benefit from being part of a more substantial economy, but also because it is not imposed from foreign parties.
     
  20. simcha

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    Yeah, it's kind of the same with Cuba, only the rich white Cubans ran things and enslaved the people of color on their plantations pre-Castro. Now they sit in Miami, vote Republican, and whine about how awful it is that they lost their plantations and slaves.

    I don't support the PRC or Castro Cuba Government. They do horrible things to people. However, most of the "commoners" are better off under each government. It's sad in both places.
     
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