tibetan uprising

[kalipygian]

on a slightly related tangent, could i just ask people to read this.....it's a bit long but you'll be glad you did.

I read through it all, it made me sad rather than glad. The crimes of the PRC make the abuses of the W. administration seem minor in comparison.

Gordon Brown and princess Anne, who is head of the British Olympic Committee, are both scheduled to attend the opening ceremonies, as is W.

The Dalai Lama has stated that he does not encourage boycotting the Olympics.

I doubt the report that has been posted that HH has threatened to resign.
There is no mention of anything of the sort at his official website.
He has in the past said that he personally would prefer to withdraw from worldly affairs.
His upcoming schedule of teaching and speaking shows that he is continuing to be very active.
He is traveling to Michigan April 16-20, Germany May 16-18, then Britain, Australia, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and France in August.

Http://www.tibetoffice.org/en/index.php?

 

[kalipygian]

(too late to edit my previous post) The BBC World Service has mentioned the threat to resign.

 

[Industrialsize]

And how can the ....Dalai lama.....resign he is supposed to be an incarnation of compassion......."chenrezig" ........protector of the dharma.......(the Buddhas teaching)..... and one of the protecting Deity's of tibet.......... he had no choice in the matter. he was chosen before he was 7 years old

your post shows total ignorance of Tibetan buddhism

The PRC's main aim in Tibet is the total eradication of the Tibetan Culture.......a beautiful, thousands of years old exercise in pacifism and compassion.

By the way Chenrezig is not a protector deity but is considered the Buddha of Compassion......AND he wasn't "choen", he was "found"

 

[dong20]

(too late to edit my previous post) The BBC World Service has mentioned the threat to resign.

He can't resign as Dalai Lama. He can step down from his political role as head of the Tibetan protest movement.

 

[kalipygian]

The last thing the world needs and the international community wants is another independent state that contributes largely nothing to international affairs except fuss with more or less insightful spare time buddisths and stinks about international transfusions of money. I can't imagine that in the eyes of the substantial, developed industrial countries an independent state of Tibet is worth the hassle of messing with China. Don't forget: China is an important market to all of the G8 nations, in all of them, the pressure from the industrial associations would be enormous not to risk China deals.

For the same reason, I'm afraid I see little chances of international guarantees for cultural independence of Tibetians. In fact, I see no option but waiting until China and its diverse regions and provinces have become pervaded of moderate forces that don't automatically link cultural independence and identity to autonomy or political independence. This may take a few more decades, but it is the process that I would favor. Not only because it is the process that allows the cultural groups to benefit from being part of a more substantial economy, but also because it is not imposed from foreign parties.

China is a 'foreign party' in Tibet.

The Tibetian people are as rightfully entitled to self determination as any other.

 

[Gonzo3]

your post shows total ignorance of Tibetan buddhism

The PRC's main aim in Tibet is the total eradication of the Tibetan Culture.......a beautiful, thousands of years old exercise in pacifism and compassion.

By the way Chenrezig is not a protector deity but is considered the Buddha of Compassion......AND he wasn't "choen", he was "found"

...........thats debatable? ....You talk of Tibetan Buddhism you will obviously know that Tibetan Buddhism is a mix of the indigenous Bon religion pre Buddhist,which was an animistic belief mainly, and is there fore not pure Buddhist ,the correct term for some one like the Dalai lama is a "tulku" of which there are a few,who are believed to be by there followers the embodiment of Compassion i.e Chenrezig,....Avolakishvara,.....Kun-yin,.....they are all names for the same thing,(Compassion) as to his enlightened state that is all a matter of belief ,as a supposed embodiment of compassion he is a guide and light not only to the Tibetan people, but to all peace loving people in the world. Tibetan buddism is only one way of interpreting the buddhas message ...NOT THE ONLY ONE....there are as i am sure you know many others............ Peace out......:smile:

 

[kalipygian]

He can't resign as Dalai Lama. He can step down from his political role as head of the Tibetan protest movement.

Agreed.


Sadly, it seems like such a threat can influence the Tibetians, and not the Chinese, who will continue to violently suppress even the most peaceful protest.
Perhaps akin to Gandhi's hunger strikes, he was a more savvy manipulator than than Tenzin Gyatsu seems to care about being. The nonviolence and non co-operation tactics that were successful in getting the British to leave India have not been as effective on the PRC.

I don't think he is a politician, any more than the Queen is.

 

[dong20]

Sadly, it seems like such a threat can influence the Tibetians, and not the Chinese, who will continue to violently suppress even the most peaceful protest.

I'd always assumed that was who the 'threat' was aimed at.

I don't think he is a politician, any more than the Queen is.

I imagine he may agree with you.

 

[Industrialsize]

...........thats debatable? ....You talk of Tibetan Buddhism you will obviously know that Tibetan Buddhism is a mix of the indigenous Bon religion pre Buddhist,which was an animistic belief mainly, and is there fore not pure Buddhist ,the correct term for some one like the Dalai lama is a "tulku" of which there are a few,who are believed to be by there followers the embodiment of Compassion i.e Chenrezig,....Avolakishvara,.....Kun-yin,.....they are all names for the same thing,(Compassion) as to his enlightened state that is all a matter of belief ,as a supposed embodiment of compassion he is a guide and light not only to the Tibetan people, but to all peace loving people in the world. Tibetan buddism is only one way of interpreting the buddhas message ...NOT THE ONLY ONE....there are as i am sure you know many others............ Peace out......:smile:

So what exactly is "pure" buddhism?.......every culture into which Buddhism was introduced put their own stamp on it.....I don't think anyone has the market cornered on "pure" buddhism.

 

[Gonzo3]

So what exactly is "pure" buddhism?.......every culture into which Buddhism was introduced put their own stamp on it.....I don't think anyone has the market cornered on "pure" buddhism.

............"Pure Buddhism ".......the nearest teachings we have of what the historical Buddha (Siddhartha Gotama) actually taught based on scriptural evidence,the oldest extant Buddhist scriptures we have are those of the pali cannon, written in Pali the language the historical Buddha spoke himself ,of the Theravada (or southern school) as practiced in Sri-Lank,Thailand,East Asia, Tibetan Buddhism is based on Mahayana( northern) school teachings which did not appear until around the beginning of the Christian era 1st century AD ,some 5 hundred years after the Buddhas death based on the principle of the Bodhisattva ideal, and the Trikaya doctrine(The Mahayana doctrine of the basic unity of the reality underlying manifestation,the phenomenal or Sambhogakaya,being aspects of the one ultimate reality,the dharmakaya as applied to the development of buddhahood and Bodhisattvahood,the doctrine teaches that each aspirant for buddhahood may on attaing the goal,renounce final nirvana and keep in touch with humanity by dwelling in the Nirmanakaya ,as a TULKU the outstanding examples of the doctrine are the Dalia and Panchen lamas, whose power some believe is that off(Avalokitesvara-The lord who is seen -Compassion in action) and (Amitabha-The Buddha of infinite light) respectively ,.......peace out..:smile:

 

[titan1968]

You are correct.

It is strange how most Western governments (e.g. USA, Germany) rushed to the defence of Kosovo (and Albanian Kosovars) and were quick to support their independence movement against the wishes of Serbia. How is it that we can't do the same for Tibet? What hypocrisy!!! What double standards!!! Are Western governments (and Western-based companies) afraid of jeopardising their investments in the '' Peoples' Republic'' of China? What about Irak, Afghanistan and Palestine? How is the fight for ''democracy'' going there?

In 1980, most Western countries boycotted the Moscow Olympic Games after the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan. The West said it was a violation of Afghan sovereignty. Almost twenty years later, a Western-led coalition invades Afghanistan to free her from tyranny and to show her the way to democracy. Have the lives of the peoples of Irak and Afghanistan really improved in the past five years? As long as the peoples' basic needs are not being met, there will be strife and violence. Tibet is no exception(many of us forget that people fought for the basic rights that we take for granted in the West today--they weren't given to us).

In my opinion, the leaders of the tyranny that is the ''Peoples' Republic'' of China see ''domestic'' problems like a pile of manure: bury it, don't talk about it and hope it doesn't smell too much; if it does, smile, change the subject and bury it some more. We wouldn't want the Tibetan uprising to eclipse the Olympics, would we?

China is a 'foreign party' in Tibet.

The Tibetian people are as rightfully entitled to self determination as any other.

 

[B_Nick4444]

.

 

[PussyWellington]

This is not just about religion, it's about politics. The D.L. is a political leader. Just out of curiosity, are there any Americans that would support a 'Free Alaska' or 'Free Hawaii"?

 

[B_Nick4444]

not quite analagous

 

[titan1968]

Exactly, PussyWellington. It's mainly about money and natural resources.

How do Hawaii and Alaska fit into all of this?

This is not just about religion, it's about politics. The D.L. is a political leader. Just out of curiosity, are there any Americans that would support a 'Free Alaska' or 'Free Hawaii"?

 

[dong20]

It is strange how most Western governments (e.g. USA, Germany) rushed to the defence of Kosovo (and Albanian Kosovars) and were quick to support their independence movement against the wishes of Serbia. How is it that we can't do the same for Tibet? What hypocrisy!!! What double standards!!! Are Western governments (and Western-based companies) afraid of jeopardising their investments in the '' Peoples' Republic'' of China? What about Irak, Afghanistan and Palestine? How is the fight for ''democracy'' going there?

Not strange at all; Serbia isn't a nuclear superpower with the worlds 4th (perhaps now 3rd) largest national economy and an almost 2.5 million strong standing army (7 million total).

What would you suggest, a full scale NATO invasion of Tibet - a region within arms reach of four Nuclear powers with less than the most robust command and control chains? Works for me. It's not that I don't sympathise, I'm just being realistic.

The situation in Tibet sucks, it sucked in 1959 and it will probably suck 50 years from now, if there's anything of Tibet left by then of course.

In 1980, most Western countries boycotted the Moscow Olympic Games after the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan. The West said it was a violation of Afghan sovereignty. Almost twenty years later, a Western-led coalition invades Afghanistan to free her from tyranny and to show her the way to democracy. Have the lives of the peoples of Irak and Afghanistan really improved in the past five years? As long as the peoples' basic needs are not being met, there will be strife and violence.

Needs and perceptions change to meet what's politically or economically expedient at the time.

In my opinion, the leaders of the tyranny that is the ''Peoples' Republic'' of China see ''domestic'' problems like a pile of manure: bury it, don't talk about it and hope it doesn't smell too much; if it does, smile, change the subject and bury it some more. We wouldn't want the Tibetan uprising to eclipse the Olympics, would we?

That's the typical mo, yes. As for the Olympics, it's a bit too late for that, we can smell it already.

 

[SteveHd]

My sentiments are in-line with Dong's, that is, we have to be realistic. China has annexed Tibet and there's little that the G8 countries can do about how China administers it.

I oppose an Olympic boycott. I remember the one in 1980: I was ambivalent then and I regard it as a mistake now. A boycott harms the games and athletes much more than the host nation. A boycott harms the games and athletes much more than the host nation.

 

[titan1968]

No, not strange, just hypocritical.

Not strange at all; Serbia isn't a nuclear superpower with the worlds 4th (perhaps now 3rd) largest national economy and an almost 2.5 million strong standing army (7 million total).

No, how about a full scale boycott of all Chinese products? It takes money to run an army, doesn't it? If everyone did his part.... Like Mahatma Gadhi said: '' We must become the change we want to see''.

What would you suggest, a full scale NATO invasion of Tibet - a region within arms reach of four Nuclear powers with less than the most robust command and control chains? Works for me. It's not that I don't sympathise, I'm just being realistic.

I don't share your cynicism.
The situation in Tibet sucks, it sucked in 1959 and it will probably suck 50 years from now, if there's anything of Tibet left by then of course.



Needs and perceptions change to meet what's politically or economically expedient at the time.



That's the typical mo, yes. As for the Olympics, it's a bit too late for that, we can smell it already.

 

[titan1968]

On the contrary....

I am in support of a full scale boycott of Chinese products. Not only will I not watch the ''games'', I will boycott the sponsors (Canadian or other) and their products and will encourage others to do so.

My sentiments are in-line with Dong's, that is, we have to be realistic. China has annexed Tibet and there's little that the G8 countries can do about how China administers it.

I oppose an Olympic boycott. I remember the one in 1980: I was ambivalent then and I regard it as a mistake now. A boycott harms the games and athletes much more than the host nation. A boycott harms the games and athletes much more than the host nation.

 

[dong20]

On the contrary....

I am in support of a full scale boycott of Chinese products. Not only will I not watch the ''games'', I will boycott the sponsors (Canadian or other) and their products and will encourage others to do so.

I am with you on that. I've already said that IMHO awarding the games to Beijing was a mistake. I understand why it was done, but a mistake all the same.

I'm not cynical. Well actually, often I am. But that wasn't a cynical remark. Seriously, would you advocate an invasion of Tibet to restore independence?