Time Magazine this week (US) Circumsiscion?

Discussion in 'The Healthy Penis' started by catman, Apr 25, 2009.

  1. catman

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    This weeks Time magazine, last page has a very well done piece on, of all things, circumcision (the wife is for it, he is opposed to it) and offers a well rounded 'view' on the whole thing....

    Joel Stein Contemplates Circumcision (For His Son) - TIME

    Joel Stein Contemplates Circumcision (For His Son)

    I knew having a child would force me to examine my life, but I didn't expect to have to start with my penis. When my wife and I found out we were having a boy, everyone asked if we were going to circumcise him. All I knew was that circumcision is something the U.S. does and Europe doesn't and is therefore awesome. Our penises are clean and sleek and new like Frank Gehry skyscrapers, while theirs are crumbling, ancient edifices inhabited by fat old men in hats.
    But when I thought about it, there was something disturbing about the fact that someone had chopped off part of my penis — a part that not only had nerve endings and a protective function but also could have made me look bigger. When I presented these arguments to my lovely wife Cassandra, she told me to shut up. Her argument was largely based on aesthetics and involved a lot of detailed talk about the surprising number of men she had dated. It's hard to win a debate when you're busy covering your ears and singing to yourself. (Read about Joel Stein's quest to name his baby.)

    I argued that our son would not feel embarrassed either way, since compared with American babies in the 1960s, when 90% got snipped, about half of newborns are now deforeskinned — and only about 30% of California infants. I went on Facebook to ask if being made fun of in the locker room was apocryphal. What I learned is that even Facebook users disapprove of making parental decisions on Facebook. And kids probably don't make fun of one another, since the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that only 69% of circumcised and 65% of uncircumcised adolescents know which one they are. Also, you don't need to be Don Rickles to respond to someone's mockery of your foreskin with a casual "Dude, why are you staring at my penis?"
    All I knew was that this is clearly not a decision I should be making for another human being. What school he attends, what he eats, which bouncy seat he should bounce in — sure. Whether to alter your genitals for aesthetic reasons is a question meant for your mid-20s at Burning Man.
    Still, I knew this decision was going to be made now or never, so I started asking every medical professional, woman and gay man what kind of penis they preferred, which, to my shock, got me a lot of dinner invitations. Though there seemed to be a slight aesthetic preference for not wearing a hat and a slight functional preference for keeping one on, no one had a really good argument for giving your baby plastic surgery. A pediatrician told me the sole reason he circumcised his son was so that the kid looked like him. If my son looks at my penis and the biggest difference he notices is foreskin, I have far more serious problems. Plus, if I wanted my son to look like me, I wouldn't have worked so hard to marry someone better-looking than I am.
    It turns out, though, that there's an enormous group of people who would argue passionately for my son's foreskin. Francis Crick and Jonas Salk were among the Nobel laureates who signed a petition to the World Court to end circumcision. The last week of March was Genital Integrity Awareness Week, which included a march from the White House to the Capitol, which, while not far in miles, is an eternity when measured in baby foreskins. This cause is so real, it has its own ribbon. There's even a group called Jews Against Circumcision, made up almost exclusively of Jews whose parents no longer talk to them. (Read "The Great Uncircumcision Debate.")
    The antisnipping crusaders argue that the ancient Greeks rejected this violent tribal custom of the Jews and Muslims; hardly anyone practices it anymore besides those groups and Americans. They argue that the Jews created it as a way either to exclude women from their club or to ritualize the sacrifice of the firstborn male. They say it was brought to the U.S. in Victorian times only as a means of reducing masturbation by limiting sensation, in what has to be the biggest failed medical experiment in history.
    Cassandra would not hear any of this. She felt strongly that our son should feel Jewish and that when she bathes him, she shouldn't have to touch his penis too much. And then last month, a study from Africa showed that circumcision greatly reduces the chances of catching a sexually transmitted disease. And I had lost my argument.
    So in a few weeks, I'm going to buy some bagels, call a mohel who is also a pediatric surgeon and believes in local anesthetic, and do something that I'm pretty sure is wrong. I have a horrible feeling that all of parenthood is like this
     
  2. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    Typical equivocating parent. "It's wrong but I'm going to do it anyway." Idiot.
     
  3. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

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    Ha...so its not JUST british to stick to the status quo! :biggrin1:
     
  4. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    Not at all! Americans are not all mavericks.
     
  5. Dave NoCal

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    He could tell his wife that when his son asks, and he will, that the entire argument will be explained to him honestly, along with who was for which course of action. What a wimp!
    Dave
     
  6. justcurious80

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    wow, the wife (who doesnt even have a penis in the first place) shouldn't be so strict. She should've examined both sides to the story. what a shame....
     
  7. D_Pubert Stabbingpain

    D_Pubert Stabbingpain Account Disabled

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    What Jason said but Kudos for Time publishing it. However, I figured that a Stein would opt for circ as there is extreme Jewish pressure for this. It is interesting to note that he says " . . .I started asking every medical professional, woman and gay man what kind of penis they preferred . . ." What? He did not ask straight men?
    It also tells you what kind of man he is to be asking a woman what type of penis she prefers in the first place! It is non sequitur. Hello? SHE HAS NO PENIS! And even if he was concerned about any future partner, it would be his decision to make!

    Isn't it amazing that women have fought so hard to have total control over their own bodies but still want control over men's? [another topic, sorry!]

    You're right Jason, he is an idiot! He needs to spend less time with his ass in the Torah and trying to placate his wife so he gets more sex and spend more time with his head in real life and honoring his son's life. We can only hope his email and voice mail boxes are full to over-flowing!
     
  8. D_Jerry_Atric

    D_Jerry_Atric Account Disabled

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    Talk about bad Jewish stereotypes! :eek:

    Also he mentioned that being cut reduces your chances for getting HIV/STDs but they have proven that this is not true.
     
  9. catman

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    I just noticed this bit...


    So he is asking....in case his son is straight- how he can please a woman...if his son is gay/bi, then he can please the man/men...

    how considerate!
     
  10. DoctorZZZ

    DoctorZZZ Member

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    i have to be honest I didnt know that a circumcision can reduce HIV prevention by that much. I always thought the difference was much lower. But that time link said 51%. Thats huge. I dont like the idea of removing part of my childs penis either, but if that article is correct, the reward outweighs the cost by a long shot.

    I always thought that circ didnt really effect hiv prevention. google time i guess
     
    #10 DoctorZZZ, Apr 27, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2009
  11. Jovial

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    Shouldn't they have discussed this before they got married? I guess they'll be arguing about which religion to teach him next.
     
  12. D_Jerry_Atric

    D_Jerry_Atric Account Disabled

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    It really does not protect against HIV.

    If it did you would not have seen so many cut gay/bisexual and heterosexual men getting HIV like they did.

    Condoms work better.
     
  13. ginger_qboy

    ginger_qboy Member

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    EXACTLY!!!!

    The study the pro-circ group uses to promote circumcision was conducted in central Africa. The study compared uncut men without access to clean, running water and soap to cut men living under the same unhygenic conditions. The study did not compare uncut/cut men in developed nations.

    If the study conducted in Africa applied to global HIV infection rates that would mean that the US should have one of the LOWEST rates of infection as the majority of men were circumcised at birth. Right? Circumcision reduces the chances of HIV transmission, they claim. Why then does the US have one of the highest rates of HIV/AIDS infections of all first-world nations?

    The US has an infection rate 3 times that of the UK, the Netherlands, Iceland, Denmark, Belgium, Nicaragua etc... and an infection rate 6 times that of Bolivia, Bulgaria, Finland, Ireland, Sweden, Poland, Estonia, Norway, Germany... Generally, men from these countires are not circumcised except for religious reasons.

    The countires above to not practice RIC and they have lower rates of HIV infection than the US where RIC is the norm and should prevent HIV infection, according to the study many use to defend RIC.

    The study is bullshit. Do your research people. Articles printed in Time magazine and others are NOT written without bias.
     
    #13 ginger_qboy, Apr 27, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2009
  14. vindicator

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    But thats why the whole thing gives a false sense of security, which will actually make the problem worse and HIV will spread faster. If you tell guys that getting cut will lesson their chances of getting HIV, they're going to go fuck without condoms thinking they're good. Even at 50%, thats a 1 in 2 chance of contracting HIV. Those are NOT good odds, so the whole thing is a waste of time. The only way it would be a good idea is if it was 95% + and thats not the case.

    Keep your foreskin, wear a domer. Simple as that.
     
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