Time Out!

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Gillette, Feb 17, 2010.

  1. Gillette

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2006
    Messages:
    8,309
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    14
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Nova Scotia
    Is there a chance we could dial back the vitriol?

    Cursing and insults are on the rise again, pity we can't turn either into a clean fuel source. Likewise making a joke of your opponent's name is a schoolyard ploy showing a lack of maturity.

    The most disturbing thing about these is that I'm seeing it more and more often from those who are otherwise making intelligent points. It's not enhancing anything; quite the opposite.

    I know that politics is an ugly messy business at the best of times but I'd at least like to see our discussion of it rise above the cafeteria food fight.

    Too much to ask?
     
  2. Industrialsize

    Staff Member Moderator Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2006
    Messages:
    24,279
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    2,113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    United States
    I couldn't agree more.........name calling does nothing to advance a political discussion.
     
  3. Vestigial

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    1,423
    Likes Received:
    0
    This place has left me near speechless.

    Even in topics in which I could participate, it feels like walking into an inferno.


    My brief time here has already earned itself a picture in my docudrama Gallery Photos.
     
  4. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2008
    Messages:
    4,706
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Rugby, England
    Not really cos SOME people bathe in it and the scent it leaves on them spreads through the air.
     
  5. Sklar

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,278
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    156
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Washington state
    How about we just ditch this particular forum and ban all threads dealing with politics?

    If someone wants to vent about politics so badly, they should find OTHER venues for it than this.

    Sklar
     
  6. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2007
    Messages:
    10,516
    Likes Received:
    7
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Boston, MA / New York, NY
    All I'm going to say is that it's difficult to remain civil when people are adamant to push their prejudicial agendas and ideologies upon others.

    Even if some choose not to use a four or five letter descriptive adjective to voice their disdain, they find more wordier ways to insult you. We shouldn't even be going after people who decide to engage in gutter, street-like vernacular if we're not going to pay attention to the context some people make. There's absolutely no difference between calling someone "stupid" and saying that their "cranium lacks the knowledge". One just looks prettier and witty to the naked eye.

    in the short time I've been on this board, I've had moments where I honestly felt as if people like me were the most hated people on the board. You had one group inadvertently calling me "inferior" because of my race or financial status, therefore I didn't deserve certain rights. Then, I had another group turn around and say that because of who I slept with that I was "inferior". THEN, because I was circumcised that I was "inferior". So basically, being a gay, black circumcised man really doesn't make you feel quite welcome in some parts of this board... at least not fully welcome. But I digress, if ever so slightly.

    The simple solution is to put people on ignore, right? I currently have more than 30 people on that list. You can only place people on ignore for so long, trying to act as if the problems don't exist or to try and create a small place within this cyber-world where none of this ignorance affects you. But all it takes is for someone to quote them, and you wind up reading their venomous expressions anyhow. Others say to stay away from certain parts of the board, primarily the Politics section. But this happens to some degree in EVERY part of the board. Ironically, nearly 1/3rd of the people I have on ignore have also been banned, so it's not just me that shares these similar problems. Coincidence? Who knows...

    I wasn't always a person who engaged in this much "sailor talk". But when you have multiple people indirectly targeting you and finding every thesaurus-ridden way to say that you're stupid, ignorant, vile, disgusting, pathetic, or not worthy, it only makes sense that the targets are going to respond in a not-so-pretty manner. If the language needs to be cleaned up, it needs to be done on all angles and not just the people who swear.

    Some people scan every post for a dirty word and cry foul. Others pay attention to the frame of reference and find some pretty words to be just as ugly. They're both just as important if this problem is going to be properly addressed.
     
    #6 B_VinylBoy, Feb 17, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2010
  7. D_Fiona_Farvel

    D_Fiona_Farvel Account Disabled

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    Messages:
    3,790
    Likes Received:
    17
    Here, here! I agree with Gillette.

    Or, you could just not read or participate in this forum.

    No, it isn't.
     
  8. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2007
    Messages:
    10,516
    Likes Received:
    7
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Boston, MA / New York, NY
    Actually, it is. Unless you've been the repeated target of similar scrutiny on this board it's very hard to feel what it must be like on the receiving end of that scorn. Everyone's threshold for tolerance has limits as well. If the ultimate goal is to turn down the antagonism on this board, everyone has to make some kind of effort to make sure that these lines are established and not crossed.
     
  9. D_Cateryke Cheesysmell

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    193
    Likes Received:
    4
    I would love for debates in this forum to remain civil, but the attitude so many people have seems to be "my opponent is not just wrong, he is evil and myst be stopped at all costs".
    I do not think dispassionate arguments are possible at all, and certainly not in a thread longer than three pages. Maybe they're not supposed to be? It's good to get the blood boiling once in a while, and a forum on the big schlong site seems to be the most harmless place in the world for it. We could try to stem the tide....Maybe if we mandate sarcasm be written in a different color... but why, really? People are passionate about their causes, and anyway, writing about politics on the internet is just another form of masturbation.

    Vinyl, I enjoy reading your posts. They offer a wildly different perspective from mine on several fronts. I do think that you thrive a little bit on being offended either for yourself or on behalf of some third party not present to defend themselves. Nothing wrong with that, It's your board as much as mine to do with what you please. Maybe folks are singling you out because of your need to defend?
     
  10. D_Fiona_Farvel

    D_Fiona_Farvel Account Disabled

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    Messages:
    3,790
    Likes Received:
    17
    I've been called out of my name and been involved in debates where the person engaged in a personal attack a few times, but I did not, to my recollection, follow them to that level.

    From what I have read, you give as good as you get, so there's no sympathy for the issues you point out above because you're not an innocent. But, if someone begins to take the conversation to the level of attack, the decision to respond in kind or not is your personal choice and well within your control.
     
  11. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2007
    Messages:
    10,516
    Likes Received:
    7
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Boston, MA / New York, NY
    That is simply not 100% accurate.
    Many of the threads made on this board are not in response to any one person in particular. When you go onto the Healthy Penis section and see countless threads about how circumcision looks "unnatural", why are we looking at the people who swear in response and not the person who created the rancorous comments in the first place? When you go to the Relationships & Discrimination part of the board and see how someone thinks sex with a person outside their race is "unpalatable", why do we only look at the people who take offense and use a dirty word and not the person who provided the catalyst? Again, just because someone is doing it with a smile and some articulate language doesn't mean that it isn't as degrading or insulting. That's why I stress the importance of context and not the way we superficially look at words. Case in point... many people consider the late George Carlin to be very intelligent and insightful. Myself included. But you wouldn't notice that if you were put off every time he swore, and he did that a lot.

    I see no contextual differences between two Rhodes scholars insulting one another with thesis-level discourse and two street thugs wrangling in urban dialect. When the two mediums cross, it's just an issue of appearance. Many people, without even thinking about it, look at the person with proper diction and put them on a higher level than the other... and many times it's the person who gets down and dirty that has the most relevant thing to say. If some people are so put off by dirty words that they won't take the time to actually understand what is being said, then there's no reason why we should even try to have debates on these boards. We may all be adults, but that doesn't mean that we all have the same level of articulation.

    Words are nothing without context. Be civil, or be raw and rambunctious. Be whatever you want. Just make sure your intentions are clear. The rest we can deal with afterwards.
     
    #11 B_VinylBoy, Feb 17, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2010
  12. D_Fiona_Farvel

    D_Fiona_Farvel Account Disabled

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    Messages:
    3,790
    Likes Received:
    17
    Gillette asked if "we could dial back the vitriol", that's on all sides.

    If you feel baited by the title of the thread or some content therein, don't respond or enter knowing the intent was too inflame and control your responses, that's on you.

    The mods have proven that posters who seeks to post only inflammatory material will be banned, whether temporarily or permanently. They have taken appropriate action, the rest is on individual posters to moderate their own behavior and act civilly or step away when needed. It isn't that difficult, I can point out a few posters who can post threads or take part in a debate, without crossing the line into attacking behavior.
     
  13. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2007
    Messages:
    10,516
    Likes Received:
    7
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Boston, MA / New York, NY
    I don't feel baited at all. Please don't project your assumption here. As for my ability to control my responses, I think I have demonstrated that. I've been far more than civil with you. It's a choice for me to engage someone in a discussion peacefully or with malice, and depending on whom I'm talking to (based on past and present discussion) that response may differ. I have no grievances with you. I don't see you on the board everyday pushing bigoted or discriminatory agendas. I don't see you starting multiple threads per day echoing sectarian or ethically dissociating beliefs. Therefore, IMO I have no reason to not talk to you civilly.

    That is a discussion for a completely different thread... one that I will simply not touch. I'm sure many people would like to see me silenced on this board. Sometimes I don't even know whether or not my continued participation on this board without moderated incident is all due to people understanding me despite my occasional bouts of gutter talk, or due to some level of luck. I'm just thankful I'm still here and have at least a handful of people who get what I'm saying.
     
  14. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,409
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Midwest
    Don't really see why people take things so seriously - it is just an internet chat site. We aren't sitting in a room together or living with one another.

    I've been called more names than anyone in the entire poli forum with the possible exception of Trinity; and haven't lost a single minute of sleep.:smile:

    Carry on.

    Chill out.

    Take a walk.
     
  15. Pitbull

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Messages:
    3,753
    Likes Received:
    7
    Gender:
    Male
    Tend to agree with mitchymo

    And many of those have stopped posting or now post infrequently. I would think the tone of the discussion and the lack of civility has much to do with their absence.

    Sadly, probably is too much to ask.
     
  16. D_Cateryke Cheesysmell

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    193
    Likes Received:
    4
    Yeah, Gillette, I think you have your answer. A resounding no.
     
  17. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2007
    Messages:
    10,516
    Likes Received:
    7
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Boston, MA / New York, NY
    I don't think it's gotten to that point yet. :redface:
     
  18. HazelGod

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    7,531
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    9
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The Other Side of the Pillow
    In this place? Undoubtedly.
     
  19. SilverTrain

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2008
    Messages:
    4,582
    Albums:
    8
    Likes Received:
    404
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA
    Frankly, I'm much less dismayed by the level of "flaming" that goes on in this forum (which is well below the level I've seen in many, many other online fora--which is not to say that flaming is not sometimes a problem here) as I am by the volume and degree of dogged adherence to partisan doctrine in conjunction with near-spam levels of posting said doggedly partisan blather.

    Not a whole lot of true "discussion" goes on here. It seems to either start out with, or quickly devolve into blind thrusting and parrying. Personally, I find myself swamped by an onslought of partisan talking points, and can only throw up a sandbag here and there to stem the tide. Which amounts to an occasional refutation of a load of bollocks, the odd semi-witty riposte, or expressions of general dismay and/or disgust. I'd rather I kept only to thoughtful analysis and debate, but I fail.

    When a decent discussion does brew up, it seems to invariably get sidetracked by partisan sniping at one another. And it's not so much that I mind a certain amount of partisan sniping. It's that it seems partisan sniping is all there is, a whole lot of the time.

    I am happy to hear a range of viewpoints, but rote and repeated parrotage of "party line" is as worthlessly banal as last night's dishwater.

    That's the killer for me.


    Disclaimer: I don't hold myself up as a paragon of virtue with regards to these "problems". See, e.g., Abernathy or Just Asking for that.
     
    #19 SilverTrain, Feb 17, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2010
  20. Countryguy63

    Verified Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    14,488
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,445
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    near Monterey, Calif.
    Verified:
    Photo
    The problem, as I see it, is that those that can't participate without the method that Gillett is talking about, really don't want to discuss anything. They want to insult, or revenge, oe even to cause a flame war.

    Any intelligent debat("e" or "o"?)r, of any quality, knows that it's not going to happen when mixed with insults, name calling, and personal remarks :rolleyes:
     
Draft saved Draft deleted