To The Older White Men Of Fetish World...

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4294991

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First off, I hope this doesn't offend anyone, that's not really my brand. My brand is making statements and calling things out when it needs to be called out. I'm not saying this applies to strictly older white men, but this seems to mostly happen with them. I'll even share an example of what I'm going to discus. This happened literally 15 minutes ago:

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There, I even made it nice and big for you so there's no confusion. I don't give a fuck what realm of fetish you're in, you will never refer to me as a slave and you should never refer to anyone as a slave. This man (who's old enough to be my grandfather) apparently still thinks in his mind this shit is Okay. First, let me just ask, who the fuck think this is Okay and there's nothing wrong with this? Now before you answer and without going to far into that detail, I'm obviously black. I've learned recently that my ancestry traces back in Nigeria and the small places around it, but mostly Nigeria. I'm from North Carolina, where people of places like Nigeria were take and transported (millions were killed on the boats) to North Carolina to work on the fields. Where I grew up, it's very conservative and racism is very much still alive. So yes, WILL not take kindly to being referred to as slave. And the fact that this man and many others like him don't even take time to think and realize the wrong in them facilitating that like it's Okay, it's sickening.

Then the other week, I had another guy (younger than him, but old enough to be my dad)... Let me just show that, I only state the facts:

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There. As you can see, this is someone else that wanted to own me, he used a different approach. Now some of you might say I could have cut it short, I wanted to know what his intentions were. I've made my intentions clear to him and on my profile. Of course I knew his intentions from going on his profile. But, I wanted to know why he DM'd me, now I see. There seems to be this common behavior of being so attracted to someone so strongly that you simply want to own them in entirety, without them having an existing presence outside of... whatever the person is being owned for. It all comes down to having dominating power over someone. I know that's a thing, but shit like this is where the line should be drawn. If ya'll are going to approach people of color, especially someone of my background, like take some thought. Check the calendar of what today's year is, check the time when this was Okay in public, and understand this shit will not be tolerated. Period.

That's all I have to say. Also, I'M NOT SAYING ALL OLDER WHITE MEN ARE LIKE THIS. And, I'M NOT SAYING THIS JUST HAPPENS TO YOUNG BLACK MEN. I don't think ANYONE, should be referred to as a slave. Do you guys know we still have slavery going on in some countries? Okay, well I hope this doesn't start any arguments. I just wanted to shine a light on a pattern I noticed that I'm tired of seeing.

And if you're going to speak in this forum, have an open mind and see both sides. Don't come on here trying to speak from one side and only trying to validate that one side, I don't entertain shit like that, you'll just be ignored. I'll read you comment though.
 
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925638

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"I don't think ANYONE should be referred to as a slave "

Some people like being referred to as slaves and it seems to be a common term in the fetish community. If someone wants to be called a slave that's their kink and it's none of my business. I would agree with their reply and say you should state clearly on your profile that it's a hard stop for you (just as I don't appreciate being referred to as a slave, spade, animal or beast).

I do feel your pain though. I've entered these spaces to fully explore my sexuality as a human being and find people who try to reduce me to something subhuman.
 
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4294991

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"I don't think ANYONE should be referred to as a slave "

Some people like being referred to as slaves and it seems to be a common term in the fetish community. If someone wants to be called a slave that's their kink and it's none of my business. I would agree with their reply and say you should state clearly on your profile that it's a hard stop for you (just as I don't appreciate being referred to as a slave, spade, animal or beast).

I do feel your pain though. I've entered these spaces to fully explore my sexuality as a human being and find people who try to reduce me to something subhuman.

Absolutely, I understand that some people like that. That statement was strictly my opinion. And I agree with what you saying. I just feel like it's one of those things... Okay lets say we're close friends right, my brother dies and you're there for me (I'm devastated), even go to the funeral. Next day you go bringing up my brother to me like he still around. Do I have to tell you not to do that or should you stop and think "nah, not right to do"? That's the ultimate point I'm making in regard to that statement. I'm also not of that mentally, so those that like to be called a slave may have a complete different outlook.

I'm also sorry to hear that, thanks for sharing.
 
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2304901

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I assume you're on the Recon app, because if you were on the website version you would be fully aware that 'Masters and Slaves' is a fetish category/tribe on that website. So I'm really interested to know what categories/tribes you selected to identify with, because it will give some context into why the older guy referred you as 'slave'.

Also as a leather guy, I know that there are men out there who assume you're going to be fine with being called 'Sir' 'Master' 'Sub' 'Slave' etc... without your consent! This is a massive NO! NO! Under RACK (Risk Aware Consensual Kink) and SSC (Safe Sane Consensual) ethics, you need to engage in a discussion with the person(s) you will be engaging in the fetish activity and this includes asking them what they want to be referred to. Personally I like leather sex with equal power play, I'm not into the master/slave dynamic, yet I know there are men out there of all racial backgrounds who do live that master/slave lifestyle and they do it in an ethical and mentally/physically safe way.

Also if you're going to engage with older white men, it's wise to include a discussion about race, racism and interpersonal power dynamics in your consent conversation. If they can't handle that, then they're not for you.
 
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4294991

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I was not aware of that, I'm just on the app and I'm relatively new to it. I just figured given the long history of America is stained with and what happens today, I just figured it'd be common sense to check in see if that's Okay. I'm not hitting these people up, these people are sending me DM's. So I figured you'd approach with some kind of moral compass. As I'm told all the time, I think I'm just too kind. I expect people to do the right thing because I try to see the good in everyone and be open. Had I grown up somewhere different, maybe I wouldn't feel so strongly. I also happen to be this thing called woke, so that's a factor too. I don't think the category/tribe matters, the history is the same.

Well, I appreciate that you abide by that and have that respect think like a human.

Again, no offense. I don't really... They just DM me. I try to be nice and talk a little, If I see a red flag on their profile or go into uncomfortable conversational territory, I just ignore them. Now while he apologize, the nature of it was passive. He does not understand the level of wrong, neither does he care. "your abs, do look great and I would like to test them out and see how strong they are" is all he cared about.

Thank you for your insight.
 

Den-BDSM

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Hello and thank you for sharing your perspective! Have a wall of text :) I am a moderately experienced switch (both roles, Dom and sub) and I think I've struggled with a very similar challenge until I found a solution that works for me. I identify this problem as three-fold: personal traumas being triggered in play, separation of kinky fantasy from reality and communication. I am white, but like all people on this Earth I have past traumas. And these traumas were sometimes accidentally triggered by my Doms during play, which used to cause me a great deal of emotional pain and sadness. For example I enjoy verbal humiliation during play. But when a Dom unknowingly used the insults my bullies used to torment me with in the past, it made me very upset and ruined the mood for the entire scene. And the opposite example. I enjoy military role play as a Dom, as many other people do, especially gay men. I played with quite a few military role play subs. So once I offered it to a new potential sub. He said he had negative experience in the military and asked me to never mention it again. I of course apologized and agreed. Unfortunately, simply because I even mentioned something very painful for him during the initial chat he was unable to talk to me ever again. This is how triggering past traumas can damage or ruin a BDSM experience. I am intentionally using relatively tame examples as I am not that transparent about my personal pains. Generally, re-living a trauma in a BDSM scene is a bad idea. It doesn't help heal and might even make things worse. So how do I handle it? These days if someone triggers me by accident, first I immediately moderate my inner response so that I don't get too upset. Second, I calmly and politely ask the Dom to exclude the triggering element from our interaction. I do it gently so he himself does not get upset or loose confidence. If the Dom agrees (which he should) we move on. If the Dom ignores consistently my ask, I will most likely end our connection. In this case I am not being whimsy. If during play something is truly hurting me on reality level it must be excluded. Next, in BDSM, many fantasies have horrible reality/history counterparts. Some kinky keywords to name a few in this context: military, prisoners, pain, torture, sadism, whipping, even chastity and so forth. But in reality/history and in BDSM these things mean completely different things. The purpose of BDSM is to make all sides involved happy, not sad. What will it be for you and your partners is only for you to decide. To you being called a slave in play causes real emotional pain. In a way it causes you to re-live the accumulated pain of generations of your ancestors, if I understand correctly (and forgive me if not). So in BDSM context it is not OK for you. And in reality context it is not OK for anyone. But there are many kinksters who are happy being called slaves by their chosen Doms. It brings them real happiness and joy. Would you take their happiness away from them? I think not. It is OK for them. And by the same logic, you mentioned in one of your posts you'd "like to be the victim" in play. Being referred to as a victim, or calling a sub a victim is a complete no-no for me. But for you it seems to be hot. Because in this instance you can separate the real meaning of this word from it's BDSM fantasy meaning, and I can't. Both perspectives are fine. And finally, communication. The poster above is 100% spot on. It's better to pre-negotiate the titles. It's just that some roll with the assumed titles right away to make it feel more organic. But you can and should gently correct them and good Doms will respond well to that. And you don't need not-good ones. And finally-finally: wow, you got some seriously creeeeeepy guys hitting you up :) Same here lol :)
 
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4294991

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Definitely was a wall, lol. Yeah, the perspective you illustrated is definitely linked to mine. And absolutely, no I don't know what's like being a slave (and don't plan on it, but we got that covered, lol), I understand my predecessors did not have a choice, that was their label, and once the law of the country I live in for quite a long time, started in 1619 to be exact. So naturally, it's bound to make me uncomfortable if an older white man who I would assume would know better than me to suggest such a thing.

I agree with your point regarding a discussion being had. From reading your post, you've brought up a point the I did not mention in my initial post, hence what lead to this situation in the first place. The way my profile is setup... Let me just show:
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Like, I mention nothing about being slave, a sub, anything that these men are looking for. These men are taking it upon themselves to force their wants on me through DM, not caring about the fact that I'm not even into what they're into. And yes, guys do hit me up about tickling, some are even respectful and ask certain things. But mean like the two I mentioned above, it would seem that they think they can have their way because they have money or some kind substance that gives them power over me. Now it could also just be desperate men trying to reach for something that's not obtainable, but they reach for it anyway. To be honest, I think that is truly what the really issue is.

Thank you very much for sharing, I do think this will be a progressive post discussion. Thank to everyone that's spoken so far.
 

hypolimnas

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I would say slavery still exists in the world. In the US prison labour from systemic incarceration of black men is a thing. A lot of what we import from China and India is produced in appalling conditions it is just out of sight.

I would advise making it clear in your profile that you are not looking to be a slave in any context and ask anyone who messages you to avoid racist terms. You could say you prefer an active role in bondage play.

That said a lot of people don't read profiles. The only solution is to immediately block anyone without discussion if they cross the line. You don't ever have to explain why.

Sadly there are a lot of horny idiots out there that get off on their own fantasies and are jerking off while typing their shit to you.
 
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2304901

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I would say slavery still exists in the world. In the US prison labour from systemic incarceration of black men is a thing. A lot of what we import from China and India is produced in appalling conditions it is just out of sight.

I would advise making it clear in your profile that you are not looking to be a slave in any context and ask anyone who messages you to avoid racist terms. You could say you prefer an active role in bondage play.

That said a lot of people don't read profiles. The only solution is to immediately block anyone without discussion if they cross the line. You don't ever have to explain why.

Sadly there are a lot of horny idiots out there that get off on their own fantasies and are jerking off while typing their shit to you.

I agree, on those sites block anyone who crosses the line and don't even enter into a discussion with them.
 
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4097701

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Don't black people use the same term? I'm not really part of the fetish world, but I've definitely been hit on by black guys into racial games, which are a total turn off to me. As an older white guy, I never know what the fuck I can say anymore, to the point where I'm actually afraid to talk to black people sometimes... slave is obviously not only racist, but derogatory, but some people are into it... language is a minefield, even when it's not obvious at all. At this time in the USA it's so charged with anger and hate too, people are so into getting offended about politics, race, gender etc.. and it's hard to know when to discuss it and when to avoid it completely. I feel so old and white when I hear people using all these genders, when it's quite obvious when you look at people what gender they are trying to be in public... sorry I'm derailing and I've been in isolation for almost a month lol
 
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4294991

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I'm pretty sure they do, and I question those individuals as well. If I knew them, I'd address them personally. Well, lots can be learned by simply looking back at the history and then looking at right now. That would tell a lot and put much in context that don't have to be said really. It's Okay, man. You're human.
 
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4097701

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I'm pretty sure they do, and I question those individuals as well. If I knew them, I'd address them personally. Well, lots can be learned by simply looking back at the history and then looking at right now. That would tell a lot and put much in context that don't have to be said really. It's Okay, man. You're human.
The thing is that white people are so fucking afraid of being called racist, and often we will be assumed racist, without any knowledge of a person... when it comes to sex, people freak the hell out when you are not interested, adding an angry element. Trying to navigate it is hard, even though I would never want a 'slave' or assume any black guy would. Although I did laugh my ass of at South Park when they had the character Slave, who once put Paris Hilton up his ass
 
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hypolimnas

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The thing is that white people are so fucking afraid of being called racist, and often we will be assumed racist, without any knowledge of a person... when it comes to sex, people freak the hell out when you are not interested, adding an angry element. Trying to navigate it is hard, even though I would never want a 'slave' or assume any black guy would. Although I did laugh my ass of at South Park when they had the character Slave, who once put Paris Hilton up his ass
I just watched that again on youtube - hilarious.
 
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wellhunguk

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Seems like you are having an argument with yourself.

Try not to generalise so much.

Fair enough you don't want to be called a slave, but you can't ban it from the English language.
 
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Den-BDSM

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Seems like you are having an argument with yourself.

Try not to generalise so much.

Fair enough you don't want to be called a slave, but you can't ban it from the English language.
Or, to perhaps be a bit more precise, from the fetish community.
 
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deleted1846971

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Or, to perhaps be a bit more precise, from the fetish community.
This. Sounds like the OP has an issue with the fetish. So it’s simple: avoid it and just say no thank you. Judging those based on their fetish is wrong imo. Just because I’m not turned on by Fetish X doesn’t mean shit. If it works for you then knock yourself out and cum until you pass out.
 
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