Traditional Maori penis tattoo.

[xtoxin]

"As I've also said, our knowledge of them and their history, indeed our knowledge of most 'primitive' societies is extremely limited at best, based mostly on the interpretation of mere shreds of surviving archaelogical evidence."

Oh, by the way, it's "archaeological," since we're now being the spelling police.

 

[xtoxin]

And can I see your peen, maxcok? You are being very coy.

 

[maxcok]

Most people edit after they write. Jeez, I'm so ashamed for copy-editing! What the hell are you trying to prove? And why are you counting the minutes it takes for someone to reply to this board? I couldn't care less about the Maoris, or whether or not they tattooed their penises. But for some reason, you have chosen to take a ridiculous stance here. You just seem to be gunning for a fight, about nothing. You're right -- I really don't "get it," at all. I don't get you.

You don't care about the Maori? Who exactly came in here "gunning for a fight" then? "about nothing"

What the hell are you trying to prove? You don't get me? Ahhh, I'm heartbroken.

One more post, and you'll have wasted 25% of your entire post history on this. On me. On nothing.*

I feel so special. LOL.


* [Edit: Two more posts. Let's make that 38%]

 

[Sergeant_Torpedo]

Get a grip guys. having a haka in LPSG is unseemly.

 

[maxcok]

Ka mate! Ka mate! Ka ora! Ka ora!
Ka mate! Ka mate! Ka ora! Ka ora!
Tenei te tangata puhuru huru
Nana nei i tiki mai, Whakawhiti te ra
A upane! ka upane!
A upane! ka upane!
Whiti te ra! Hi!!

 

[Howard1122]

Not to intentionally play devil's advocate, but I actually do find your invented explanation plausible. The wisdom of the ancients, including the use of botanicals available in their environment, is a vast store of knowledge long lost to 'modern' man. Who can say what they knew, what they used, and what they did? Anthropology and archaeology are inexact sciences, and often colored by theoretical assumptions viewed through the lens of contemporary existence.

In traditional times an infusion of Kawakawa was known for its aphrodisiac qualities and was used to treat erection disorders. Kawakawa was one of many plants used by Maori for medicinal purposes. This knowledge is not secret. Maori natural medicine is gaining increasing popularity today. A healthy young man would have no need for Kawakawa.

 

[Howard1122]

‘Ka Mate’ is actually a parady of Kikiki, an old Maori haka chant. Kikiki contains sexual imagery of the first encounter of a young man and consequently is quite explicit. Kikiki is itself based on an earlier chant which be traced back to the initial settlement of New Zealand and the need for those on Maori sailing vessels to pull together. The sexual references are allegories to warfare. Maori usually fought naked. An erect penis (rere ure) was a sign of courage. Kikiki was performed naked and was associated with re-unions, marriage ceremonies and peace-making.
In the ancient song , "ka mate, ka ora" was added to express the moment of physical climax and its aftermath. The ‘modern’ ‘Ka Mate’ version is attributed to the Maori chief Te Rauparaha after an incident at the Motu-o-puhi Pa (Lake Rotoaira) in 1810. He was being chased by the Ngati Te Aho and took refuge in the settlement. The Ngati Te Aho war party arrived in hot pursuit and were invited by the chief Wharerangi to search the place. He had hidden Te Rauparaha in a kumara pit with his wife, Te Rangikoaea sitting on top.
Half suffocating and with his face in the pubic hair of Te Rangikoaea Te Rauparaha recalled the words of the old haka."Kikiki kakaka,... Kei waniwania taku tara... (Shaking and quivering, I'm brushed by your crotch). Fear gripped him when he heard the war party arrive, "Ka wehi au, and he realized he was caught in a trap. "Mau au e koro e.... He thought he was done for when the chief's wife moved away. "Ka mate, ka mate... But his pursuers had departed. "Ka ora, ka ora...Instead he saw the hairy legs of the local chief who had hid him. "Tenei te tangata puhuruhuru...Exhausted, humiliated, half-suffocated and in shock, he climbed up out into the sunshine. "Whiti te ra...He gave vent to his feelings of relief by chanting the bawdy old "Kikiki" haka out loud.

Civil war gripped the land over the next 30 years. Warring factions obtained firearms from European traders in return for flax fibre and land. Te Rauparaha developed a trading and raiding base on Kapiti Island and grew in status to overlord of central New Zealand, from Whanganui to Kaikoura.

Then unimagined thousands of Europeans flooded onto the land that had been traded to them, and they started forcing their way onto Maori-owned land as well. Te Rauparaha became a respected, if feared, national leader in the Maori opposition to these foreign usurpers.

Kikiki/Ka Mate became known as Te Rauparaha's haka, as the story of his ingenious response to overwhelming odds gave this old haka a new interpretation that provided a morale booster to those facing the flood of British settlers.
The British were prudes concerning sexual stories, so they were told that the first section of the haka explained how the incantations of his enemies were absorbed by Te Rangikoaea, while the second section told how Te Rauparaha had to whisper to her to prevent her moving away to her sleeping hut to satisfy her sexually aroused husband.
In truth, Wharerangi would have had a lot more urgent matters on his mind than taking his wife away for a spot of conjugal relaxation. He was faced with a vigilante group who would have annihilated his entire village if they had got an inkling that he was assisting Te Rauparaha. However this explanation of the words allowed the haka to be used in the presence of British settlers whose distorted morality condemned sexual frankness, even though they approved of wholesale land theft.
As the years have passed by, Kikiki/Ka Mate has gone from being a haka 'about' Te Rauparaha to one 'composed by' Te Rauparaha. (Source: NZ Haka Taparapi * Kikiki)
There are three attachments. The first shows a traditional haka at Ohinemutu in 1844. The second is also from 1844 and shows Motuopuhi. The third is an artist's depiction of Te Rangikoaea hiding Te Rauparaha.

 

[silvertriumph2]

Thanks Howard...that is really interesting reading...

 

[deleted105034]

Do we have a picture of an actual human with a tattoo on his penis?

One picture like that would be worth 1000 words to me (or 2000 of MaxCok's words)

 

[bendigoboi]

I have read and looked at a lot of information regarding traditional polynesian tattoos, but have never seen any mention of tattooing of the penis - although I accept that most of those artists who documented tatoos from the time of first European encounters might not have made such sketches because of European sensibilities.

And it would be remarkable if this Marquesan's penis was unmarked:

http://www.metmuseum.org/special/Adorning_the_World/view_1.asp?item=0&view=l

Polynesian Tattoo Meanings


Although a different cultural grouping in the Pacific, there is reference right at the end of this article (Marshall Islands) to penis tattooing, but no details are available / given.

http://marshall.csu.edu.au/Marshalls/html/tattoo/frame4.html

Note also that many of the articles about the origins of guiche piercings cite "Polynesian" or "Samoan" custom (As a navigation aid - a weight was tied in and the wearer squated on his canoe with the weight in the water to "feel" the current / wave strength), but then indicate that it is unsubstantiated.

And perhaps some light relief - with apologies for the stereo-typing:

Penis Tattoos

 

[maxcok]

Do we have a picture of an actual human with a tattoo on his penis?

One picture like that would be worth 1000 words to me (or 2000 of MaxCok's words)

http://news.bmezine.com/wp-content/uploads/200708070745-pix1.jpg
http://news.bmezine.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/polynesian-penis-2.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_MYcxTUQyVLw/StRIAaLrVBI/AAAAAAAABwk/kfBRX7AM20c/s1600/IMG_0667_2.JPG
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_MYcxTUQyVLw/StRH-b7hvMI/AAAAAAAABwE/9QNHeDAa-_c/s400/IMG_0663_2.JPG
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_MYcxTUQyVLw/StRIxJX-8jI/AAAAAAAABxs/w27JdyfEn88/s400/IMG_0679_2.JPG

 

[bendigoboi]

http://news.bmezine.com/wp-content/uploads/200708070745-pix1.jpg
http://news.bmezine.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/polynesian-penis-2.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_MYcxTUQyVLw/StRIAaLrVBI/AAAAAAAABwk/kfBRX7AM20c/s1600/IMG_0667_2.JPG
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_MYcxTUQyVLw/StRH-b7hvMI/AAAAAAAABwE/9QNHeDAa-_c/s400/IMG_0663_2.JPG
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_MYcxTUQyVLw/StRIxJX-8jI/AAAAAAAABxs/w27JdyfEn88/s400/IMG_0679_2.JPG

I don't know about the first two, but I don't think the pics of Logan McCree add much to the discussion of traditional Maori tattooing (and yes - I know that TBone only asked for a "picture of an actual human with a tattoo on his penis" - but I think he meant relevant to the OP).

 

[maxcok]

I don't know about the first two, but I don't think the pics of Logan McCree add much to the discussion of traditional Maori tattooing (and yes - I know that TBone only asked for a "picture of an actual human with a tattoo on his penis" - but I think he meant relevant to the OP).

Well, people should say what they mean then.

Also, they should read for comprehension what's on the screen and not read between the lines. :wink:

Anyway, I've been enjoying what you've been adding to the discussion.

You too, Howard, welcome back.

Supposedly the second pic is a Polynesian design, but as I said before,
I don't pretend to be an expert on things if I'm not.

As for Logan, ain't he purty?

 

[bendigoboi]

The second one certainly uses Polynesian motifs in the design - but whether they are applied in a traditional location may be slightly more doubtful - for example, I'm not certain that circumcision was widespread - if this were the case, it is probably unlikely that there would have been tattooing of the glans, since the markings were genrally intended to have some significance to those who saw them (in Samoa I believe that at puberty the underside of the foreskin was cut, but the foreskin remained).

 

[green carnation]

and how do we know they are actual humans aye maxxy boy? Afterall, absence of sight of a human head is not proof there isnt a human head on those bodies.

Lets see where the thread hijacker takes the topic now... But i can guarantee it wont be towards evidence that maori tattooed their cocks.
All this rubbish about mystical ancients does not apply to maori as i have explained before, tattooing was a sacred ritual and an important part of their culture. Their culture is still well alive today, so where is penis tattooing. Out of fashion, or never in? It could exist today on either pakeha or maori cock, but would not be traditional.
Non maori tattooing themselves in maori designs is culturally insensitive, as is repeating a haka over the internet for no real reason.

See what you started howard? You can really spin a yarn. And tell us about that original photo you posted as proof of maori tattooing cocks

I had better not edit as i will get the editing and time watching police onto me.

I don't know about the first two, but I don't think the pics of Logan McCree add much to the discussion of traditional Maori tattooing (and yes - I know that TBone only asked for a "picture of an actual human with a tattoo on his penis" - but I think he meant relevant to the OP).

 

[maxcok]

and how do we know they are actual humans aye maxxy boy? Afterall, absence of sight of a human head is not proof there isnt a human head on those bodies.

Lets see where the thread hijacker takes the topic now... But i can guarantee it wont be towards evidence that maori tattooed their cocks.
All this rubbish about mystical ancients does not apply to maori as i have explained before, tattooing was a sacred ritual and an important part of their culture. Their culture is still well alive today, so where is penis tattooing. Out of fashion, or never in? It could exist today on either pakeha or maori cock, but would not be traditional.
Non maori tattooing themselves in maori designs is culturally insensitive, as is repeating a haka over the internet for no real reason.

See what you started howard? You can really spin a yarn. And tell us about that original photo you posted as proof of maori tattooing cocks

I had better not edit as i will get the editing and time watching police onto me.

My, you're a nasty one, aren't you? Yes, you've already told us what a great expert you are on Maori culture, and how you know all there is to know about their practices from the dawn of time to the present day.

Although you also said it was a "maximum bore", so I'm a little puzzled why you would call it "culturally insensitive" to post a haka on the internet.

Actually, I'm surprised you'd show yourself here again at all after you laid out your credentials . . . .

well actually. Now that you mention it, i have studied maori culture. At university level. In new zealand..
Maximum bore, have you ever met a maori or even been to new zealand? I lived there for 30 years.

. . . . explained your thesis and research methods . . . .

I am not going to repeat my point again about families and tribes passing traditions down through the generations and that the only reason this was not passed down is because it cant have been prevalent in the first place. Even if only one tribe did it- decendents of that tribe would know about it today.

. . . . then immediately and completely discredited yourself with this totally erroneous statement on the most basic and fundamental of terms:

And by the way; moko are specifically chin tattoos. On women! I dont know what web sites you are getting your information from. Maybe you learnt that in your tangata whenua studies at university?

Amazingly, you did that all in one post, nothing added, nothing taken away. Almost gave me whiplash.

Maybe you should go back to your studies.

 

[rubbernuts]

I'm not going to claim knowledge of whether the Maori men had their penises tattooed or not.

However I can state for certain that an erection is not necessary during the tattooing process. [It is helpful whilst laying out the design.] For the actual inking one simply stretches the skin while the artist does his thing.

Nor is sophisticated [i.e. electric] equipment required.

Strictly as my opinion - I think its quite likely any 'tribe' that was into extensive tattooing of its 'elders' would have included tattooing of the symbol of male virility!

 

[jujube]

However I can state for certain that an erection is not necessary during the tattooing process. [It is helpful whilst laying out the design.] For the actual inking one simply stretches the skin while the artist does his thing.

Congratulations! You have a brain.

Several pages of comments have been wasted on this thread because maxcok and a few other members have failed to notice that the original point of contention is the OP's claim that Maori men necessarily have had their penes tattooed while erect.

 

[maxcok]

And I would like to state once again for the record: I never claimed any knowledge that they tattooed their genitals, nor even suggested that they did. I think it's entirely possible, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least, but it is unknowable.

Anyone who claims to know categorically that they did not, is simply talking out of their ass.

Congratulations! You have a brain.

Several pages of comments have been wasted on this thread because maxcok and a few other members have failed to notice that the original point of contention is the OP's claim that Maori men necessarily have had their penes tattooed while erect.

What the hell are you even talking about? What a ridiculous deflection. We have discussed the possibility of natural erectile enhancers, but it was tangential. We passed that exit long ago and moved on. Try to keep up.

Why is it you and your little green friend always show up to support each other at exactly at the same time? Very odd. You're not a multiple account user are you? You know that's grounds for immediate banning, right?

 

[green carnation]

breaking the rules?
Who dear?
Me dear?
No dear.

Sorry if you thought i was being nasty maxxy, truly, i was just winding you up and knew you would take the bait.

I enjoy your posts, you are clearly one of the most intelligent members here and keep the discussions lively. However your latest theory about me and someone else being the same is as preposterous as some other things you have said. If i get banned it will not be for this.

My objection to you is that you did wade in boots and all saying it was possible. And of course you are right, anything is possible. But it does not make sense that, within an oral culture, something that was important was not passed down through the generations when everything else was.
Simple as that.
Anyway i apologise to everyone else for boring them and having to repeat myself