Trolling

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Speculator

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Ok I've got a clearer picture of what is going on now. Maxcok; the guy that labels me "the King of Trolls" enraged another poster and when they responded in kind they were temporarily banned.

This is the same guy that was accused of "deliberately looking for a fight" by another poster on a thread completely unrelated to the politics section because of his trademark in-your-face style. (I assumed this approach was confined to the political threads, how naive!)

I think I may have spotted the catalyst for 90% of the "trollish" behaviour in this forum.
 
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D_Tim McGnaw

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Right, lets get one thing absolutely straight. No one should use this thread to hash out their mind numbingly boring and frankly pretty pathetic personal animosities.

Is that clear?
 

Speculator

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Right, lets get one thing absolutely straight. No one should use this thread to hash out their mind numbingly boring and frankly pretty pathetic personal animosities.

Is that clear?


You should be careful, it looks like you're giving this guy carte blanche to go around bullying and intimidating other posters as if he's the moderating team's personal pit bull.

Something's not right about that, especially when you attempt to cut off the right to reply.
 

D_Tim McGnaw

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You should be careful, it looks like you're giving this guy carte blanche to go around bullying and intimidating other posters as if he's the moderating team's personal pit bull.

Something's not right about that, especially when you attempt to cut off the right to reply.


Speculator, my advice was aimed at everyone.


And you have excercised your right to reply ad nauseum thanks.


Edit: And just so we're clear, Max hasn't even posted in this thread, so yuo're clearly just bringing your personal animosity to bear here. Which I expressly advised against.
 
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nudeyorker

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I've posted something similar to this elsewhere but I think it might be time for everyone in this forum to consider this...
1. This is an adult site
2. We are graded by adult site watch groups on our content.
3. The owner of the site made the rules regarding content and behavior.
4.The moderators are legally responsible for the content of the site.
5. If you can't live with this you are free to leave.
 

nudeyorker

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My guess is the core of the problem is that almost everyone is a volunteer/amateur here. The site's staff isn't even remotely organized and held accountable like a 'real world' organization would its management. This site is surely worth low seven figures, and should be managed as such.

It would curl your hair to know exactly the level of professionalism and the educational/professional backgrounds of the members of the staff here. So as you are just guessing and letting off steam, why don't you go back to the site that you claim to moderate... really you won't be missed.
:wave:
 

D_Tim McGnaw

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Look, some of your advice is interesting, some of it not. Your insults are a laugh frankly, and your assessment of the way the site is moderated is speculative at best, and wholly ignorant at worst.


If I were you I wouldn't be rubbishing a system which you (in common with many others) have directly benefited from.
 

Drifterwood

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I think that the Moderators do a very good job in the Politics forum. It is an innately difficult forum to moderate as has been explained.

For those who have fallen off their chairs, yes, I said I think that the Mods do a good job here.

If I can add anything to the discussion, it would be that I see trolling in this forum rather like murder and manslaughter, or the difference between murder in the first and second degrees. To be more specific, does someone post or start a thread with the intention of trolling, or does someone troll in response to a discussion in which they have become involved, or wish to be involved. The latter is of course difficult to know.

Then there is the difficulty of distinguishing various debating tactics. I am personally not innocent of being deliberately inflammatory in order to ascertain someone's real opinion. I think that this is justifiable as some people with unpleasant views (IMO) can be quite clever in covering them in seemingly reasonable POVs. Prejudices are easily masked and perpetuated in this manner.
 

SilverTrain

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[Hours later, after a decent bit of exercise...]

So I vented my frustrations.

I don't want to irritate the moderators of this site.

Irritation at watching troll(s) repeatedly get his(their) "provocation jollies" has evaporated for the time being.

Note to self for future: reminder to ignore, ignore, ignore.......
 

nudeyorker

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[Hours later, after a decent bit of exercise...]

So I vented my frustrations.

I don't want to irritate the moderators of this site.

Irritation at watching troll(s) repeatedly get his(their) "provocation jollies" has evaporated for the time being.

Note to self for future: reminder to ignore, ignore, ignore.......

Thank you for saying that, but for whatever it's worth you don't have to worry about irritating the moderators. We are fair and we have had to vote to ban people that we like and we have had to vote to have no action on people that we don't like. I don't think most people take this into consideration but if we don't do what we are supposed to the owner of the site would tell us buh-bye!
But not irritating the moderators would be a nice thing, we are really busy working to keep the site legal and that is our chief concern.
 

houtx48

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Last time the moderators gave this forum a makeover they about killed it and last week when there was a little lively discussion I knew this was going to happen. Close it down don't give the whining trolls a place to to act out. However it's almost guaranteed they will move else where on the site.
 

maxcok

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I agree with most of what was posted in the beginning of this thread, in particular posts #3 through #10, so I won't rehash any of that. My only noteworthy point of disagreement would be with ST's suggestion of deleting offending posts, for the reasons Aconitum outlined.

I know that ST, VB, I, and others speak for many when we express our frustration at posters who continue to be deliberately provocative, derailing threads, running good discussions into the ditch, rarely engaging in honest discussion or contributing anything of substance to the thread, but exhibiting a consistent, persistent pattern of trollish behavior. I know for a fact that many interesting and valued posters have significantly curtailed their involvement in the forum for this very reason, and many who used to post regularly have left entirely. It looks like my friend, now renamed 'Harvey Schmeckel', may be the latest casualty. I've given more than passing thought to disengaging myself.

I understand that it's more challenging to define "trolling" in the heated atmosphere of the Politics forum, especially as I believe the Mods, most of them at any rate, try very hard not to be biased - politically, personally or otherwise. I think what makes that job even harder is that some of the trolls among us are in the habit of deflectively, disingenuosly howling that they are under "personal attack" for their ideology rather than their trollish behavior whenever anyone calls them on it, the same as they whine that criticizing them or their ideology is "hate speech", when it's nothing remotely close to that. A few it seems instinctively know how to skate right on the line of punishable offenses without appearing to cross over, at least to the casual observer. The heat in the forum is inevitable and unavoidable, especially given the divisive political climate we live in. But there's a clear difference between heated, even insulting rhetoric, which most of us have engaged in to some degree at one time or another, vs. just stirring up shit to get attention and piss people off, and insulting people for no reason other than you despise them for their politics.

My suggestion is that when questions arise, rather than focusing on individual posts or even individual threads, the Mods take a longer, wider view. Consider the posting history when determining whether a particular poster exhibits a consistent pattern of being deliberately provocative and disrupting threads vs. a poster who takes a strong position, stands up for it, may even fight back, while also trying to contribute to the forum overall. I might also suggest you consider having a smaller core group of Mods to monitor the Politics forum, those who have an interest in and understanding of politics, and who feel they are well versed enough in the current political landscape to understand the nuances in the exchanges. This core group could advise the others in the event action was required of the whole team.

I know we've all covered much of this ground before. What may be different this time around is a phenomenon that I and many other regular contributors have observed taking place over the past several months. In addition to the usual longterm offenders, there appears to be an influx, perhaps from other websites, of new particularly combative, aggressive, and obnoxious hard right-wing posters whose primary mission seems to be stirring up shit. They aren't inclined to address posters they disagree with as individuals, rather they denigrate, insult, and lump together anyone and everyone on the board who holds a different view as "all you stupid fucking socialist libertard idiots", or similar epithets. They are particularly venomous and unrelenting in their attacks and provocations, and they fight dirty and dishonestly. Their vitriol seems not directed at the ideas and opinions of those to the "left" of them, but directed at their very being. They reflect a mindset described in a column by Peter Daou I referenced in another post: "The imbalance is stark: Democrats and liberals rail against the right’s ideas; the right rails against the left’s very existence."

I've said many times before, and I'll say it again: I know the Mods don't have an easy job of it, especially in the Politics forum, I wouldn't want it, and I don't envy you. I hope I speak for others when I say I appreciate what you do, and I can only hope and trust you do your best to be fair, objective, and unbiased. As far as I can tell, the current crop seems as fairhanded as ever in the relatively short time I've been here. As Pendlum and others have observed, most of us regulars do not mind some heat in the forum, it is after all a reflection of the times. However, what we do mind is blatant, persistent, disruptive trolling by a few individuals who drive valued members away and prevent any meaningful discussion from taking place.
 
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maxcok

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Ok I've got a clearer picture of what is going on now. Maxcok; the guy that labels me "the King of Trolls" enraged another poster and when they responded in kind they were temporarily banned.

This is the same guy that was accused of "deliberately looking for a fight" by another poster on a thread completely unrelated to the politics section because of his trademark in-your-face style. (I assumed this approach was confined to the political threads, how naive!)
I hope I may beg indulgence of the members and moderators to offer a brief "right of reply", as the poster refers to it. I have no clue what incident(s) Spec is referring to here, whether real or imagined. The only person I'm aware of who's been temp banned in recent memory is a friend of mine. I further find the characterizations of "in-your-face" and "looking for a fight" to be both hypocritical and ironic.

As Aconitum succinctly explained, accusing someone of being a troll, who is in fact unquestionably a troll, is not trolling, in the same way accusing someone of slander, who is in fact a slanderer, is not slander.

To wit, one should not make vague spurious accusations and innuendoes as the poster has done, unless one is prepared to back them up with solid evidence. Otherwise, one might be seen to be continuing a pattern of trollish behavior. And slander.

I think I may have spotted the catalyst for 90% of the "trollish" behaviour in this forum.
You must have been looking here. Is it good to be the King?
 

houtx48

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In essence what needs to happen is for some to grow a pair, stop your whiny tattling and if you are so majorly offended stop reading this forum. And for someone to decide to delete posts is ludicrous. Keeping in mind this is a big dick web site anything said in a political forum probably have much sway in the main stream.
 
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