Trouble at work, I'm quitting, I have questions.

[lowteg]

I would defiantly get out of their man...

Sounds like a very dissatisfying work environment when your not been listened to.

If you don't mind me asking what type of machinery is this?

 

[hockeyguy741]

I agree with most of the advice you've gotten ...I've witnessed the same thing in the work place, where it's not what you know it's who you know

Always leave on a positive note.... remember you may want to use them as a referance

Being happy with what you do for a living is extremly important, if your unable to find work in the same field think about how you can apply what you know to another line of work, basicly reinvent yourself

I hope your successful in finding a new job and don't get discouraged if you can't, good luck and let me know how things go for you

 

[2322]

I'm going to begin by acknowledging that RedScrotum may be right and that if you stick it out, things may improve for you. However, I know from experience that if you stick it out, you run the risk of things not improving. In fact, they could get much, much worse. Tom (and Sara) can do a lot of damage before they go, not only to the company, but to your reputation and career. So I'm going to agree with Jason, and Viking, and the majority of other people here and advise that if you have other job prospects, you should leave now before things get worse.

Several years ago I was single-handedly running two projects, which should have been handled by a 3-person team. Looking back on it, I don't know how I did it. I must have been a friggin' miracle worker. But no one ever seemed to notice how hard I worked, or how much I did, or how many miracles I performed. Then, one day, out of blue, I was given a surprise raise and told how pleased everyone was with my work. My supervisor hinted that the company wanted to groom me for a promotion, saying that he wanted to increase my responsibilities, and talking about new challenges and opportunities. He also promised to hire additional staff to help me.

Instead they hired a young woman fresh out of grad school, with a Ph.D. in the field, but no experience. Instead of promoting me to Project Director as I had expected, they gave her the position, and I was "asked" to stay where I was on a "temporary" basis, until the project could be transitioned to her. They promised to move me on to "bigger and better" things as soon as possible.

That's the precise moment you should have left and found another position. Everyone else heed this as a warning. If this ever happens to you, get out there and then. Don't ever believe promises that go unfulfilled. Once is enough and you can bet that Miss PhD knew you were gunning for her job so she wanted you out. Oh the things I've learned working in the corporate world!

You have my profound sympathies Meniscus.

 

[Viking_UK]

Meniscus, that's awful. You really have my sympathies. It happens so often though. I just can't understand why people make these mistakes.

I had a similar experience years ago. I'd been with a small media company since it started. I'd worked there for two years and was promoted to supervisor for my department. Everything went well for a year. We were making a profit and had a good reputation with all of our clients. Then the boss left. His replacement was a young woman who'd been a supervisor at a cultural heritage centre for about a year and who was maybe five years older than me at the time. (I was 23.) How she got the job I don't know because a lot of more experienced people applied but were turned down in her favour.

Anyway, a week into her new job, she called me into her office and told me that with only three staff, my department wasn't big enough to merit a supervisor so she was taking my title. However, she still expected me to run the department, handle the budget, deal with clients and drum up more business but with none of my previous authority. I had to get her approval before making any decisions or taking on new business. It was a joke. I'd have to make three or four calls to clients during negotiations over pricing because I'd have to get her approval before closing a deal and she always wanted to change the terms.

I stuck it out for six months, but in the end, I had to get out of there because it was affecting my confidence as well as my reputation. Soon after I left, my department disappeared because they lost all their clients. The company is still going, but operates in a reduced capacity and on a much smaller scale. After ten years with another company, I'm now running my own operation, and, oddly enough, have many of my former clients from the old days, which is quite gratifying.

 

[Principessa]

Crece, I'm sorry for your situation but it sounds like you are doing the right thing. I would take the advice of some of the more experienced folks on this site and proceed as you have planned.

Good luck on your interview!

I suggest you stay and keep doing your best at what you do. Sarah and/or Tom could (and should) be gone tomoorw. I know how frustrated you are, but you're speculating on what may happen. They may have plans to promote you up to a higher postion. I can tell it's been a rough few months, but it all pays the same, whether Tom is in your dept, or not. If I were you, I'd hang in there for the long haul, and watch what happens. I would also go to your interview, you can never have too many options.

I have to disagree. These situations rarely if ever work out for the best. If Crece stays one of two things will happen. He will either be replaced/demoted by this dumb kid or he will become physically ill from the stress of working with/for a moron. Ulcers, heart disease, and strokes are often stress related.

 

[nudeyorker]

Bad Boss + Bad working conditions = no future! Good luck with your interview. You always know when It's time to go.

 

[Meniscus]

...you can bet that Miss PhD knew you were gunning for her job so she wanted you out. Oh the things I've learned working in the corporate world!

That's what I thought, too, but the company spun it the other way: I was gunning for her job, and I wanted her out. You see, before she even came along they knew I wanted a promotion and was working hard to get it, so I didn't hide my surprise or disappointment when they told me that they were putting her in charge of the project for which I'd already been functioning unofficially as the "acting" project director for several months. I wasn't unprofessional about it; I didn't get angry or upset or rude. I simply expressed my interest in taking on new challenges and my confidence in my ability to do more for the company. My supervisor agreed with me, apparently sincerely, and assured me the situation was temporary until we could get her trained and hire new staff. (Later I was told that they simply couldn't afford to move me, since I had been on the project longer than anyone else, and I knew all the details of the project better than anyone else. Ironically, Miss PhD never took advantage of my knowledge and experience on the project. Instead, she seemed very determined to do everything differently, and almost always went against my recommendations. But it was still my fault when things went wrong.)

Anyway, the point I'm leading up to is this: Did I resent her for getting the position I wanted, and which I believed I had earned? Hell, yes. Did I try to undermine her or sabotage her, perhaps even unconsciously? Absolutely not. I knew it wasn't her fault that she was hired into the position that I wanted, so I did my best to hide my resentment, to treat her with nothing but respect, and to be as helpful and supportive of her as I could. I bent over backwards to please her. I got nothing but criticism in return. The harder I tried, the more displeased she became, and the more "mistakes" she found. Honestly, I didn't know what to do.

Also, whatever issues I had with her, I was determined not to let affect the project--that project is my baby, and I pride myself on the quality and integrity of my work and the service I provide to the client and customers.

But nothing worked, then she got me bumped from a conference that I'd been preparing for months. I went to HR. At that point, I felt I had nothing to lose.

Of course, she had already been to them about me. They told me that they believed that the problem was that I had trouble working under a woman and that I was "playing games," perhaps unconsciously (they gave me the benefit of the doubt there), in an effort to undermine her.

For those of you who don't know me, the attitude they accused me of having goes against my most deeply held beliefs and values. I was so insulted I almost quit right then and there. (In my heart, I did quit.) I fought my desire to storm out and never come back...and I have regretted it ever since.

The bitch of it is, their version of the story is completely plausible. People are passed over for promotions all the time, sometimes with good reason, and they don't always like or get along with the new boss. Regardless of whether or not the new boss is competent, a resentful employee can exhibit all sorts of passive-aggressive behaviors. I knew that I wasn't letting my resentfulness get the better of me, but how could I prove that? I couldn't. But it really bothered me (and still does) that after three great years at the company, they didn't know me better than that. Prior to that time, I got along really well with my colleagues, and I thought I had earned their trust and respect. Did no one realize what was really going on? Did no one think, "Meniscus has been doing a great job for years, and the project ran smoothly for several months under his direction, so Meniscus's evaluation of the situation is probably correct, and the recent failures on this project are most likely due to Miss PhD's lack of leadership, poor interpersonal skills, micromanagement, etc., etc."

From what I've heard since then, corporate psychology doesn't work that way. If there's an issue between a supervisor and a subordinate, the company's default position is to take the supervisor's side, and to place the burden on the subordinate to adapt to his superiors, no matter how unreasonable they are.

Looking back on it, part of me still can't believe it. It's just so wrong.

You have my profound sympathies Meniscus.

Thank you, jason. Even though this all happened years ago, it's nice to have someone hear my side, and understand where I'm coming from.

 

[Meniscus]

Meniscus, that's awful. You really have my sympathies. It happens so often though. I just can't understand why people make these mistakes.

Thanks, Viking. For what it's worth, you have my sympathies as well. I can particularly relate to having to go to the boss for approval on every little thing, and then having that approval be difficult to get while they second-guess every decision. I'm glad to hear you're running your own operation now, and have the satisfaction of working with many of your former clients.

 

[2322]

I think Meniscus, you've hit it on the head and it's one of the toughest lessons to learn. The boss, despite movies like Working Girl, is never wrong. Even if they knew they made a huge mistake, canning her would mean they made a mistake. That's why bad managers tend to get promoted or moved laterally rather than fired outright. Firing management always looks bad when it's a performance issue.

The goal of bosses isn't to accomplish things for the company so much as to accomplish things for themselves. This is why the most logical, the most beneficial thing for the company, is not always a consideration; in fact it's rarely a consideration. People get ahead by currying favor with other winners who will help each other along to get the plum jobs. That is if anyone stays long enough. Most people now in the US do not rise through the ranks of any one company. They get promoted by getting jobs above their current position elsewhere. Sometimes even within the same company.

Success in business depends upon relationships and rarely upon performance. Sad but true.

 

[MarkLondon]

Success in business depends upon relationships and rarely upon performance. Sad but true.

Yep, very true. And unfortunately relationships at work are often little better than relationships in the playground. It took me a while to realise that bullies don't disappear when they leave school, they become managers! Not all managers are bullies, but most of the poor ones are.

As a competent, flexible and adaptable technical worker I've rarely had problems with my performance. But boy have I had problems with managers who feel threatened by my abilities.

The worst case, about 15 years ago, was a humdinger. A head of department who was clearly incompetant, had a drinking problem (lunchtime drinking!), mainly used nepotism to staff the department with his cronies on temporary contracts (I was the only worker who'd been through the permanent staff selection process). Things were so obviously wrong I thought it would work out if I could just hang on and do my job well. Plus it was a public sector job and had a very good pension and, theoretically, job security.

But guess who it was that was put through the disciplinary procedures and eventually forced out? Yep, me. Not him. Turned out he was a long-time friend of the deputy head of the organisation, which is how he probably got the job in the first place. Lol, if I'd "joined the gang" instead of trying to do a good job I'd probably be early-retired on that fat pension now.

 

[SpeedoMike]

As a former human resources manager, I agree in general with all the comments made so far. You need to rationally look at all your options and then make a decision about what you want to pursue. Then stick to it.

Even if the company counters an offer you receive, realize that the conditions probably won't change. When management makes irrational personnel decisions because of friendship, discrimination, or politics, expect the working conditions will get worse.

It's important that you be in control of the situation rather than be the victim. Voluntarily quit on your terms before you get fired. Do your best to hang in there and do a good job while looking. Give notice (two weeks is typical, although not required if your employment is at-will) only after you have received (in writing, preferably) a job offer and accepted it.

If you are lucky, your co-workers will give you a going away party and a useless gift (leather briefcase?) to take to the new job. :smile:

If you PM me, I can give some help on seeking a new position.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

To the Dude With New PhD boss...

Have you considered that she was hired at a salary less that yours and getting rid of you is her first cost reduction assignment? Believe me, it happens all the time.

 

[2322]

Always great to have a pro's opinion.

Interesting take on the new hire situation. I hadn't considered it but it makes sense.

I agree that counteroffers are useless. Maybe you know the exact number, but something like 4 out of 5 people who accept a counteroffer don't last longer than a year. They're either forced out when it's convenient for the employer or, as Mike said, they found the conditions too intolerable to stay.

As a former human resources manager, I agree in general with all the comments made so far. You need to rationally look at all your options and then make a decision about what you want to pursue. Then stick to it.

Even if the company counters an offer you receive, realize that the conditions probably won't change. When management makes irrational personnel decisions because of friendship, discrimination, or politics, expect the working conditions will get worse.

It's important that you be in control of the situation rather than be the victim. Voluntarily quit on your terms before you get fired. Do your best to hang in there and do a good job while looking. Give notice (two weeks is typical, although not required if your employment is at-will) only after you have received (in writing, preferably) a job offer and accepted it.

If you are lucky, your co-workers will give you a going away party and a useless gift (leather briefcase?) to take to the new job. :smile:

If you PM me, I can give some help on seeking a new position.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

To the Dude With New PhD boss...

Have you considered that she was hired at a salary less that yours and getting rid of you is her first cost reduction assignment? Believe me, it happens all the time.

 

[Meniscus]

I think Meniscus, you've hit it on the head and it's one of the toughest lessons to learn. The boss, despite movies like Working Girl, is never wrong. Even if they knew they made a huge mistake, canning her would mean they made a mistake. That's why bad managers tend to get promoted or moved laterally rather than fired outright. Firing management always looks bad when it's a performance issue.

That's my sense of the situation as well. Miss PhD looked good on paper (you know, PhD and all) and I'll admit she was good with clients on the phone (although it's a good thing the clients couldn't see the faces she was making). Clearly the company was invested in her and was willing to give her every opportunity to succeed. It still hurts, though, that they essentially picked her over me, and didn't even seem to have the slightest difficulty making that choice.

I didn't mention it earlier, since my previous posts were already rather long, but she was originally hired to work on another, larger project, under two senior directors. I found out much later that the reason they moved her to my project that her first team thought she was obnoxious and couldn't stand working with her, and her seniors thought she was a "little Miss Know-It-All" who had the gall to question the way they did things and was constantly trying to tell them they were running the project wrong.

HR in its infinite wisdom decided the solution was to move her to a smaller project that was lacking an official director. I suppose I might have done the same thing in their position. It was probably worth a shot. Looking back on it, I wonder if they expected me to train her the way I had trained my previous supervisor (the guy she had an affair with and to whom she is now married). If that's the case, I tried, but unlike every other supervisor I worked with, she was particularly stubborn and set in her ways, proving to be untrainable.

I sometimes wonder if that was my real failure, not failing to do my work well, but failing to manage her.

 

[Meniscus]

To the Dude With New PhD boss...

Have you considered that she was hired at a salary less that yours and getting rid of you is her first cost reduction assignment? Believe me, it happens all the time.

Honestly, no, that never occurred to me. I wasn't exactly making a huge salary at the time. (I'm still not. In fact, I suspect that I'm grossly underpaid.) But it's true that they didn't need both of us. What they needed was someone in charge of the project, and an entry-level assistant or two. It seems strange to me that they'd be willing to let go one of their best employees (I can say that with honestly and without arrogance), rather than finding another position for me, but I also have to acknowledge that there wasn't really anything else available at the time.

If you PM me, I can give some help on seeking a new position.

I may take you up on that.

 

[Crece]

**UPDATE**

Hey guys, to begin I'd like to say thanks for the support that the post'ers here gave.

I'm writing to tell you guys that after 3 interviews with the same company I got the job! I'm getting my desired compensation, benefits (something my current job didn't offer), and the opportunity for profit sharing.

I'm very happy, I quit yesterday and things are looking good.

woot!

 

[cockoloco]

**UPDATE**

Hey guys, to begin I'd like to say thanks for the support that the post'ers here gave.

I'm writing to tell you guys that after 3 interviews with the same company I got the job! I'm getting my desired compensation, benefits (something my current job didn't offer), and the opportunity for profit sharing.

I'm very happy, I quit yesterday and things are looking good.

woot!

Congratulations!

I was certain that you would be valued and appreciated in another job!

If you're having a New Job party, I want to be there!

 

[MarkLondon]

woot! WOOT! WOOT!!!

 

[Meniscus]

That's great news, Crece! I'm very happy for you (and envious). Best of luck to you.

 

[2322]

**UPDATE**

Hey guys, to begin I'd like to say thanks for the support that the post'ers here gave.

I'm writing to tell you guys that after 3 interviews with the same company I got the job! I'm getting my desired compensation, benefits (something my current job didn't offer), and the opportunity for profit sharing.

I'm very happy, I quit yesterday and things are looking good.

woot!

SWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETTTT!!!!!!! :clap:

 

[Sklar]

If you can, give us an update on how bad things went downhill since you left.

Just for the glee factor :biggrin1:

Sklar