True about Muslim populations?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by B_nyvin, Jan 31, 2011.

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  1. B_nyvin

    B_nyvin New Member

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    As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part being regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:

    United States -- Muslim 0.6%
    Australia -- Muslim 1.5%
    Canada -- Muslim 1.9%
    China -- Muslim 1.8%
    Italy -- Muslim 1.5%
    Norway -- Muslim 1.8%

    At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. This is happening in:

    Denmark -- Muslim 2%
    Germany -- Muslim 3.7%
    United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%
    Spain -- Muslim 4%
    Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%

    From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:

    France -- Muslim 8%
    Philippines -- 5%
    Sweden -- Muslim 5%
    Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%
    The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%
    Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%

    At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world. When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris , we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam, and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam , with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections, in:

    Guyana -- Muslim 10%
    India -- Muslim 13.4%
    Israel -- Muslim 16%
    Kenya -- Muslim 10%
    Russia -- Muslim 15%

    After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:

    Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%

    At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:

    Bosnia -- Muslim 40%
    Chad -- Muslim 53.1%
    Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%

    From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and ***ya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in:

    Albania -- Muslim 70%
    Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%
    Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%
    Sudan -- Muslim 70%

    After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:

    Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%
    Egypt -- Muslim 90%
    Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%
    Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%
    Iran -- Muslim 98%
    Iraq -- Muslim 97%
    Jordan -- Muslim 92%
    Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%
    Pakistan -- Muslim 97%
    Palestine -- Muslim 99%
    Syria -- Muslim 90%
    Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%
    Turkey -- Muslim 99.8%
    United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%

    100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-es-Salaam' -- the Islamic House of Peace. Here there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrasses are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in:

    Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%
    Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%
    Somalia -- Muslim 100%
    Yemen -- Muslim 100%

    Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons. These nations typically become cesspools of terrorist and radical extremist violence, even directed at other countries.
     
  2. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Although I don't think your intentions were bad, this thread the potential to fly WAY off the handle.

    Besides, all one has to do is change the religion and the projected results in regards to terrorism and radicalism would remain the same. The only notable changes would be the order of the countries. There will always be a country that has less of a certain number of radicals & fundamentalists than others, depending on the religion you want to target. This is not a good benchmark to use to measure potential terrorist attacks.
     
  3. B_nyvin

    B_nyvin New Member

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    Hardly. Besides christainity is the only other religion that isn't mostly exclussive to 1 country. And you can hardly say nations with 100% christain populations are similar to 100% islamic nations.
     
  4. arthur

    arthur New Member

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    Who am I to debate, but where exactly are you getting your 'facts'. Or what is certainly presented in your post as 'fact'.

    Call me old fashioned but when I went to higher education, one certainly had to back up 'truths' presented in this manner. Shocking bit of journalism.
     
  5. luka82

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    I have a problem with your concept of Dar es Salaam, or Dar al Islam, as it`s maybe better known. To be more accurate,when Muslim scholars talk about Dar es Salaam, they actually talk about a region where a muslim is FREE to practice his own religion, it doesn`t have to be an area with 100% Muslims. I think that`s how Abu Hanifa has definied that term, although, and I`m not sure, the term may be in the Kuran as well.
     
  6. luka82

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    Vatican?
     
  7. Industrialsize

    Staff Member Moderator Gold Member

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    Did you compile this yourself or did you find it elsewhere?

    I'd like to see the source of your information. Otherwise your OP is meaningless.
     
    #7 Industrialsize, Jan 31, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2011
  8. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    That's a very short sided way to view the statistics.
    There are roughly 200 countries in the world, yet the only instances you could draw up that show a completely 100% Muslim population were four. That's barely 2% of the entire world, and one cannot honestly draw a conclusion as to which religion is less violent or less prone to terrorism based on that. Case in point, let's look at the United States -

    There are clearly more Christians in America than Muslims. Therefore, we'll have more fundamental or radical Christians in our country just based on simple numbers. - The largest religion in the US is Christianity, practiced by the majority of the population (76% in 2008). From those queried, roughly 51.3% of Americans are Protestants, 25% are Catholics, and 1.7% are Mormons (the name commonly used to refer to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints), and 1.7% to various other Christian denominations. Christianity was introduced during the period of European colonization.

    Many people in our own country believe that America is a "Christian Nation". And although our country isn't 100% under the guise of any religion, you can see that as soon as the statistics are no longer about Muslims and are targeting a completely different religious demographic, the number of terrorist instances in our country go up. That's because a country is more prone to have domestic attacks than international ones. Here's a short history of domestic terrorism in our country. There's plenty of instances to choose from, and most of these were conducted by other "Christians" - Domestic terrorism in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    So the study you provided is factually distorted and dishonest. I think I know what you're trying to say, but that study you sourced doesn't focus on the real issues surrounding terrorism.
     
  9. Popozuda

    Popozuda Active Member

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    Well in reference to the question in the title, "True about Muslim populations?," I'd say the assertions made in the post are false. The percentage of Muslims in a countries really has nothing to do with how the country will conduct itself. All of these countries have diverse and uniques histories and political situations and political Islam may or may not have much to do with the present situation of the country.

    Going through the countries mentioned I see that many countries categorized as a certain way is totally baseless based on my experience in those countries, i.e. Ethiopia, Trinidad and Tobago, Qatar, etc. I won't go into detail about specific country categorizations but many (if not all) are way off from the real situation in the country.

    I think for a lot of non-Muslims its easy to get caught up with the idea of political Islam and the vilification of Muslims, but in many places inhabited by Muslims, Islam is just part of the cultural background and doesn't have much bearing on the politics of the place.
     
  10. MikeBD

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    **Opinion**
    I'm inclined to think that Islam is in somewhat of a Dark Age. While their is a moderate element to the religion Im starting to see the a lot of the more conservative factions digging their heels in the sand so to speak. While there is very little difference between Christianity and Islam, It looks like some Muslims have started to twist the religion to control the populations of the Arab, North African and Asian worlds much like the christian church did to Europe during the dark ages. Pity too for like 300 years this religion was pumping out awesome science math and astrological accomplishments faster than anyone at the time.

    Its a shame, because this religion is no worse than any other religion but now we have people making posts like this. Here is the problem I have with this post. All you do is post the muslims populations in the country and then blame that one Factor for the unproven facts you give about the country.

    Using this Logic I could say (***I am not saying this this is just a model to prove why this logic is bad***) The jewish people were the reason for the fall of The German Army in WWII In The Start Germany was doing Awesome Then Hitler moved All these Jewish People to Germany and BAM they Start to lose! Thus The Jewish people Cause Countries To lose wars!

    We have to look at each individual country and look at all the factors affecting the country not the muslim population and then draw conclusions.

    I want to know what you guys think though about my first opinion on islam, do you believe Islam is in its own Dark Ages? Or do you believe it is just a violent based religion.

    P.S. Im an Atheist i dont know if that matters I think they are all dumb but interesting to say the least.
     
  11. Jason

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    The OP's post may be provocative, or may just be thought provoking.

    I assume that the percentages are a reasonable statement of the number of moslems in each country (certainly they don't strike me as implausible, though I've made no effort to check them). The provocation in the post comes not from the figures but with the bald statements about each group. It does seem clear that some individual countries breach the description given to them - eg Turkey.

    It occurs to me that it would be possible to group countries by the percentage of moslems within them (as has been done above) then correlate this against the Human Development Index - thus avoiding the provocation of the bald judgments offered. It seems very likely that there is a demonstrable inverse link (which can be shown to be statistically valid) between the proportion of moslems and the Human Development Index.

    Once a statistically valid link between these two sets of figures has been established (as surely it would be, though I've not done the maths) it becomes reasonable to ask if there is a cause and effect relationship, or if they are merely a coincidence. Given that Islam has been around for a very long time the potential cause and effect relationship which may (or may not) be demonstrated is that Islam causes a low score on the HDI (it may of course be one cause among many, as not all low HDI countries are moslem).

    I suspect the whole issue is something our politicians feel they cannot touch. I rather think a statistician could in an hour demonstrate that there is an overwhelming link between high %moslem and low HDI and would suggest a causative link as the probable explanation (with a high degree of probability). The problem is how any nation or society would use such information. In a perfect world it would lead to a measured discussion leading to constructive policies. In our real world I'm not such an optimist. It is therefore dangerous knowledge to be locked up.
     
  12. maxcok

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    Thirded.
     
  13. vince

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    You state that- "The provocation in the post comes not from the figures but with the bald statements about each group", and the proceed through a collection of statements couched in "I suspect", "I think", "I assume", "it would be possible" and "it seems very likely", to support the OP's sentiment and similarly draw conclusions about a group of people, without citing even one basic fact.
    ,
    Drawing conclusions from the HDI without factoring any ecological considerations or history of colonial conquest and subsequent repression of indiginous development, among many other possible influences, is nonsense. You have taken one aspect of a culture (religion) and attempted to posit that that one factor is the primary cause of a nation's level of development. You must know very well that human relations are considerably more complex than that.

    Look at this map of HDI rankings. It appears that Muslim nations are about average. More or less equal to Christian South America. Look at the Hindu and Buddhist nations... below average. Must be because of their religion. Right?

    I think your hypothesis is nonsense, based only assumpution and wonder why you would post it without even one fact to back it up.

    In his book Guns, Germs, and Steel, Jared M. Diamond comments on why Europeans became the most dominate society. He believes that because of the very good temperate climate for growing food in Europe, natives had time to pursue the quest of knowledge. This led them to better agricultural production methods, as well as to war materials and ships. Europeans dominated and defeated any non-Europeans they wanted to and took their land. Makes more sense than which god you happen to believe in.

    Last year on BBC, I heard one expert say that the HDI is a measure of how Scandinavian a country is. :rolleyes:

    edit: btw- You are also wrong about Turkey. 90 years ago it did have "some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide". In fact, off the top of my head, I can't think of another Muslim majority nation that did have those. At least in the past 300 years anyway. Of course ethic cleaning and genocide was more a specialty of more northerly nations or those far to the west than they ever were in Islamic lands.
     
    #13 vince, Jan 31, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2011
  14. Jason

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    I'm too lazy to do the maths. It is however not hard to do, and doing it would remove most of the cautious language. The point I was seeking to make is that just casting an eye over the figures does show a strong (inverse) correlation between these two figures, and if I had the energy to do the maths it could be put forward as an objectively proven correlation, perhaps with a chi-squared test to demonstrate the level of confidence.

    That there are countries in Christian South America that perform badly on the HDI does not invalidate the correlation between %moslem and HDI - the point is that a statistically valid correlation exists. Nor do shortcomings with the HDI invalidate the correlation. Of course the HDI has all sorts of problems. It is however better than the OP's bald statements because it is objective with respect to the %moslem figure. As you point out the issues are complex. I'm well aware of Turkey's genocidal history, but my assumption is that the bald statements only have meaning if they are recent, however any of us might want to define that. But this is a red herring - I want to move away from the OP's caricatures.
     
  15. Drifterwood

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    Horse shit. I have been to a lot of these countries and have white european friends who live in others. Daily intimidation etc - my arse.
     
  16. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Agreed. I vacationed in Jordan a few years ago and as an American I didn't feel the least bit threatened or concerned about a terrorist attack. In fact, it's when I went to Jerusalem in Israel afterwards that we had to deal with any form of violence that could classify.
     
  17. maxcok

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    ..:rolleyes:
     
  18. D_Abraham Slinkin

    D_Abraham Slinkin Account Disabled

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    Whilst I question some of what you have stated - the basic idea here isn't far off. The problem for many Americans is that they can't image it. I live in the first European city where Europeans are in the minority under the age of 18, will be all ages in a few decades.
    Taxi's are banned from advertising Haram 'none Halal' products now after taxi drivers 'mostly muslim' managed to push laws through. The ghetto areas to the East of the City which are almost entirely Muslim inhabited have the highest level of car and fraud crimes in the country, yet the Police are scared to do anything about it - when they did erect CCTV, there was such an out cry from the people in the area that they were being racially targeted the police were forced to remove all the CCTV.
    When our former Home Secretary brought up the issue of Racial Rapes (muslim men raping none muslim girls) as being a serious problem known to the police, he was labelled a racist and the government had to drop any plans to try and combat the problem.

    It's not racist to single out muslims because there is a very unique difference. All other groups integrate. Most muslims have no desire to integrate into society - they want to live seperately along side everyone else, with their own neighbourhoods, own stores, own laws, and many do not ever want to talk to or know none muslims. Of course there are exceptions, I know many muslims who live in my part of the city who are normal people; but even they would agree with me and back me up with the problems I outlined above.
     
  19. lucky8

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    So what's going to happen in 20 years when 1/4 of the world's population is Muslim?
     
  20. B_crackoff

    B_crackoff New Member

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    I'm pretty sure that if you did the same study about Jewish influence, or wealth, you'd have the ADL on your back - whatever the conclusion - so it can't be right to generalize like this about Muslims either.

    In the UK you have places that have served bacon closed because the smell offended Muslims, & bus drivers throwing off BLIND people, because they had guide dogs (& no they didn't lose their jobs).

    The truth is, that they complained - they got. However, all those things could be handled by a leadership with a bit of backbone.

    Half my university course where Muslims - I live among a lot of them - we all get along fine - though they'd never accept me having a relationship with one of them without undergoing conversion!

    Have you thought that part of the problem in the HDI would have been caused by the West screwing over certain Muslim nations, whilst propping up their despots?

    Not much more than them being at about 20% now! More Halal?
     
    #20 B_crackoff, Jan 31, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2011
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