True about Muslim populations?

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Pendlum

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Your post is OT, if you want to start a thread about hate speech then please do so, if not then get back to the point!

Says the guy whose only contribution to this thread so far has been about the nonexistence of hate speech and site rules. :rolleyes:

Assuming the topic is still the OP, then you are right (though you should take your own advice in that regard), and I will try to post something on topic.

As for the OP, I think it's pretty much garbage. As New End put so well, "You think this shit is new?" It isn't. Not to mention nothing has been really backed up, and many events (intimidation etc.) that have been said to happen has had admittedly anecdotal evidence shown against it, but anecdotal is still more evidence than the other side has given.

The worst part of it is though that it implies that it somehow matters that they are Muslim, that the religion is Islam. I'm very anti religion in a sense, and I'm an atheist. Even atheism has been used to stomp on and oppress people (though I believe it is a less effective tool than religion). It doesn't matter what religion it is, all that really matters is that the right people have the right influence for things to go sour.
 

B_nyvin

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You are also wrong about Turkey. 90 years ago it did have "some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide". In fact, off the top of my head, I can't think of another Muslim majority nation that did have those. At least in the past 300 years anyway. Of course ethic cleaning and genocide was more a specialty of more northerly nations or those far to the west than they ever were in Islamic lands.

Sadam Hussein and the Kurds? Zoroastrianism and Iran? I guess you can't call out pakistan threatening to nuke hindus as they havn't offically done it...but it comes close. Let's not even go into the situation in Dafur.

 

Speculator

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Like others I've seen that post before in another forum and found it quite thought provoking; a casual read down the list left me feeling that the stats made a certain amount of sense. The major anomoly is of course Turkey, but as somebody else has already pointed out Turkey have gone to great lengths to ensure that the their state remains secular, backing up the theory that Islam and Western democratic ideals cannot peacefully coexist. You have to pick one or the other.
 
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Pendlum

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I don't agree that you have to pick one or the other. Nowadays many aspects of the bible are taken in a different context. It's about a person willingness to compromise. There is such a thing as a moderate Muslim, they are clearly making a compromise with their religion and the modern world. Again I feel that it's those that have influence that are the problem.
 

B_crackoff

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What is 'religious gallows'? and who said it?

I'll agree that there's a lot of religion-based lunacy in the world lately, but it is promulgated by fundamentalism, whether Christian, Islamic, or Hindu. I as a Druid have received death threats from all three types of fundies. No LOL involved. That's why I try to keep my precise location and legal name secret.

Luckily, I've not heard of any mass killings of people because they're druids since Anglesey 61 AD.

Christianity is numerically probably the most persecuted in the world, with tens of thousands of deaths in Africa, the Middle East & Asia suggested annually.

It doesn't get reported in the West. If you're not white, live in the 3rd world & a Christian - you don't count.



Christianity Arguably the Most Persecuted Religion in the World
Jeffrey Goldberg
James Dobson Speaks Out On Global Christian Persecution
 

vince

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Luckily, I've not heard of any mass killings of people because they're druids since Anglesey 61 AD.

Christianity is numerically probably the most persecuted in the world, with tens of thousands of deaths in Africa, the Middle East & Asia suggested annually.

It doesn't get reported in the West. If you're not white, live in the 3rd world & a Christian - you don't count.
If you are not white, live in Italy, France, the UK or Germany, you don't count either. And it doesn't matter what your religion is.
 

maxcok

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lol...i didn't write it, i just read over it and found it a very...exciting read.

I guess I should post a source...but I honestly don't know, as it's been copied from another forum from a poster that listed no source himself. I thought the questioning title would be enough to tip some people off that it wasn't "my article"

It was fun seeing the harsh reactions though, lol.
This says it all. ^ You created an intentionally inflammatory shit-stirring thread to spark reactions, in short, trolling.

I don't see why it's mandatory to jump aboard the lib wagon with everyone.
I'm really fucking tired of mindless bigots and lockstep right-wingers accusing compassionate, reasonable, independent thinkers of being on a "lib bandwagon". The irony is overwhelming.

Your post is OT, if you want to start a thread about hate speech then please do so, if not then get back to the point!
More irony, from the King of Trolls, 90% of whose posts are combative, deliberately provocative, and/or knee-jerk attacks and insults directed at "stupid libtard socialist idiots" and decidedly off-topic. Again, trolling.
 

D_Harvey Schmeckel

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Maxcok wrote:

You created an intentionally inflammatory shit-stirring thread to spark reactions, in short, trolling.

Undeniably true, yet some here will find a way to refuse to acknowledge the obvious. And refusing to acknowledge obvious trolling is refusing to sanction it-- to the horrendous detriment of the entire site IMO.
 

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I don't agree that you have to pick one or the other. Nowadays many aspects of the bible are taken in a different context. It's about a person willingness to compromise. There is such a thing as a moderate Muslim, they are clearly making a compromise with their religion and the modern world. Again I feel that it's those that have influence that are the problem.



The "moderate Muslims" quite often support the extremists though, even though they wouldn't perform such actions themselves. There was a case recently in Pakistan, (I forget the exact details) but IIRC a woman was sentenced to death for blasphemy and the politician who spoke up for her was then violently murdered, when they asked around plenty of normal Pakistanis were quite willing to go on record to say they supported the murderer. This blasé attitude would be unthinkable in the West; the act would have received universal condemnation.


As this forum aptly demonstrates; those with widely divergent creeds don't live happily side by side, so I see little point in pretending that they do just to appease those of more liberal mindset. The real world's results will trump the theory (however well intentioned) every day of the week. This needs to be taken into consideration when policy making.
 

B_crackoff

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If you are not white, live in Italy, France, the UK or Germany, you don't count either. And it doesn't matter what your religion is.

Got a source for that? What a load of bollocks. I must be out of my mind having a Bangladeshi MP, & all the surrounding ones being Asian or black! I must be missing all these mass killings:biggrin1:

It's not like any European country had non domestic slaves working in the fields - all non-white migration is very recent chummy!

I would remind you, that though an awful lot have arrived in the last decade or so, there's also not a single Polish MP, despite them comprising 1-1.5% of the electorate...hey & guess what & not a single white in any government in the Middle East (east of Turkey) or Asia.

What a lot of specious nonsense.
 

B_crackoff

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The "moderate Muslims" quite often support the extremists though, even though they wouldn't perform such actions themselves. There was a case recently in Pakistan, (I forget the exact details) but IIRC a woman was sentenced to death for blasphemy and the politician who spoke up for her was then violently murdered, when they asked around plenty of normal Pakistanis were quite willing to go on record to say they supported the murderer. This blasé attitude would be unthinkable in the West; the act would have received universal condemnation.

Hush now King of the Trolls!!!! People here have a warped & ignorant view of discrimination - it doesn't happen to whites, Christians, heterosexuals, men or people on the right.

Lucky for her she was a woman, got a couple of column inches. She was a Christian, & by being so & sharing water had insulted Muslims, which led to an arguement, & her death sentence!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law_in_Pakistan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia_Bibi

As this forum aptly demonstrates; those with widely divergent creeds don't live happily side by side, so I see little point in pretending that they do just to appease those of more liberal mindset. The real world's results will trump the theory (however well intentioned) every day of the week. This needs to be taken into consideration when policy making.

Nope, you're just maaaaaaaaaaaaaad!!!

Trolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll!!!!!

Stop it you're making my brain hurrrrt!!!

Does not compute with my rigid idealogy!!!

You're mentally abusing us with your exact logic & clarity of thought.

Where's Billy goat Gruff when you need him!!!!

Burn the witch!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

maxcok

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Maxcok wrote:

You created an intentionally inflammatory shit-stirring thread to spark reactions, in short, trolling.

Undeniably true, yet some here will find a way to refuse to acknowledge the obvious. And refusing to acknowledge obvious trolling is refusing to sanction it-- to the horrendous detriment of the entire site IMO.
I'm not sure I understand your comments. When you say "refusing to acknowledge obvious trolling is refusing to sanction it" do you mean "refusing to acknowledge obvious trolling is the same as sanctioning it" or "refusing to respond to obvious trolling is refusing to sanction it", or something else? Would you mind clarifying your intended message here?
 

D_Harvey Schmeckel

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I'm not sure I understand your comments. When you say "refusing to acknowledge obvious trolling is refusing to sanction it" do you mean "refusing to acknowledge obvious trolling is the same as sanctioning it" or "refusing to respond to obvious trolling is refusing to sanction it", or something else? Would you mind clarifying your intended message here?


Refusing to admit what is occurring is not the same as refusing to deal with it, but a necessary condition for refusing to deal with it.
 
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Kotchanski

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Absolutely. Why was this thread allowed to stay up for more than 15 minutes?

Why is it STILL up, even though multiple mods and even an ADMIN have been in it???

Putting ADMIN in caps isn't going to get procedure followed any quicker than it is already... The fact that I ventured into politics should be evidence enough that the thread is being discussed.
 

Speculator

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Nope, you're just maaaaaaaaaaaaaad!!!

Trolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll!!!!!

Stop it you're making my brain hurrrrt!!!

Does not compute with my rigid idealogy!!!

You're mentally abusing us with your exact logic & clarity of thought.

Where's Billy goat Gruff when you need him!!!!

Burn the witch!!!!!!!!!!!!

lol :biggrin1::biggrin1:, I use this forum as a type of mental S&M, I've become accustomed to the abuse.
 

helgaleena

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I think the tolerance for trollish debate is higher in the Politics forum than it is elsewhere on the site.

And crackoff, I know there won't be any mass killings of druids for the simple reason that there are not very many. I do have to take death threats a bit personally however. As anyone would be entitled to.
 

Pendlum

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The "moderate Muslims" quite often support the extremists though, even though they wouldn't perform such actions themselves. There was a case recently in Pakistan, (I forget the exact details) but IIRC a woman was sentenced to death for blasphemy and the politician who spoke up for her was then violently murdered, when they asked around plenty of normal Pakistanis were quite willing to go on record to say they supported the murderer. This blasé attitude would be unthinkable in the West; the act would have received universal condemnation.


As this forum aptly demonstrates; those with widely divergent creeds don't live happily side by side, so I see little point in pretending that they do just to appease those of more liberal mindset. The real world's results will trump the theory (however well intentioned) every day of the week. This needs to be taken into consideration when policy making.

I like how you put moderate Muslims in quotes, because in a way, I agree with you. I wouldn't call someone who would support this murder or the sentence of Asia Bibi a moderate, even if they aren't will to jump in a lynch mob. They are just a different kind of extremist, less gutsy. I would not call Pakistan a moderate Muslim country either. I'd be hard pressed to tell you of a moderate Muslim country as I'm not aware of all the countries that would qualify as a Muslim country. Again I'm not a supporter of Islam, but I feel that the countries that do qualify had have this reputation are like this because the extremists took power a long time ago and have done a thorough job of stamping out moderate beliefs.

Again I agree with you that those with widely divergent creeds don't get along. But that's where compromise comes in, even though it may be difficult. I never said it was easy, compromise often isn't. I just think it is possible.
 

maxcok

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Refusing to admit what is occurring is not the same as refusing to deal with it, but a necessary condition for refusing to deal with it.
Do you mind clarifying who you think is refusing to acknowledge or deal with the problem?
Maybe I'm just being dense today, but I'm still not clear on your message.


Separate but related observation: Not surprisingly there are individuals who continue to deflectively and disingenuously protest that they are being labeled trolls because of their "ideology", rather than for their persistent pattern of trollish behavior.
 

B_crackoff

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I think the tolerance for trollish debate is higher in the Politics forum than it is elsewhere on the site.

And crackoff, I know there won't be any mass killings of druids for the simple reason that there are not very many. I do have to take death threats a bit personally however. As anyone would be entitled to.

I wasn't devaluing your experience - it's just that there are a load of cranks out there - my brother played me several death threats in a row from his answering machine once, & I've not only been threatened, but gang attacked through association.

Apparently there's no law against making death threats, so the police can do nothing, other than restraining orders.

I feel for you, if you feel afraid - or more likely angry & annoyed, but that's always the price for being a bit different & standing out from the crowd, or even thinking differently. If you put your head above the parapets of accepted norms, whatever society you're in, people will take verbal potshots at you - & it's highly improbable to go further than that - just an attempt to run you out of town. Eventually some new group or type takes over as the object of hate.

Everyone loathes something or an ideology - but it shouldn't extend to the person associated with it, because there are qualities to respect & admire in everyone.

Edit - Oh shit - sorry about the burn the witch Pythonesque stuff! It wasn't aimed at you!:redface:
 
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