True Dating Market Value

[killerb]

Your avatar always makes me smile...

glad to put a smile on your face...
he exhibits how I feel a lot of the time...

 

[B_New End]

absolutely. I've met some rejection, and just been like "wha?", sorry, I was the catch, and you gonna reject me?

hmmm.....

 

[naughty]

New End,

Babe you might very well be all that and a bag of chips as is the case with many people. The trick is that if the object of your desire has a different set of things that he or she admires it seems to be all for nought.

 

[B_New End]

New End,

Babe you might very well be all that and a bag of chips as is the case with many people. The trick is that if the object of your desire has a different set of things that he or she admires it seems to be all for nought.

well, its no biggie. On to the next one.

 

[SpeedoGuy]

I find it difficult to objectively estimate the effect of my personality traits and other strengths/weaknesses I possess. I know they exist but to what degree they influence my view of myself and the view others have of me is what I find perplexing. I just don't know. With that limitation in mind, its even more difficult to develop strategies to account for them: emphasizing strengths and minimizing liabilities.

 

[BigDallasDick8x6]

Interesing question: what I have seen is that some people place such a high value on looks that they blind themselves to other things that they wouldn't accept in less attractive people. For example, I know a woman who accepts verbal abuse & disrespectful behavior from her BF because he's very good looking and a lot of other women want him. I've also seen people go after others for certain qualities like complexion, hair texture & other silly things in the hopes that their children will have those same traits...and yes, I've also seen the disappointment when things didn't turn out as planned...

Exactly. The one that gets me in the personals ads is eye color. EYE COLOR?? Whether you want a quality relationship or just want to fuck them, what the hell does eye color have to do with anything?

Having said that, I'll fess up that I'm a pushover for guys with blue eyes and dark hair -- such an unusual combination. But I don't go out looking for that, taking out ads for it, putting my eye color in ads, etc.

In other words, I think you're exactly right that we get fixated on a single characteristic and a very narrow range of values for that characteristic.

 

[BigDallasDick8x6]

I got angry because of a number of assumptions the author made. In the black community the demographics are that 30% of black women would ever marry. Starting with this daunting information, I felt as if he was pouring salt in the wound by blaming black women for a number of things that I really didnt think were their faults in why they did not find mates. Starting with the sheer numbers disparity, even if a person was damn near perfect in this dating game of musical chairs, someone was still going to do without unless they found some alternative. It was to say the least depressing.

I'm really fascinated by this, so I hope you don't mind a hundred nosey questions. LOL

Who were you angry at -- the author? Sounds like you do agree with him in the end. So if he told the truth, can you hold that against him? Or was it just the general circumstances you were angry about?

Did you finish the book? How for into it did you get "hopping mad"?

You also said it made you think. If you were angry with the author, are you still? If you're angry about the general situation, I think that's pretty reasonable.

Most importantly, are you glad you read the book?

Isn't it amazing how powerful books are. One book can change your life (although I don't think this book went that far in this case). Some books are so threatening that people try to get them banned from libraries or they burn them.

The marketplace of ideas.

 

[Jovial]

I do have a question to ask ... Do you all think that one of the issues is that some people use their dating partner or ability to pull from A list person as a measurement of their own desirability, etc?

But how else can you judge your worth? Believe me, I try to base my worth on myself and not what others think of me, but I don't think this is the way the real world works. They say, no man is an island. If no one seems to like you, then you can't help but start to doubt yourself. And this is all related to confidence. If people like you, then you become more confident, and more people like you because everyone else likes you. It's like a stock on the stock market.

I have seen over and over again couples where one partner is decidedly more physically attractive than the other and the less attractive partner eventually grows tired of the fact they they have to contribute more in the way of monetary goods or job, etc.

I have seen stuff like this before also, and it usually gets worse over time and one partner become more and more insecure. And it can work the other way too. The more attractive person can start to feel awkward when their partner is always so insecure or lacking confidence.

In women I have seen them belittle a physically handsome but socially, educationally, or monetarily less successful partner in attempts to mold him into what they really want. They were blinded by the looks and later came to realize that it was not all they wanted or needed.

That could just be lack of experience and thinking they can change people. That's why they say it's bad to get married before age 25.

Or even sicker I have found people that chased after a physically attractive person in the hopes that their children would be attractive and when the child came out looking like them then got angry with both the child and the partner and took out their disappointment on them.

Wow. I've never seen that. Maybe the ugly people should only breed with other ugly people.

Exactly. The one that gets me in the personals ads is eye color. EYE COLOR?? Whether you want a quality relationship or just want to fuck them, what the hell does eye color have to do with anything?

Having said that, I'll fess up that I'm a pushover for guys with blue eyes and dark hair -- such an unusual combination. But I don't go out looking for that, taking out ads for it, putting my eye color in ads, etc.

That may be silly, but the reality is dating is a marketplace.

My whole life I've worried about what are acceptable reasons to like someone or for them to like me, and I don't think it's healthy. A better way is to just accept the reality that people like other people for sometimes arbitrary physical attributes. If I'm physically attracted to a women, I don't feel that is enough to pursue her. I think that's shallow or something.

 

[Principessa]

I can see that. Dating does seem like a game of musical chairs to me and I'm not quick enough to ever get a chair. :frown1:

Well there's half your problem right there. :biggrin1: I haven't played musical chairs since I was 7. I'm pretty sure everyone else has moved onto Halo 3, World of Warcraft, or Final Fantasy X. I kid, but I do understand as I'm a Parcheesi and Scattergories kind of girl living in an X-Box world. :redface:

It does seem odd that so many people, both men and women, say they can't find the right person.

That's because many people overestimate or underestimate their own worth. Others look great on paper but in reality are undateble.

 

[sam_solo26]

[...] or Final Fantasy X.

This right here makes me want to date you :biggrin1:

 

[naughty]

I find it difficult to objectively estimate the effect of my personality traits and other strengths/weaknesses I possess. I know they exist but to what degree they influence my view of myself and the view others have of me is what I find perplexing. I just don't know. With that limitation in mind, its even more difficult to develop strategies to account for them: emphasizing strengths and minimizing liabilities.

Speedo,

We have not yet discussed the part that ego has to play in this equation. Even when someone suffers from poor self esteem it all relates to the mirror of others reactions to us. Much of it can be totally subjective and manipulative but it is hard to see through others assessments as biased when we want to have a positive experience. I think one should basically be the best person he or she can be period and to hell with other people's assessments. I have seen time and again others assessments tainted by their own insecurities or jealousies. So you may not get a true assessment. Not everyone is going to like us. Our personal set of beliefs may stop many at the door but may draw others to us. Our physical attributes may contribute other factors. It is all very complex and daunting at times.

 

[Hotrocker]

Hi,

years ago I read a book that made me hopping mad, but it also made me think. In it the psychologist was saying that each of us has a market value on the dating scene. It is based on a number of things that we bring to the table. Some of them were: Status, Age, Physical attractiveness, intelligence, Social clout, education, Gender, Race, etc. He felt that problems arose in dating when there was a disparity between what we thought our market value was and our true market value. He said quite often people over estimated their own market value while underestimating that of others.
I am sure most people do not want to hear that. I know I didnt. But it made me realize that we can bring many good things to the table , but if the person or persons we are wishing to attract do not value these qualities we are not going to have the desired outcome. Our market value is only as good as what the market will bear.

What do you all think about this?

This seems very accurate on and reveals quite a bit about what factors people judge potential mates on.

But, what about Charles Horton Cooley's "Looking Glass Self" concept? For those unfamiliar, the looking glass self is a fundamental, "sociological concept that has three major components and is unique to humans (Shaffer 2005). According to Lisa McIntyre’s The Practical Skeptic: Core Concepts in Sociology, in the looking-glass self a person views himself or herself through others' perceptions in society and in turn gains identity."

1. We imagine how we must appear to others.
2. We imagine the judgment of that appearance.
3. We develop our self through the judgments of others.

If Cooley's data is correct, wouldn't humans be more keen on what they "have to bring to the table," thus avoiding a situation where they "over estimate their own market value?"

I believe that the psychologist you cited was correct that people judge other's on their "market value," but I'm skeptical regarding what that psychologist said about people "over estimat[ing] their own market value." We are what we make ourselves, but, we perceive ourselves according to other people's view. We are but products of our environments.

 

[sxy_vince]

I tend to underestimate my own value. I think that is because of my background and having not fit in where I grew up. It's sometimes hard to get out of that.

Right now there are two things really holding me back: my shyness and the fact that I'm unemployed/underemployed. I'm working on both but it's a long process especially for the shyness. And the job situation is partly just what is out there - the jobs have to BE there before that can really improve. One of my friends (SensualGoth, in fact...) recommended that I join Toastmasters. I've thought of that before and may just do that. I'm pretty busy in my life as it is, but that should help me both in my personal life and in my career, so it's good all around.

I tend to get down on my appearance a lot - I think probably I just have body image/insecurity issues that a lot (most?) women have.

I've seen your gallery and you look like an attractive person, so I wouldn't worry about that. I think the Toastmasters would help. I have tried that and found it useful. I've never been really shy but I found that the people at Toastmasters were really good at encouraging shy people and building up their confidence, so I think you would find it to be an encouraging experience. (It is also a good way to meet people, including potential dates... because other people attend Toastmasters and many of them are shy like yourself).

 

[naughty]

Hotrocker,

That is very true. One of the problems is that at the end of the day there is only so much one can change and if you are not what society values and beautiful, or desirable what can be done. This is why we see people almost mutilating themselves , bleaching their hair, fixing their noses, bleaching their skin, using PE in attempts to change physical characteristics that society does not value in an attempt to manipulate their market value. Being a good person seems well and good in principle but it can be daunting when after all is said and done one is passed over for what are said to be merely superficial characteristics for which one has no control.

 

[whatireallywant]

Exactly. The one that gets me in the personals ads is eye color. EYE COLOR?? Whether you want a quality relationship or just want to fuck them, what the hell does eye color have to do with anything?

Having said that, I'll fess up that I'm a pushover for guys with blue eyes and dark hair -- such an unusual combination. But I don't go out looking for that, taking out ads for it, putting my eye color in ads, etc.

In other words, I think you're exactly right that we get fixated on a single characteristic and a very narrow range of values for that characteristic.

I wonder about that too! I'm not especially concerned with hair color or eye color since I'm attracted to guys with variations of those. Yes, I do like those guys with dark hair and blue eyes though! But I've also been attracted to guys with dark hair and brown eyes, and light hair and blue eyes... so it's not that big a deal. (I'm a woman with dark hair and light eyes myself... so maybe a lot of people like that?)

But how else can you judge your worth? Believe me, I try to base my worth on myself and not what others think of me, but I don't think this is the way the real world works. They say, no man is an island. If no one seems to like you, then you can't help but start to doubt yourself. And this is all related to confidence. If people like you, then you become more confident, and more people like you because everyone else likes you. It's like a stock on the stock market.

This is what I struggle with. People like me now, but I still have some hangups from the past, growing up in a community where nobody liked me. I seem to do better in cities (both here and the city I used to live) than I did in rural/small town areas like where I grew up.

I've seen your gallery and you look like an attractive person, so I wouldn't worry about that. I think the Toastmasters would help. I have tried that and found it useful. I've never been really shy but I found that the people at Toastmasters were really good at encouraging shy people and building up their confidence, so I think you would find it to be an encouraging experience. (It is also a good way to meet people, including potential dates... because other people attend Toastmasters and many of them are shy like yourself).

Thanks! :wink:

I really should join Toastmasters what with my shyness not only affecting my personal life (I rarely date), but also my career - would help me in interviews as well as on the job. I'm really busy what with job hunting and working temp jobs when I can find them, as well as one social organization where I actually have gotten to know some people, at least on a superficial level. I go on LPSG to unwind, that and watching what I even refer to as trashy TV shows. :biggrin1: (And no, I don't mean stuff like Jerry Springer! That would make me more irritated with people yelling and screaming at each other all the time. I mean more like Project Runway and What Not to Wear...)

 

[B_Hung Jon]

Maybe this is naive on my part but the whole idea of being worth something on the dating market or meat rack seems superficial. It seems to me that if you want to find someone who's compatible as a partner or lover then you need to find someone who you have a lot in common with, who enjoys life the way you do, and has similar values.

But I also think there's a second aspect to all this. You can't do this by changing yourself into some perfect or structured personality, like someone who you've put together out of your own ideals and /or project that on other peeps. Until I find out who I am, what my negative and positive traits are, and how well I appreciate myself, it's all just going to be a game of phony projection of my alter ego in the world. To me the best thing any person can do to be attractive to others is to know her/himself, and be completely comfortable with that. I've noticed that when that happens, peeps just naturally are attracted and want to be close to you. Just my experience so far, although I'm just 23.:smile:

 

[SpeedoGuy]

Much of it can be totally subjective and manipulative but it is hard to see through others assessments as biased when we want to have a positive experience.

I have seen time and again others assessments tainted by their own insecurities or jealousies. So you may not get a true assessment.

My sister told me exactly the same thing. And, of course, I was bummed out on myself in the aftermath.

It is all very complex and daunting at times.

I've skied off the top of 10,000+ foot peaks, flown myself across the Rocky Mountains, run marathons, kayaked rivers, ridden bicycles downhill at 60+ mph, etc.

None of that daunts me as much as confronting my own perceived inadequacies.

 

[whatireallywant]

Maybe this is naive on my part but the whole idea of being worth something on the dating market or meat rack seems superficial. It seems to me that if you want to find someone who's compatible as a partner or lover then you need to find someone who you have a lot in common with, who enjoys life the way you do, and has similar values.

But I also think there's a second aspect to all this. You can't do this by changing yourself into some perfect or structured personality, like someone who you've put together out of your own ideals and /or project that on other peeps. Until I find out who I am, what my negative and positive traits are, and how well I appreciate myself, it's all just going to be a game of phony projection of my alter ego in the world. To me the best thing any person can do to be attractive to others is to know her/himself, and be completely comfortable with that. I've noticed that when that happens, peeps just naturally are attracted and want to be close to you. Just my experience so far, although I'm just 23.:smile:

Wise words there.

I do think there are some things I need to work on. Mainly the shyness and the job situation (and well, I need to work on the job situation because I need to pay the bills!). Yes, I'd like to work on my physical appearance too... but probably the shyness is holding me back more than anything.

What I look for for a long term relationship is someone I have a lot in common with, as well. Unfortunately I have some quirks that not a lot of people share. Such as: Most people want children. I don't. I have to take things like that into consideration for anything long-term, although if it's just a short term fling, I don't have to take that into consideration as much. And I have to admit that I really do need to be physically attracted to the guy. I know this from some experience as well.

 

[Principessa]

[...] or Final Fantasy X.
This right here makes me want to date you :biggrin1:

hahaha don't get too excited, I don't play. I did promise my beau that if he got me a Paine costume I would wear it for him though. :wink:

 

[cocktoberfest]

What do you all think about this?

my roomate says I sell myself short when he sees who I go out with. oh well. perfect 10s (or 8s, or 9s) make me nervous!