Trump not as stupid as hitler?

[TexanStar]

Manufacturing jobs are never coming back to the United States. We need leaders in government who understand that fact.

This is a simple statement made about a complicated industry.

US manufacturing jobs have been increasing lately, not decreasing. Some of this is driven by changes in the countries we offshore to (offshoring becomes a less competetive option when those countries start forcing better wages or working conditions than their recent setting of "complete shithole").

It's only "never coming back" if it is taken for granted that there will be huge populations in the world that will maintain the type of educational prospects necessary to support manufacturing for the tech industry while at the same time also supporting a repressive wage and work benefits structure. I don't know that this will be a persistent state of affairs (signs point to that not being the case).

We do need leaders in government that aren't imbeciles about it though.

 

[Max_Polo]

Manufacturing jobs are never coming back to the United States. We need leaders in government who understand that fact.

http://www.shopfloor.org/2018/02/am...biologics-manufacturing-plant-due-tax-reform/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2017/01/03/ford-motor-co-donald-trump-mexico-us/96106334/

http://fortune.com/2018/01/11/toyota-mazda-alabama-car-plant/

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2...start-engine-production-u-s-three-new-plants/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/04/09/boeing-expansion-south-carolina/2066469/

https://www.bmwusfactory.com/manufacturing/factory-products/plant-spartanburg-vehicle-models/

https://www.autocarindia.com/car-news/mahindra-inaugurates-new-manufacturing-plant-in-the-usa-406630

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...anufacturing-plant-in-wisconsin-idUSKBN1AB258

 

[Silbot.]

@Max_Polo @TexanStar

If nothing else, I think we can agree 1) econ is more complicated than CNN/Fox/MSNBC would have everyone believe, 2) even though we are a post-industrial society this doesn't mean we've stopped manufacturing anything, and 3) we don't know exactly what the overall content of the manufacturing sector will be going forward, but there will be one. No?

 

[TexanStar]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...anufacturing-plant-in-wisconsin-idUSKBN1AB258

That Foxconn plant is a result of a legislative abortion Wisconsin is subsidizing so much of that plant there's a real risk that they come out losers in the long run.

I'm not arguing against positive movements for manufacturing as a whole (I chimed in on that point already), just noting that Paul Ryan is one of those dummies I was referring to when saying we need people in leadership who aren't imbeciles (it's not his legislation, but he was out front singing praise about it).

 

[TexanStar]

@Max_Polo @TexanStar

If nothing else, I think we can agree 1) econ is more complicated than CNN/Fox/MSNBC would have everyone believe, 2) even though we are a post-industrial society this doesn't mean we've stopped manufacturing anything, and 3) we don't know exactly what the overall content of the manufacturing sector will be going forward, but there will be one. No?

Certainly.

 

[Max_Polo]

That Foxconn plant is a result of a legislative abortion Wisconsin is subsidizing so much of that plant there's a real risk that they come out losers in the long run.

I'm not arguing against positive movements for manufacturing as a whole (I chimed in on that point already), just noting that Paul Ryan is one of those dummies I was referring to when saying we need people in leadership who aren't imbeciles (it's not his legislation, but he was out front singing praise about it).

"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government."
-- Thomas Jefferson

 

[Klingsor]

"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government."
-- Thomas Jefferson

Perhaps because too little government isn't "bad government"--just chaos.

 

[TexanStar]

Perhaps because too little government isn't "bad government"--just chaos.

It doesn't have to be either...

 

[Max_Polo]

Perhaps because too little government isn't "bad government"--just chaos.

The answer of course is the "just right" amount of government. See Exhibit A.

 

[TexanStar]

The answer of course is the "just right" amount of government. See Exhibit A.


View attachment 1079498

lol

According to this list we're #8, which isn't bad, but could be better: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/economy

Looks like we need to legalize pot to get to the top of this thing. You in?

 

[Klingsor]

It doesn't have to be either...

Maybe not. But "too little" certainly isn't optimal.

(In any of these forums.)

 

[TexanStar]

Maybe not. But "too little" certainly isn't optimal.

It's not. That's why hardly anyone identifies as Libertarian Some of the conceptual principles behind it are sensible, but the practical implementations are moronic.

 

[Max_Polo]

It's not. That's why hardly anyone identifies as Libertarian Some of the conceptual principles behind it are sensible, but the practical implementations are moronic.

Amen to that brother! It's a workable start, but needs lots of work.

 

[Klingsor]

It's not. That's why hardly anyone identifies as Libertarian Some of the conceptual principles behind it are sensible, but the practical implementations are moronic.

"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they're not."
--Albert Einstein. Or Yogi Berra.

 

[tripod]

Manufacturing jobs are never coming back to the United States. We need leaders in government who understand that fact.

The logic in this statement would depend upon a system where people would vote for leaders: hell bent on making sure that as much manufacturing gets outsourced, dedicated to a system of free trade where countries could "dump" as many exports as they possibly could into our economy, who position themselves as the idealogical & symbolic polar-opposite of the quintessential symbol of American manufacturing - "The Working Man" simply because the other political party/ideology has already made great strides towards capturing most of that base.

The above accurately describes the modern Democratic party's playbook... one which people like you work 24/7 365 days a year to cement into a concrete reality. Yeah, this is YOUR reality... the problem is...

... a lot of people don't want to fucking work as baristas or nurses and actually enjoy working with their hands, enjoy working with machinery, actually don't have a problem with the sort of grand social experiment of a factory atmosphere and like the satisfaction of MAKING THINGS that aren't food. They desperately WANT to work in manufacturing.

It's not politically smart to alienate working class America with elitist propaganda like "Those jobs are never coming back".

Why? Because it's only true if people like YOU get their way poltically. It's YOUR self fulfilling prophecy where you stake your claim to diminishing and dystopic statements about labor and then turn around and work hard to elect individuals that will make that a reality.

Can the liberals force their science fiction soylent-green style dystopic economic collapse on the future of this country where there are simply no more jobs and not enough people working to drive our economy?

or will enough people push back and destroy systems of free trade, while boldly forging ahead with a renewed energy to "make things again"?

 

[TexanStar]

The logic in this statement would depend upon a system where people would vote for leaders: hell bent on making sure that as much manufacturing gets outsourced, dedicated to a system of free trade where countries could "dump" as many exports as they possibly could into our economy, who position themselves as the idealogical & symbolic polar-opposite of the quintessential symbol of American manufacturing - "The Working Man" simply because the other political party/ideology has already made great strides towards capturing most of that base.

The above accurately describes the modern Democratic party's playbook... one which people like you work 24/7 365 days a year to cement into a concrete reality. Yeah, this is YOUR reality... the problem is...

... a lot of people don't want to fucking work as baristas or nurses and actually enjoy working with their hands, enjoy working with machinery, actually don't have a problem with the sort of grand social experiment of a factory atmosphere and like the satisfaction of MAKING THINGS that aren't food. They desperately WANT to work in manufacturing.

It's not politically smart to alienate working class America with elitist propaganda like "Those jobs are never coming back".

Why? Because it's only true if people like YOU get their way poltically. It's YOUR self fulfilling prophecy where you stake your claim to diminishing and dystopic statements about labor and then turn around and work hard to elect individuals that will make that a reality.

Can the liberals force their science fiction soylent-green style dystopic economic collapse on the future of this country where there are simply no more jobs and not enough people working to drive our economy?

or will enough people push back and destroy systems of free trade, while boldly forging ahead with a renewed energy to "make things again"?

Welcome back

 

[Industrialsize]

The logic in this statement would depend upon a system where people would vote for leaders: hell bent on making sure that as much manufacturing gets outsourced, dedicated to a system of free trade where countries could "dump" as many exports as they possibly could into our economy, who position themselves as the idealogical & symbolic polar-opposite of the quintessential symbol of American manufacturing - "The Working Man" simply because the other political party/ideology has already made great strides towards capturing most of that base.

I'm afraid you are mired in the 1950's? 47% of the Unites State's workforce is female.

 

[TexanStar]

I'm afraid you are mired in the 1950's? 47% of the Unites State's workforce is female.

29% of the manufacturing workforce, but we digress (as I assume was your intent since your original argument is pretty indefensible).

 

[Industrialsize]

29% of the manufacturing workforce, but we digress (as I assume was your intent since your original argument is pretty indefensible).

If you believe there will be a great renaissance of thriving factory towns in the Nation, you are also mired in the 1950's.

 

[tripod]

I'm afraid you are mired in the 1950's? 47% of the Unites State's workforce is female.

I've always associated the phrase "working woman" as being close to "working girl" which is sang for a prostitute. I'll have to submit that the reason I suspect that the phrase "working woman" never really caught on is because of it's close proximity to working girl.

I know "working man" is antiquated and lacks accuracy of gender but it's just a "colloquial phrase".

Plus, I'm a huge RUSH fan and "Working Man" is one of my favorites, the phrase is ingrained into my mind.

Welcome back

I was banned for a year (a year ago last Saturday). I lurked this forum, kept informed of the action and thought that it could use some more color. lolz

Became a fan of yours while I lurked though. You have brought forth PRINCIPLED arguments backed by a good solid logic... very impressive even if I didn't always agree with your assessments... but it doesn't matter if I agree or not as long as I agree with your logic and your logic is sound. I see your posts as the standout politics forum member fighting the good fight of logic vs emotion. I mean it's not like we don't have emotions or that emotions don't drive our hypotheses or inform our narratives... we are fully human beings.

Hopefully I can learn from your points of view without stepping on your toes while you get a kick out of my antagonizing/advocacy/pleas for sensibility.