Two-state Solution Hypothetical

BillDodson

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Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Qatar, UAE welcome Trump peace plan

The arab countries with the money (SA, Qatar, and the UAE) and the country with the muscle (Egypt) have come out in support of the plan.

If Palestine somehow approved of this plan and Trump brought peace to the Middle East, at least geopolitically..

Would you be proud of him? Would that be the defining moment of his presidency?
 

keenobserver

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Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Qatar, UAE welcome Trump peace plan

The arab countries with the money (SA, Qatar, and the UAE) and the country with the muscle (Egypt) have come out in support of the plan.

If Palestine somehow approved of this plan and Trump brought peace to the Middle East, at least geopolitically..

Would you be proud of him? Would that be the defining moment of his presidency?

Moot question since it won't. Thread should be called Hypocritical, not Hypothetical.
 

dreamer20

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What Trump has done is no two state solution or peace plan:

Mehdi Hasan: Trump’s Middle East Plan Is a Policy of Apartheid & Settler Colonialism | Democracy Now!

The above link discusses "President Trump’s long-awaited Middle East plan to end the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, which he has described as the “deal of the century.” The plan was drafted by Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner without any input from Palestinians and would give Israel sovereignty over large areas of the occupied West Bank, control over all of Jerusalem, and keep all illegal settlements built in the occupied West Bank. "

In response to Trump's so- called Middle East peace plan:
Bernie Sanders issued a statement saying, quote, “Any acceptable peace deal must be consistent with international law and multiple UN Security Council resolutions. It must end the Israeli occupation that began in 1967 and enable Palestinian self-determination in an independent, democratic, economically viable state of their own alongside a secure and democratic state of Israel. Trump’s so-called 'peace deal' doesn’t come close, and will only perpetuate the conflict, and undermine the security interests of Americans, Israelis, and Palestinians. It is unacceptable,” Sanders tweeted.
 

gr8gatsby

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Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Qatar, UAE welcome Trump peace plan

The arab countries with the money (SA, Qatar, and the UAE) and the country with the muscle (Egypt) have come out in support of the plan.

If Palestine somehow approved of this plan and Trump brought peace to the Middle East, at least geopolitically..

Would you be proud of him? Would that be the defining moment of his presidency?
If accomplished and if the plan is meaningful, yes. It would be a defining moment in this presidency.

Question: are you proud of President Jimmy Carter for his peace accord?
 

Industrialsize

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Backing Abbas, Arab League unanimously rejects Trump’s Middle East peace plan
Pan-Arab bloc says American offer ‘does not meet the minimum rights and aspirations of Palestinian people,’ vows not to cooperate with administration on proposal

The Arab League on Saturday unanimously rejected US President Donald Trump’s controversial Middle East plan, calling it “unfair” to Palestinians.

The pan-Arab bloc said in a statement that it “rejects the US-Israeli ‘deal of the century’ considering that it does not meet the minimum rights and aspirations of Palestinian people.”



Arab leaders also vowed “not to… cooperate with the US administration to implement this plan.”
Backing Abbas, Arab League unanimously rejects Trump’s Middle East peace plan
 

Jason

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Any peace plan in any conflict situation has to start with the world as it is, not with a wish that things had happened differently. There are parts of the Trump plan which need serious consideration.

1) It cannot make sense to partition Jerusalem. This would be to create another Berlin. There has to be a unified Jerusalem, and an Israeli Jerusalem is the only option.

2) The West Bank Settlements have happened. These are in many cases big towns with big populations. There is no way the people are simply going to move out.

3) Israel is a tiny nation. It is a military achievement that it has been able to defend itself. Either Israel is given the West Bank of the Jordan or Israel will take it.

4) Gaza needs to operate as a city state. Ideas in the Trump plan still seem relatively thin. However Gaza has an airport (not in use), plans to construct a major port, land borders with two nations (Israel and Egypt). It has the potential to work. The Trump plan adds more land to Gaza.

5) West Bank Palestine needs a clever solution. The world probably needs to look at the complex governmental systems that have been used for example in Bosnia.

Trump is moving the debate forward. His plan at least gives something to talk about. It would be better for Palestinians than the present limbo. In rejecting it Palestinians are assuming thee will be something better tomorrow. Somehow I doubt it.
 

Industrialsize

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mideast-plan-map-6001.png

Trump Releases Mideast Peace Plan That Strongly Favors Israel
The plan would discard the longtime goal of granting the Palestinians a full-fledged state. President Trump called it “a win-win” for both sides; Palestinian leaders immediately rejected it.

WASHINGTON — President Trump on Tuesday unveiled his long-awaited Middle East peace plan with a flourish, releasing a proposal that would give Israel most of what it has sought over decades of conflict while offering the Palestinians the possibility of a state with limited sovereignty.

Mr. Trump’s plan would guarantee that Israel would control a unified Jerusalem as its capital and not require it to uproot any of the settlements in the West Bank that have provoked Palestinian outrage and alienated much of the world.
Trump Releases Mideast Peace Plan That Strongly Favors Israel
 

phonehome

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Any peace plan in any conflict situation has to start with the world as it is, not with a wish that things had happened differently. There are parts of the Trump plan which need serious consideration.

1) It cannot make sense to partition Jerusalem. This would be to create another Berlin. There has to be a unified Jerusalem, and an Israeli Jerusalem is the only option.

2) The West Bank Settlements have happened. These are in many cases big towns with big populations. There is no way the people are simply going to move out.

3) Israel is a tiny nation. It is a military achievement that it has been able to defend itself. Either Israel is given the West Bank of the Jordan or Israel will take it.

4) Gaza needs to operate as a city state. Ideas in the Trump plan still seem relatively thin. However Gaza has an airport (not in use), plans to construct a major port, land borders with two nations (Israel and Egypt). It has the potential to work. The Trump plan adds more land to Gaza.

5) West Bank Palestine needs a clever solution. The world probably needs to look at the complex governmental systems that have been used for example in Bosnia.

Trump is moving the debate forward. His plan at least gives something to talk about. It would be better for Palestinians than the present limbo. In rejecting it Palestinians are assuming thee will be something better tomorrow. Somehow I doubt it.


Yes the West Bank settlements have happened

No one is saying or has ever said that those people have to move out

Those people all KNEW that they were moving to and deciding to live IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY and I really do not want to hear this crap about how now years in some cases decades after the fact they all get to be part of Israel

It is as if a bunch of US citizen expats decided with the "wink wink nod nod" tacit approval of the US government a bunch of gated communities in Toronto and/or Vancouver, where no Canadian could live and the Canadian government had no really authority and then decades later the US government decided to annex it all and told the Canadian government they had no real choice in the matter
 

Jason

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Yes the West Bank settlements have happened

No one is saying or has ever said that those people have to move out

Those people all KNEW that they were moving to and deciding to live IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY and I really do not want to hear this crap about how now years in some cases decades after the fact they all get to be part of Israel

It is as if a bunch of US citizen expats decided with the "wink wink nod nod" tacit approval of the US government a bunch of gated communities in Toronto and/or Vancouver, where no Canadian could live and the Canadian government had no really authority and then decades later the US government decided to annex it all and told the Canadian government they had no real choice in the matter

The Israeli world picture does not see the West Bank as a foreign country. Settlers have never felt in their hearts that they are moving to a foreign country.

The idea of populations settling a land and in doing so claiming it is a familiar one. USA settled the Wild West and claimed it. Russia settled Siberia. Right now China is settling Tibet, Inner Mongolia and the Uighur region. After 1WW Greeks settled parts of Turkey and Turks areas that were ethnically Greek. After 2WW Poland settled to the west of their nation.

I'm not arguing that the Israeli settlement of the West Bank is right. I'm arguing that it has happened and is continuing to happen, that frontiers being redrawn through settlement is commonplace, and we all have to accept reality. No peace plan that doesn't accept reality can work.
 

Industrialsize

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The Israeli world picture does not see the West Bank as a foreign country. Settlers have never felt in their hearts that they are moving to a foreign country.

.
Putin did not feel in his heart he was attacking a foreign country when he annexed Crimea. Good.Grief.
 

TexanStar

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If Palestine somehow approved of this plan and Trump brought peace to the Middle East, at least geopolitically..

Would you be proud of him? Would that be the defining moment of his presidency?

Q1: Sure
Q2: I dunno. Child separation policy ranks high up there. I can't say for certain that bringing peace to the middle east would erase that stain.
 

TexanStar

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Industrialsize

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