UK Employment/P45 Question(s)

[B_ScaredLittleBoy]

Hi.

I just have two questions:

1. Is the employer legally obliged to request his employee's P45 at the start of employment? Or is it okay for him to request it three days before the end of a month's work?

2. Is it the employee's duty to go to the employer's accountant and hand in his P45 to be sent to the Tax Office?

Pretty sure about the answer to number 2. I would however like an applicable (legal) reference for number 1, if possible.

This, is of course a hypothetical situation.

 

[SpoiledPrincess]

1 - I don't think so because employees have often lost their P45 and are on emergency tax code for a couple of months.

2 - As the first answer they're often lost or misplaced so I don't think there's any legal obligation, just normal practice which is to give in your P45 as soon as you start work so you're not on emergency tax code.

But it's been a long time since I've done wages, for all I know new laws have come in about them.

I've just had a quick look and it seems that if you don't supply a P45 the employer is legally obliged to send off a P46 - but there doesn't seem to be any requirement to give a P45 to your employer immediately.

 

[dong20]

You cannot obtain a replacement P45 but you can obtain a replacement P60. If you lose your P45 you need to fill in a P46. This can be obtained from your employer. This will enable HMRC to supply your code.

It is a legal requirement for an employer to issue you a P45 when you leave. It's not a legal requirement to supply one when starting employment for several (some obvious - it's your first job for example) reasons.

Your employer also needs to use a P11D to account for any taxable benefits in kind (company car, medical insurance, beneficial loans etc). You are entitled to a copy of this information.

Other than that it's as SP says ^^^^^.

 

[B_ScaredLittleBoy]

Yes but I thought the employer was supposed to give the P45 to his accountant and arrange the PAYE, not the employer

What if the employer was intentionally not asking for his employer's P45 though? And deliberately trying to delay paying him. Is it the employee's fault for not handing in his P45 asap? :redface:

Just to clarify:

I have a P45. Here's a better question: is it possible to get paid whenever?

eg I've been working for a month on 1st December but I won't be registered for PAYE til later, most likely. Because if I get backpaid on Jan 1st that's just silly and very inconvenient!

And I don't think my employer should have left it to the last minute to tell me about all this administration that needs to be done before I get paid *angry*

 

[SpoiledPrincess]

Not having a P45 wouldn't mean you wouldn't be paid, you'd be on emergency tax code, as far as I know there's no legal obligation to pay the correct tax but there is a legal obligation to pay national insurance which isn't reliant on your P45.

 

[B_ScaredLittleBoy]

He says he can't/won't pay me until he has my P45 and National Insurance No. Which he then needs to give to his accountant, then his accountant will fill it in and send it off.

Is there a way to get paid without doing all that? Or at least more quickly/on time?

 

[SpoiledPrincess]

I'm going back a long time on this but as I remember he needs your national insurance number because it's a legal requirement that you pay national insurance but he doesn't need your P45 (although that has your national insurance number on it), in the absence of a P45 you'd be placed on emergency tax code, and a P60 filled in and sent off to the tax office who'd then send back a P45.

 

[B_ScaredLittleBoy]

Hmm okay. Sounds confusing. Yes, my P45 has my National Insurance ID on it so its strange that he'd need both of them. This is so annoying.

 

[SpoiledPrincess]

Have you given him your P45? And is this like a regular company or some guy working from home employing slave labour?

 

[B_ScaredLittleBoy]

Its his own company; me and him lol.

My P45 is here, he's in Manchester. I can give it to him when he gets back (the P45 lol).

I've been paid in cheques before...

 

[dong20]

Its his own company; me and him lol.

My P45 is here, he's in Manchester. I can give it to him when he gets back (the P45 lol).

I've been paid in cheques before...

Nothing wrong with being paid by cheque...a tad unusual though. I'm pretty sure that legally he cannot refuse to pay you solely because he doesn't have your P45 because it's not a legal requirement to have a P45.

I hope you resolve it soon!

 

[ManlyBanisters]

Its his own company; me and him lol.

My P45 is here, he's in Manchester. I can give it to him when he gets back (the P45 lol).

I've been paid in cheques before...

Get an email address/ fax or phone # for the accountant and send the info (NI number at least) directly to get the ball rolling. Tell the guy you want to get paid before Christmas because it is Christmas. Accept a cash advance if he offers, suggest it if he doesn't. He has a 'system' that is more favourable to him than you - this is not surprising. If it is a two horse company there's not much you can do other than try to strike a compromise with the guy. Or quit.

 

[dong20]

Have a read of HMRC guidance on PAYE. I think you will find your employer is either lying, incomptetent or playing fast and loose with employment and tax law. Or all three.

Act decisively or you may find yourself out of pocket! Best of luck. MB's advice is good, a Xmas advance may help!!

 

[B_ScaredLittleBoy]

Okay. The way he said it, his accountant has told him that he needs my NI P45...is he wrong/lying? That is, is there no way he could possibly require a P45 to pay me?

I'll email the accountant if that's the case. And read the Guidance while I wait for a reply. :smile:

Thanks, you's all been very helpful.

 

[dong20]

He needs your NI to verify you are eligible to work, and to pay employers contributions. This information should have been requested when you started employment.

Can you fax him a copy of your P45? If he won't accept this, something fishy is going on IMHO.

 

[B_ScaredLittleBoy]

I could email a scanned copy...is that acceptable? Also having trouble finding the PAYE guidance, just finding a lot of related yet not specific information, about Good Friday arrangements etc.



So should I scan the P45 and email it to my employer? or his accountant? Or email my NI number AND P45 to the accountant?

 

[ManlyBanisters]

He needs your NI to verify you are eligible to work, and to pay employers contributions. This information should have been requested when you started employment.

Can you fax him a copy of your P45? If he won't accept this, something fishy is going on IMHO.

Is the UK tax year still April to April - or have you gone calendar year yet? He maybe be waiting for the first of the year as that kind of thing makes a difference to a company's books in France and Ireland (we're on calendar year for tax now in both).

From when I was working in the UK the NI number is all your employer needs to pay you. I didn't have my Irish P45 because I had left itin Ireland - I paid emergency tax for a short while, got sorted and got a refund. Tax / P45 stuff can all be sorted out later. Get the NI number to the accountant now and stamp your little foot if he and the boss can't sort something out for you. Fax him a copy of the P45, as dong suggests, and send on the original in the post (retaining a copy for yourself).

 

[ManlyBanisters]

So should I scan the P45 and email it to my employer? or his accountant? Or email my NI number AND P45 to the accountant?

Yes - scan and email the P45 and follow up in the post. P45 has your NI # on it - but restate it in the email if you like - or send him a scan of the card to underline your point - but it isn't necessary.

 

[B_ScaredLittleBoy]

Scanned them in now. I'll email them to him.

 

[B_ScaredLittleBoy]

Okay apparently scanned copies weren't good enough. But I rang the accountant today (should I be doing that? ) and gave her my details and the bossman dropped the P45 off.

Now: this is my fourth week/end of the month and I don't think I'll be getting paid. Will I get paid asap (ie next week) for the previous month? Because I don't really want to get paid two months' in January! I need money to live lol.

Also, I thought National Minimum Wage was £5.35!?

Always something!