Understanding the mean and psychotic right

Chrysippus

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You said you're a Greek, yes? The seeds of Western civilization were sown by the Greeks 2500 years ago.

No, I am a born-and-bred native-son American, descended from Greek Christians paternally and Greek Sephardic Jews (originally from Toledo, Spain before Their Most Catholic Majesties, Ferd and Liz, expelled their Jews) maternally, so I'm not 'a Greek'.

And the contribution of Greece to our cultural heritage is only one, though significant, part of that heritage. The Greeks weren't the only ones 'sowing seeds' of what became Western civilization. Don't oversimplify.
 

malakos

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I had to divide this response up because it went over 10,000 characters.

I FAIL to see how a person who recently

Well, you noticed recently. I've discussed this topic a few times here in the past couple years.

acknowledged the racial aspects of HIS notion that people of different races function on different levels, mentally and emotionally

You probably misinterpreted what I said, which isn't uncommon for people to do when discussing this topic. I wasn't saying that individuals of a certain race inherently have starkly different mentalities. I was just saying there are moderate overall differences that manifest in the development of cultures but still there is plenty of variation on the individual level. So it's entirely possible that some individuals of African descent will have mentalities that fit better in European or Asian societies and vice-versa.

can claim to not promote ethno-nationalism

How? By doing so. How do these fit? I don't think these racial differences are so stark that it should prevent every one of us from being able to function appropriately within each others' societies. Because there are plenty of people of African and Asian descent who can function just fine in Western society, in light of the commingled and integrated state of most Western countries, it wouldn't be fair to exclude and even kick out functioning citizen simply because their race is different. Not to mention the fact the strategy for accomplishing such a thing would probably involve a humanitarian disaster.

My fundamental concerns are that my race can persist, that it is not exploited, and it is provided sufficient liberty that it may thrive. So long as these conditions can be satisfied I don't have a problem with a racially coexistent society.

Sounds like b.s. to me.

Assuming someone is lying is an easy and convenient way of writing it off when their expressed views do not come together in the way one would expect.

So too his somewhat limited definition of that which comprises the alt-right.

Limited? I'm simply representing the definition that the visible core of the Alt-Right has been using for their movement for years.

I suspect the links below will only confirm what I've said.

Rather convenient denial, IMO.

Convenient? Why should I care how the Alt-Right is defined beyond what appears to be accurate?


In the description:

The movement believes in protecting white European identity...

Yes, White/European identitarianism and political struggle to protect it, just as I said.

Its founder, Richard Spencer...

Mr. Spencer, whom I have spent some time watching, defines the underlying POV of the Alt-Right such: "Race is real. Race matters. Race is the foundation of identity."


The alt-right, or alternative right, is a loose group of people with far-rightideologies who reject mainstream conservatism in favor of white nationalism...

This just confirms what I said about White nationalism generally being understood to be fundamental to the Alt-Right.

Apparently even some mainstream sources mostly get it:

The Associated Press stated that the

'alt-right' or 'alternative right' is a name currently embraced by some white supremacists and white nationalists to refer to themselves and their ideology, which emphasizes preserving and protecting the white race in the United States in addition to, or over, other traditional conservative positions such as limited government, low taxes and strict law-and-order. The movement has been described as a mix of racism, white nationalism and populism...

Note that the AP suggested that prioritizing White identity over other concerns is indicative of the Alt-Right.

Newsday columnist Cathy Young noted the alt-right's strong opposition to both legal and illegal immigration and its hard-line stance on the European migrant crisis.

Taking a hard stance on illegal immigration falls short of the Alt-Right position. Taking a broad stance against all non-European immigration is what is actually indicative of the Alt-Right.


These two were just partisan analytical (to put it generously) take-downs of the Alt-Right. They didn't contribute much in defining the movement.
 

malakos

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Cosmo is really blurring the lines here and effectively is just portraying the Alt-Right as anyone seeking to preserve traditional power dynamics. This is of course silly. I think it's safe to say that the NBC article, the AP press article, and the Wikipedia article and all the sources it referenced are far more reliable than Cosmo. There are a few bits worth remarking on though:

...white supremacists who, for the most part, want America or large swaths of it to be dominated by white people...

This is essentially Cosmo's spin on defining the Alt-Right. By phrasing it this way they conjure images of White folk holding societal sway over other races. This bolsters their agenda of identifying anyone who is "racist" with the Alt-Right. But as we saw above, the Alt-Right isn't White supremacist in this sense, it is actually White separatist. It wants all non-Whites to stop coming in and then it wants those who are already here to go somewhere else. Often this is expressed in ideas of dividing up the USA into a few different race-states.

In other words, the movement champions white people at the expense of people of color and immigrants...

More spin. While this is technically true, it would suggest that just about any White person who is racist, even implicitly, is effectively an Alt-Righter. Which actually looking at it under a lens of logic like that, it is plain silly. Most other sources concur that holding to White nationalist ideology is fundamental to defining the Alt-Right.

"They've tried to broaden the definition so they can suck people into believing they’re alt-right, and then make themselves seem indispensable by saying, ‘Look at all these alt-right people,’” Ben Shapiro, a former Breitbart editor-at-large, told Slate.

Here's the first insightful thing said in the article, and lo and behold, it was from a Right-wing Jew. Mr. Shapiro certainly had considerable interaction with the Alt-Right and its sympathizers over the course of 2016, and he got this point of the movement's history spot on. The obfuscation of the clear definition of the Alt-Right was actually a strategy of the Alt-Right itself. Outwardly many of its adherents were presenting a more toned down version in hopes of getting a broader base of (mostly young) people interested.

However, this plan mostly backfired, and the product of it was the "Alt-Lite", an even larger group of Right-leaning individuals (exs: Paul Joseph Watson, Tomi Lahren, Gavin McGinnes, Lauren Southern) who held to the critiques of multiculturalism, globalism, feminism, Islam, and immigration, but who didn't jump on the White nationalism train and treated it coolly or ignored it. And interesting bit about this divide is it's actually the Alt-lite that has had the most ardent support for President Trump all throughout, whereas reaction to his presidency from the Alt-Right have become more and more tepid since the election.

The side effect of all this is what we have observed across these articles. Much of the press became confused as to what fundamentally the Alt-Right is about. It seemingly wasn't until after the election that some of the media started finding clarity. By now, as you can see, there is a core of the MSM that understands that the Alt-Right was really that White nationalist core all along. Apparently more fringe Leftist sources are continuing to take advantage of the former confusion.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-alt-right-analysis-20161121-story.html

And tracking back to the main point, from that LA Times article again on the AP qualifying the definition of the Alt-Right:

On Monday, the Associated Press issued an addition to its style guide, counseling caution on the use of alt-right and urging reporters to “avoid using the term generically and without definition.” It added, “In the past we have called such beliefs racist, neo-Nazi or white supremacist.” In a memo issued to its staff after the election, NPR said, “‘White nationalist’ is the most concise description.”

Back to Cosmo:

Yiannopoulos, who is openly gay, is loved by the "alt-right,"

That's either a lazy mistake or a lie. Mr. Yiannopoulos is actually loathed by the Alt-Right. That would be clear if one wandered and checked on any of their core online communities.

white nationalism is "the belief that national identity should be built around white ethnicity, and that white people should therefore maintain both a demographic majority and dominance of the nation's culture and public life."

Except that, as I mentioned before, the Alt-Right is by and large separatist. Cosmo even touches on this later on without realizing the logical consequences of doing so:

Spencer, the man who invented the term "alt-right," has, for instance, called for "peaceful ethnic cleansing,"

Precisely. Alt-Righters want non-Whites gone. They don't want them hanging around for some sadistic domination fantasy.

But the "alt-right" is more than just white nationalists. There is, for instance, a group within the "alt-right" that believe democracy is a failure and advocate for a monarchy. “Well, not monarchy specifically, but some kind of nondemocratic system with rule-driven succession,” according to Vox.com. This group calls itself "non-reactionaries."

Ugh. What an awful typo. The word is Neo-Reactionary, not Non-Reactionary. Lolz

For another thing... NRx was founded by Curtis Yarvin in 2007 before anyone had even thought of the Alt-Right. And the primary concerns of Neo-Reactionaries are very different from White nationalists.

Pepe the Frog is a mascot of the "alt-right."

Yes, however the Alt-Right does not have a monopoly on Pepe and the meme is used across the young online anti-SJW/anti-Left crowd.

Now I know (part of) why I've avoided going through your lists of links in the past.

jaa7pj5.jpg
 

malakos

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Odd, I spent twenty years teaching and doing research in university systems and have no notion of what you are talking about with your unsubstantiated generalization.

Oh, so, you've been living under a rock? Otherwise you probably would have noticed, for example the opposition to free speech, in thought, expression, and deed, that has developed among the young Left at American universities in the past few years. The demonstrations at Evergreen, Berkeley, Rutgers, LA, Oberlin.
 

malakos

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No, I am a born-and-bred native-son American, descended from Greek Christians paternally and Greek Sephardic Jews (originally from Toledo, Spain before Their Most Catholic Majesties, Ferd and Liz, expelled their Jews) maternally, so I'm not 'a Greek'.

Oh heavens! You were raised Greek Orthodox (I'm assuming in GOARCH). And sounds like recent ancestral immigration. I wasn't suggesting you weren't an American national. But it sounds like you're at least to some extent a cultural Greek.

And the contribution of Greece to our cultural heritage is only one, though significant, part of that heritage. The Greeks weren't the only ones 'sowing seeds' of what became Western civilization. Don't oversimplify.

How do you mean? As far as I know, in the earliest and most foundational stage of the development of Western civ the Hellenic contribution was by far the most significant.
 

Chrysippus

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Oh, so, you've been living under a rock? Otherwise you probably would have noticed, for example the opposition to free speech, in thought, expression, and deed, that has developed among the young Left at American universities in the past few years. The demonstrations at Evergreen, Berkeley, Rutgers, LA, Oberlin.

Sigh...the young American left (whatever the fuck you think that is) is not the university system. Free speech, inquiry, learning, and research are alive and well in universities. The university system is neither the demonstrations nor the demonstrators.

And no, I have never lived under a rock, and I do not live under one now.
 

Chrysippus

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You were raised Greek Orthodox (I'm assuming in GOARCH

Yes, raised Greek Orthodox, my wife converted, and all our kids were so raised, UNTIL a priest refused my gay son absolution unless he resolved to abstain from all homosexual acts from that confession forward. When I learned of this, I let our pastor know that I would no longer be a member of his congregation. It was a rupture that eventually involved other members of the congregation and the bishop. It caused familial estrangement between myself and members of my family who are GO clergy (incluing a bishop).

My son is a US marine, who eventually found support from an OCA (Orthodox Church in America) Navy chaplain who absolved my son, gave and continues to give him communion and a hearty Christian welcome to his congregation. My children continue to practice, I do not. While there are welcoming clergy and congregations and a national organization for LGBTQ Orthodox (Axios), for me it's not sufficient because there is no public, formal, loving, official embrace of gay laity by the hierarchy.

I remember the hostility of the Greek hierarchy toward Nikos Kazantzakis, and while it did not excommunicate him for his works and religious philosophy, it let K. know he was an enemy and no longer welcome (not that he was a practicing congregant). K's epitaph reflects the break and his own rejection of the church: 'I hope for nothing, I fear nothing, I am free'. That's how I feel. I will not participate in the liturgy and will not be buried from the church.

It explains, in part, my animus for fundamentalist right-wing Christianity and its inability to extricate itself from its doctrinal, ineluctable death-embrace with homophobia. Sub-rosa accomodations between individual priests and gay laity is hypocrisy. The Orthodox Church's inveteracy is mean, vicious, and unChristian.
 
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185248

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Anyone who types "lol" over and over in a post, obviously suffers from a severe case of Lollypop disease.

Too much candy to the brain.
 

BULLDOG00

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Yes, raised Greek Orthodox, my wife converted, and all our kids were so raised, UNTIL a priest refused my gay son absolution unless he resolved to abstain from all homosexual acts from that confession forward. When I learned of this, I let our pastor know that I would no longer be a member of his congregation. It was a rupture that eventually involved other members of the congregation and the bishop. It caused familial estrangement between myself and members of my family who are GO clergy (incluing a bishop).

My son is a US marine, who eventually found support from an OCA (Orthodox Church in America) Navy chaplain who absolved my son, gave and continues to give him communion and a hearty Christian welcome to his congregation. My children continue to practice, I do not. While there are welcoming clergy and congregations and a national organization for LGBTQ Orthodox (Axios), for me it's not sufficient because there is no public, formal, loving, official embrace of gay laity by the hierarchy.

I remember the hostility of the Greek hierarchy toward Nikos Kazantzakis, and while it did not excommunicate him for his works and religious philosophy, it let K. know he was an enemy and no longer welcome (not that he was a practicing congregant). K's epitaph reflects the break and his own rejection of the church: 'I hope for nothing, I fear nothing, I am free'. That's how I feel. I will not participate in the liturgy and will not be buried from the church.

It explains, in part, my animus for fundamentalist right-wing Christianity and its inability to extricate itself from its doctrinal, ineluctable death-embrace with homophobia. Sub-rosa accomodations between individual priests and gay laity is hypocrisy. The Orthodox Church's inveteracy is mean, vicious, and unChristian.

Try Islam instead. They are the religion of peace and tolerance.
 
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deleted15807

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That's a bit dramatic. I was merely speaking of wanting to preserve my race.

How do you intend to "preserve my race"? A european caste system of purity like in India? Laws banning certain unions? If indeed 'your race' is worthy of survival natural selection will make that determination not you.

I doubt anyone would get in such an uproar if any non-Europid had expressed such concerns.

But it's you that's doing it....always. And who the hell refers to themselves as "Europid"? You must read some real enlightening material.

Eugenics has been concerned with promoting traits that are viewed as superior and discouraging reproduction of traits viewed as inferior. Preservation of certain races or ethnicities (or even bloodlines in a familial sense) does not alone qualify that.

Different sides of the same coin. It's pretty clear what you think you other religions and races while refusing to come to the obvious conclusion of your long history of posts that walk the line of intolerance and hate. You're careful not to cross the line as MercuryG does but liking her posts that end up deleted as hate speech leaves the emperor with no clothes.
 
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185248

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Are you trying to say that you are against the religion of peace? I thought you were a tolerant liberal, a friend of the Muslims?
Take away your religious belief in guns. Your belief, the desire, the need to operate as a normal functioning human being without a gun at your side.

Your religion, your self confidence comes from having a high powered weapon strapped to your body.

Take it away from you, you would be?
 

BULLDOG00

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Take away your religious belief in guns. Your belief, the desire, the need to operate as a normal functioning human being without a gun at your side.

Your religion, your self confidence comes from having a high powered weapon strapped to your body.

Take it away from you, you would be?

VERY dangerous to anyone who threatened me or my family.

Take away your booze, and what would you be?
 
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185248

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VERY dangerous to anyone who threatened me or my family.

Take away your booze, and what would you be?

Thank you for answering my post with your usual waffle. Even if I did drink, all day and all night. You still would not be able to answer my questions in regard to your diatribe.

You wear a gun? Obviously I hit a sore point for you. As in the past. Because your usual reaction is to become a gun toting cowboy.

You are a laugh a minute, you know that? :)
 

MikesJohnson

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Take away your religious belief in guns. Your belief, the desire, the need to operate as a normal functioning human being without a gun at your side.

Your religion, your self confidence comes from having a high powered weapon strapped to your body.

Take it away from you, you would be?

I carry a gun in case of an emergency, such as being attacked by some thug like Trayvon Martin.
 
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