Unemployment benefit extensions

[bearvwe]

They used to tell me I was building a dream
And so I followed the mob
When there was earth to plow or guns to bear
I was always there, right on the job

They used to tell me I was building a dream
With peace and glory ahead
Why should I be standing in line
Just waiting for bread?

Once I built a railroad, I made it run
Made it race against time
Once I built a railroad, now it's done
Brother, can you spare a dime?

Once I built a tower up to the sun
Brick and rivet and lime
Once I built a tower, now it's done
Brother, can you spare a dime?

etc etc

 

[SilverTrain]

I repeat, the Democrats want to rewrite the tax bill at the 11th hour. TIME AND MONEY. They've had lots of time to do it before now. Why didn't they?

Because in a time of economic crisis, ensuring tax cuts for the wealthy is not looked upon favorably. And the Republicans have had lots of time to acknowledge that, and to move on. But they haven't.

The Republicans want to leave it alone and then move on to other issues.

NO. The tax cut bill is expiring. Ex-pir-ing. Making a new bill is a new action. The Repubs are the ones who want that. The last thing they want is to leave it alone.

Why is that such an ugly thing? Why can't you allow a bill to remain as one bill without wanting to add stuff to it that is not part of the original?

See: The History of Legislation, for examples.

Just about everyone, everywhere is needy right now. The problem is the money is so far gone we actually don't even have any. BOTH SIDES HAVE DONE THE WHOLE PORK PIE. You cannot blame one without blaming the other,

Yes, there's accountability to go around. But we're talking about the fact that the Republicans want the welfare to go to the rich, and not the needy. Keep spinning that all you want. But a duck's a duck.

 

[mwealex]

Yes, there's accountability to go around. But we're talking about the fact that the Republicans want the welfare to go to the rich, and not the needy. Keep spinning that all you want. But a duck's a duck.

Go back a learn a little history. After the Great Depression the economy started to recover and the Democrats increased taxes and the economy took a second dip. The current adminstration was proposing the same garbage before the last elections.

The Republicans don't want the welfare to go to the rich even though it might seem that way. Focused tax cuts are supposed to go to the groups that will best use the additional monies to stimulate spending and the economy. You can't give more tax cuts to the lower income groups because they don't pay taxes as it is. The middle class was stupid to believe the campaign rhetoric of no new taxes for them. The problem with trickle down economics is that by the time it gets to the lower classes it truly is a trickle.

Regardless of party affiliation the best thing that could happen at this point is to keep a portion of the tax cuts, let some go away and pay off the debt.

 

[Industrialsize]

Unemployment benefits are one of the best ways to stimulate economic growth:
A broad range of economists agrees that providing unemployed workers with extended UI benefits is one of the most effective of all available tax and spending options for stimulating the economy, since these workers, struggling to make ends meet after losing their paychecks, are likely to spend these benefits quickly.

Temporary expansions in unemployment insurance help to break the downward economic spiral created by job layoffs by providing benefits to families of unemployed workers. Because the spending needs of these families typically exceed their income following the loss of a job, the families are likely to spend a high percentage of any additional income they receive during their periods of unemployment….
Unemployment insurance thereby promotes additional spending by households with unemployed workers, boosting demand for products and protecting the jobs of workers in the firms that produce those goods and services. Temporary expansions in unemployment insurance consequently are a “win-win” proposition: They are quite effective at helping more people to keep their jobs during an economic downturn, while also helping those who are unfortunate enough to lose their jobs.


Senate Proposal to Add Unemployment Insurance Benefits Improves Effectiveness of Stimulus Bill — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

 

[dandelion]

The job market is evolving as are the skills needed to get a job and compete. This is why I think education is more important than ever.

This is why whatever degree you did thinking it would be a career was a waste of time. Education also has to be flexible and spending 3 years at the start doing it isnt so great.

 

[mwealex]

This is why whatever degree you did thinking it would be a career was a waste of time. Education also has to be flexible and spending 3 years at the start doing it isnt so great.

Not exactly. Degrees in science are always going to provide jobs and there are other degrees that are pretty sound. There are degrees that are a waste though.

You do raise a good point about how long it takes to get a degree. Most four year degrees could be completed in two years, much faster and much cheaper. It is not a universities job to make sure students are well rounded when they graduate.

 

[D_Sir Fitzwilly Wankheimer III]

I know, I know -- according to the Republicans all those people who collect un-employment are nothing but lazy and shiftless and just don't WANT to work (even though it was Republican tax cuts, outsourcing, etc. that PUT these people on the un-employment line!) So let's REALLY get fiscally conservative and vote down these benefits costing 18 billion all the while arguing that tax cuts for the wealthy costing 700 billion are just --- fine....necessary even.

Well -- it's Christmas. And let me quote here from Luke chapter 1 of the New Testament:
46And Mary said, “My soul magnifies the Lord, 47and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, 48for he has looked with favor on the lowliness of his servant. Surely, from now on all generations will call me blessed; 49for the Mighty One has done great things for me, and holy is his name. 50His mercy is for those who fear him from generation to generation. 51He has shown strength with his arm; he has scattered the proud in the thoughts of their hearts. 52He has brought down the powerful from their thrones, and lifted up the lowly; 53he has filled the hungry with good things, and sent the rich away empty. 54He has helped his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy, 55according to the promise he made to our ancestors, to Abraham and to his descendants forever.”

I hope all those good church going God fearing Republicans think hard and mighty about just whose side they are on when in the name of fiscal responsibility they are the AGENTS of repression of the poor and unemployed --- while advocating for those whom the Lord says he will send away empty handed! "Be not deceived -- God is not mocked!"

yeah, well come to my tiki bar and can see them drinking every day.

 

[D_Sir Fitzwilly Wankheimer III]

Not exactly. Degrees in science are always going to provide jobs and there are other degrees that are pretty sound. There are degrees that are a waste though.

You do raise a good point about how long it takes to get a degree. Most four year degrees could be completed in two years, much faster and much cheaper. It is not a universities job to make sure students are well rounded when they graduate.

science, business, yes, history, liberal arts, no

 

[D_Sir Fitzwilly Wankheimer III]

Well said.

The irony is that Bonehead and his crew whine about how NOT extending the hand-outs to the rich will impact jobs. My question...they've had their hand-outs for 10 years and jobs increased by a meager 1.2 million (vs. 23 million in the previous 10 years without the hand-out).

Also, if the GOP wants to link job creation with the tax breaks for their rich friends, why haven't they created any jobs in the course of the Great Recession that started in 2007?

Also, they want to reduce the deficit...by cutting government jobs and government spending. If the government isn't spending or employing who do they think is going to hire and spend? The rich?

Their argument is so transparent it's stupifying.

you say handouts to the rich. nobody getting a handout. it's their money to begin you just want to take their and spend it on crap.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

you say handouts to the rich. nobody getting a handout. it's their money to begin you just want to take their and spend it on crap.

Bullshit. Much of the money comes from taxpayers, and that comes from poor, working and middle class people. And yeah, I guess paying a light bill or for food may seem like "crap" to you. Then again, your dismissive rhetoric is also crap so it makes sense that some of your lingual turds don't make it to the septic tank where they belong.

 

[D_Davy_Downspout]

Unemployment benefits are not meant to be a long term entitlement. The governement is not responsible for providing you with a ways and means to live. You/I/We are.

Correct, UI is not supposed to be a long term benefit, this is an unusual circumstance and extending the benefits is not intended to be a replacement for getting job. It is a result of a very poor job market.

America cannot afford to add any NEW debt to anything. Period. Wake up people.

This is incorrect. Our debt load is not at a dangerous level currently, and a tax rates are extremely low. The wealth exists, it's just not being taxed.

The fact that the Democrats want to totally rewrite the tax bill at the 11th hour AND ADD PORK TO IT is beyond my comprehension. It takes time and MONEY to do that.

This is incorrect. The tax cuts form Bush were set to expire, because they are a huge drain on revenue and cause deficits. Some, but not all Dems feel that we can safely let the top bracket cuts expire without harming the economy, in order to help with the budget.

The Democrats had lots of time to pass the tax bill, but they waited too long and lost their bargaining position. Now they want to add more money to one bill for additional social programs.

The timing has to do with the disagreement with the GOP over the top bracket. Conservatives have delayed the bill, in both parties.

The Republicans want to leave it be as it was ORIGINALLY written. What is so wrong with that? It costs nothing and moves forward to the issue of unemployment to get its fair vote, not one tacked on to another bill.

Actually the GOP has stated it won't vote on anything without continuing tax cuts for the top bracket.

Almost every country in the world is facing serious economic depression and people everywhere are still asking their government to pay for this or that and blaming everyone and everything they can think of for just about every woe in their life.

No, not really.

Social welfare is not education. Education is one of the first major steps to independance for anyone. Social welfare is the epitomy of dependance. How the education is paid for could be considered part of social welfare though.

No, education is social welfare, just spent differently. You're trying to create a difference based on ideology.

I could dig up the stats but they really don't matter. We don't live in the same world as past generations. The job market is evolving as are the skills needed to get a job and compete. This is why I think education is more important than ever.

You're trying to make the argument for structural unemployment, rather than cyclical unemployment There is no credible economist that I know of that agrees with that, and the facts are not there to support you.

 

[b.c.]

Yep... unemployment benefits ending, jobless rate higher, colleges raising tuition amid student protests over higher costs and program cuts, and some Republicans in Congress talking more cuts while restoring tax benefits to the rich and raising the ceiling on Social Security retirement age to 68. Hmmm....

It's beginning to look like that "party" I've been predicting is about to "gear up" pretty soon now.

 

[XXLJohn1955]

you say handouts to the rich. nobody getting a handout. it's their money to begin you just want to take their and spend it on crap.

I've got to say that your ignorance is stunning. "Crap" like what? The military? Roads? Water, sewers, electric? Health care? Safe food? Decent air and water quality?

I happen to be a fiscal conservative and I hate government waste BUT, I also recognize that the notion that rich will rush to the financial rescue is pure bull. The rich have had their tax cuts for 10 years and they've done nothing but ship jobs overseas, invest in foreign assets or their own portfolios, and purchased goods -- including food -- that rarely comes from the United States. I know this because I come from a family of brothers who are in the top 2%.

The South is famous for its lack of unions, low taxes and minimal regulations...things that consistently make the South "The Best Business Climates". Nevertheless, jobs continue to go to China, Vietnam, India, Brazil... One brother, a CEO, closed a factory in Maine -- where taxes were "too high" -- moved it South Carolina -- and then, his Board demanded higher profits, closed the South Carolina facility and shipped those jobs to Hong Kong.

Assume for a second that we embrace a pure "free market" economy. Do you have any sense of that would actually mean? Do we want a return to the pre-Theodore Roosevelt "Gilded Age"? Are willing to return to a time when the United States was racked by recessions and depressions every few years? Are American's willing -- or, heck, even able, to live on Chinese, Indian, Vietnamese, or Brazilian wages? Are you?

Are you willing to live in high density neighborhoods served by privately built streetcar systems? Way more efficient and fiscally conservative than government supported sprawl.

Are you willing to see the defense budget slashed?

Are you willing to cut off subsidies (including tax incentives) to big corporations like Exxon?

The problem with people like you is that you think we should all "man up" but ignore the realities of the world in the 21st century.

 

[D_Davy_Downspout]

The rich pay a larger % of their income to taxes due to 2 reasons:

1) Decreasing marginal utility dollar. The more money you make, the less additional value it gives you. 100 dollars is nothing for a millionaire, but significant for a person on minimum wage. 10% of your income is a huge chunk for those at the bottom, but not nearly as much at the top. Food isn't nearly as much of an expense when you're rich, even if you're shopping at Whole Foods and going out to eat all the time.

2) The rich disproportionately benefit from the government. This is hard for some people to understand, because the issue is not often explained this way. Many people choose to view only direct payments as government assistance, and thus say that the poor get way more from the government, but this isn't so. The rich benefit more from education, policing, infrastructure, subsidies, etc.

 

[D_Davy_Downspout]

Assume for a second that we embrace a pure "free market" economy. Do you have any sense of that would actually mean? Do we want a return to the pre-Theodore Roosevelt "Gilded Age"? Are willing to return to a time when the United States was racked by recessions and depressions every few years? Are American's willing -- or, heck, even able, to live on Chinese, Indian, Vietnamese, or Brazilian wages? Are you?

Nobody actually wants to live in a "free market" economy, nor are they actually talking about a "free market" when they mention it. They're talking about a market engineered to benefit them, or to move money upward.

The term is a framing of the issue, not a reflection of reality.

 

[XXLJohn1955]

Nobody actually wants to live in a "free market" economy, nor are they actually talking about a "free market" when they mention it. They're talking about a market engineered to benefit them, or to move money upward.

The term is a framing of the issue, not a reflection of reality.

I'm not sure (anymore) that those who are drinking the "free market" Kool-Aid understand the complexity inherent in the details which is why we see low and middle income voters shifting to the Right when it's clearly not in their best (economic) interests.

 

[B_talltpaguy]

I could dig up the stats but they really don't matter. We don't live in the same world as past generations. The job market is evolving as are the skills needed to get a job and compete. This is why I think education is more important than ever.

Kinda hard to be credible when you can't back up your assertions.

Lacking any evidence to the contrary, I must conclude that you have a predetermined ideology that you are attempting to distort reality to suit. And that's no way to manage anything.

Education isn't more important than ever, it's always been vitally important.

I'll tell you what you should be worrying about... ensuring that the workforce starts sharing in the spoils of their labor again, and soon. Fuck people over long enough and they will rebel and destroy their oppressors.

 

[deleted15807]

Fuck people over long enough and they will rebel and destroy their oppressors.

I've come to the conclusion Americans do indeed love getting fucked. They've been getting fucked since the 'Reagan Revolution'. But that was kiddy fucking. Now they're getting power fucked and they still love it.

 

[B_talltpaguy]

^Give it another 4 months, tops... By then my guess is you'll hear even many of the stupid people stop loving the fucking they're getting.

Remember, Bush got re-elected in 2004 and people got pissed pretty quick in 2005 too.

 

[JTalbain]

I've come to the conclusion Americans do indeed love getting fucked. They've been getting fucked since the 'Reagan Revolution'. But that was kiddy fucking. Now they're getting power fucked and they still love it.

Only it's weird because they don't even realize that they're getting fucked. It's like the book "What's Wrong With Oklahoma" (I think that's the name) People have voted consistently Republican in that state, and don't seem to realize that the stated Republican agenda is actually antithetical to their states economy and best interests.

We're living in an age where a well-spun lie often carries more weight than facts and proof.:frown1: