Unity,N.H.? Not So Much...

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Trinity, Jun 27, 2008.

  1. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

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    Unity in Unity, N.H.? Not so much for some Hillary Clinton backers

    Los Angeles Times
    Scott Martelle
    June 27, 2008

    Our cousins over at The Swamp have an item this morning spotlighting just how nagging a problem Barack Obama faces in trying to woo some disappointed Hillary Clinton supporters in facing off against John McCain. It seems a couple of notable New Hampshire Democrats -- James McConaha, a former Clinton administration farm official in New Hampshire, and his Democratic activist wife, Valery Mitchell -- have no intention of hopping aboard the Unity bus.
    Picking up a story in the Nashua Telegraph, the couple have agreed to lead Democrats for John McCain. And that's not the only anti-Obama group out there comprising Clinton supporters. In fact, though polls show most of her backers moving to Obama, there is a large and vociferous crowd out there that refuses to go along.
    Whether this is enough of a counter tide to have an impact in November is the big question, of course. And it will matter most in the battleground states -- a few thousand Clinton supporters voting for McCain here in California, for instance, isn't likely to turn the state red. But it could be an issue in states where the red-blue divide is narrower.
    Regardless, campaigns are an amalgamation of a lot of moving parts, and it can't be a good distraction for the Obamans to have to go out and try to run down strays from the Democratic herd.

    -- Scott Martelle
     
    #1 Trinity, Jun 27, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2008
  2. Notaguru2

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    Enough with the sour grapes. The DNC, the party and Obama will be fine without you. We welcome your choice to leave the party as its obvious we have nothing in common with you. Why don't you find something to be FOR, rather than AGAINST? Your pessimistic, scornful ways are really detracting from your outer beauty.

    As one LPSG member put it; We have logged more than 19 (probably more than that now) pages of anti-Obama smut from you. We all know exactly where you stand and we won't ever forget it; I assure you.

    Now, can you please move on? People on this board have determined who they are voting for, be it McCain or Obama. Some people may switch after VPs are selected but it will be rare. With that in mind, what is your point?

    As Hillary Clinton just said from Unity, NH:

    Clinton noted that the Arizona senator and the GOP probably hoped she wouldn't join forces with Obama.

    "But I've got news for them: We are one party, we are one America and we are not going to rest until we take back our country and put it once again on the path to peace, prosperity and progress in the 21st century," Clinton said to cheers.



    - AP Reporting
     
    #2 Notaguru2, Jun 27, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2008
  3. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

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    I've discussed the Presidential Election just like other members who have done exactly the same. My information has been true, accurate and documented. Just because it was not favorable or supportive to Obama that does not make it smut. Now, your tirades? Yeah, smut.

    I don't have sour grapes. This is about more than a candidate not winning the nomination. I, like many democrats supported Democratic candidates that did not win. This is about what is wrong in the Party, what went wrong in the Primary and "selecting" a candidate.

    This will continue to be discussed until...maybe November. Obama chose to go a "Unity Tour" demonstrating just how weak he is as a candidate. Have you ever heard of a Presidential Candidate making his Opponent and spouse beg and plead voters to vote for him across the 50 states? An Opponent who hasn't been chosen as VP? It's as if Obama needs another KingMaker to put him into office and he can't do himself. If Bill and Hillary succeed in convincing enough of their voters will Obama go half-sies on the Presidency with Hillary? This isn't about money. This is about votes and the Presidency of the United States...since that office is most certainly not for sale.

    If he doesn't need Disaffected Democrats, by all means please write Barack and tell him to cancel his "Unity Kingmaker Tour" He needs to do the work to get voters to believe in him and support him anyway.

    I'm discussing it...because we are the Democrats he's trying to woo. He's selling his message and this is ours. There needs to be sweeping changes in the Democratic Party and We will not shut up and sit down and jump on the Unity bandwagon for Barack Obama or the Party. Justice must be served. If the Democratic Party wanted Unity, they should have seen to the fairness of the Primary and their Party.
     
  4. HazelGod

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    Quoted for its absolute motherfucking truth.
     
  5. Industrialsize

    Staff Member Moderator Gold Member

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    yawn
     
  6. Bbucko

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    Will the last one to leave Crazytown please shut off the lights?
     
  7. marleyisalegend

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    In that case, let's stay behind Bbucko, there were some things I wanted to discuss with you, in the dark.:wink:.

    It's clear Trinity's goal is not just to bash Barack "Future Prez" Obama, she's trying to discourage his voters by presenting his campaign as an impossible mountain that a limbless man is attempting to climb. Anyone who's paying attention to approval ratings and the candidates' speeches (instead of TMZ.com and the AP) knows that Obama has the same chance of winning as Michael Jordan has shooting a two-pointer standing on a ladder 2 inches away from the net with a hoop the size of a bathtub.

    Next week Obama and I will be moving some of his things to 1400 Pennsylvania ave. Any volunteers? There will be drinks and go-go dancers. He didn't approve but I just don't give a fuck!! In the words of the late Rick James, "It's a celebration bitches!"
     
    #7 marleyisalegend, Jun 27, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2008
  8. davec94

    davec94 Member

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    if hillary had won the nomination she would be doing the exact same thing right now. this race was like no other primary, and with that, any comparisons that start with "have you ever heard of" are somewhat irrelevant given the unorthodox nature of the primary to begin with. You can't judge the unprecedented using precedent and get a very good result. We saw this meme over and over again throughout the primary.

    Any questions of how strong a candidate this one is can be more or less brushed off by reexamining the facts that he
    - went from being a relatively unknown competitor to go on to defeat by far the most well-known, established candidate in the race.

    - managed to survive a tag team effort by the GOP and Hillary campaigns to dethrone him towards the later parts of his campaign.

    - raised record amounts of funds from record (by far) numbers of unique donors without tapping lobby groups.


    I think he has proven himself far beyond a shadow of a doubt, that he is indeed strong enough to take the election. That he is making a concerted effort to reunite the party simply shows that he is aware of the nature of this primary and the heated emotions involved, and that he gives enough of a shit to make an effort to reduce the fallout.
     
  9. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

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    Obama only proved that he is politician enough to exploit holes in our democracy. Obama proved that there are changes that need to made in the Democrat Party for fairness and to have a truely Democratic Party that stands on its name.

    Obama only cares about Unifying the Democratic Party behind it's new King - Himself...he took over the DNC and moved it to Chicago and even produced his own phoney seal for his kingdom. He wants all the followers in line and swallowing hook, line and sinker the Obama empty rhetoric. If he cared about Unity, Obama would have seen to the fairness in such a tight primary race...to determine a valid winner there could be no question of fairness.

    Obama took his name off the Michigan ballot in a political power move, and in the DNC RBC meeting actually claimed he could have had a even split though he actually earned NO delegates and the DNC fabricated an election result. There are too many examples to list and they have been discussed in detail...Obama was selected by the DNC leadership and outside of our own DNC rules...therefore many voters will not Unify around a selected Nominee and won't support Obama asking his Opponent to "King Him"

    This Primary was indeed unprecedented but the Unity Tour isn't indicative of that how close the race was...it's indicative of the type of candidate the Democratic Party selected. You are right about Obama being unknown, woefully inexperienced and basically a weak candidate. So Obama calls on the Clinton Dynasty to GET him elected as he has done before. If he is such a "brilliant" man...he should be able to get the voters himself. He shouldn't need to rely on his opponent to win the White House. Either Barack Obama is the "Unifyer" he claims to be...Either Barack Obama can sit down and persuade the "Enemy" or CAN'T.

    Obama needs Hillary and President Clinton....looks like he can't. Just words.
     
  10. davec94

    davec94 Member

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    he didnt exploit holes, unless you really believe that caucuses are undemocratic. in fact he's run one of the fairest campaigns that ive seen.

    As for Michigan, he took his name off the ballot along with every other candidate except Hillary in a unified (yes i said it) move to respect the party wishes. it would be unfair to give the michigan delegates as-is because only one candidate was on the ballot. That would be a 'hole' in democracy, don't you agree? The only fair results were an even split, or no delegates at all for any candidate for michigan. Either one would end up with the same result - him still being ahead.

    And finally, calling him weak because he is rallying his opponent around him is just silly. Hillary would have expected the same. Guiliani, Romney and Huckabee did the same for McCain. it's not a sign of weakness, it's the whole point behind these people being members of a political party. By your logic the only strong candidate is an independant - which rules out everyone in this election.
     
  11. Bbucko

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    <yawn>

    Hillary and Obama were never "opponents", they were competitors for the nomination. Hillary supports Obama now. Those who were loyal to her would be wise to follow her example.
     
  12. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

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    The Primary vs. Caucus Report clearly shows that Obama exploited an undemocratic hole in our election system and Party System. Obama's slight lead against Sen. Clinton was almost entirely garnered from caucuses won where he did not win the majority of votes and was awarded more delegates. Read the Report! Caucuses were part of it, but so was the proportional allocation of delegates vs. winner take all by the Republicans, the SuperDelegate role, and lack of a clear plan to fairly elect a nominee in a closely contested Primary by the Democratic Party.

    Chris Dodd did not remove his name from the ballot. A further, released the following statement:
    "We are committed to the importance of Iowa and New Hampshire going first, and we signed the four-state pledge to hopefully prevail upon the DNC and the state parties to add clarity to that situation. However, it does not benefit any of us if we are the nominee to pull our name off the ballot and slight Michigan voters."
    Going strictly by DNC rules which take into account "Uncommitted" the delegates would go to Candidates on the ballot even if one is "Uncommitted." Obama and the rest chose to remove their names of their own accord. You can call it unity or whatever you like...it was a political power move that Obama later used to his advantage to demonstrate how imperiled our Democratic Party and how our charter, rules and guidelines are manipulated by Party leaders.

    There can be no even split. Either there is a fair revote or the primary results stand. I see that you are a member of the UnDemocratic Party...let's just split the votes... let's not even bother with a fair election.:rolleyes:

    Rallying his opponent is commendable...its wonderful to get the endorsement. But to have your opponent who you are not intending to hold the highest office in the land with you GET you elected?...beg and plead to get votes for you? That is not a President. That is a weak candidate propped up by Party leaders who doesn't have the goods. Again if Obama is all of that...he should be able to convince the voters himself. The lack of fairness in the process challenged the validity of the Nominee. The Democratic Party did this to themselves. Oh and concerning the Republicans...nobody is doing what Obama wants Hillary and Bill to do...come on.

    political opponents...google it since you seem to be unaware of the term.

    Those who are loyal to Hillary Clinton will always remain loyal to Hillary, but they will vote as their own conscience leads them to vote. In light of the current state of the Democratic Party and the choice of a selected Nominee, loyalty to Hillary does not lead me to support Barack Obama.
     
  13. Bbucko

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    Why did I bother?

    Enjoy the crazy, dear. And don't forget that the meds only work when you take them.
     
  14. sargon20

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    Ignore list!! It's the only way. Ever been at a party and been trapped with a 'social undesirable'....you flee and never look back!! She's bascially in a corner now talking to herself.
     
  15. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

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    Obama, Clinton united in Unity

    Democrats appear together as he tries to win her backers

    McClatchy-Tribune June 28, 2008 UNITY, N.H. - Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton embraced, praised each other and locked hands in unity yesterday, hoping to convince legions of still-skeptical Clinton backers to rally around her one-time rival.

    "She rocks. That's the point I'm trying to make," a grinning Obama told the throng of 4,000 squeezed into a soccer field in the small western New Hampshire town of Unity.

    While they got polite applause, the cheers weren't overwhelming, and many Clinton backers said they still needed time to get comfortable with Obama.

    "I don't feel united," said Malka Yaacobi, a musician from Cambridge, Mass. "I still support Hillary. It's hard to know what Obama stands for."


    Both candidates said that their six-month rivalry, which ended 3 weeks ago when the Illinois senator clinched the Democratic presidential nomination, was history.

    "We may have started on separate paths, but today our paths have merged," Clinton said. "Today our hearts are set on the same destination for America."

    Barriers broken

    Obama spoke of how their campaigns had shattered barriers, and how they faced gender and racial bias.

    But, he said, because of Clinton's campaign, "My daughters and all your daughters will know there's no barrier to who they are. ... They will take for granted women can do anything that the boys can do, and do it better, and do it in heels. I still don't know how she does it in heels."

    Clinton mixed praise for Obama with some uncharacteristic asides during her 20-minute talk. For instance, the New York senator praised him for a "spirited dialogue," which she called "the nicest way I could think of phrasing it."

    But that was OK.

    "It was spirited because we cared so much," a slightly smiling Clinton said. Yesterday, though, she wanted her backers to create "an unstoppable force," declaring, "We are one party."

    Those were welcome words to Obama.

    "I know firsthand how good she is, how tough she is, how passionate she is, how committed she is to the causes that brought all of us here today," he said.

    "We need them," Obama said of the Clintons. "We need them badly."

    Obama, who spent most of his speech contrasting his views with those of Republicans, needs not only Clinton's voters, but also their enthusiasm. He and Clinton picked Unity as the site for yesterday's rally not just for its name, but also because they tied here in the January primary: Each got 107 votes.

    Clinton urged her backers to come to Obama's side, reminding them "those votes were not just for us. Each vote cast was a prayer for our nation."

    Still, her supporters often noted that accepting Obama is a still-evolving process.

    "I'm just afraid he'll be like Jimmy Carter," said Kay Gould, an East Burke, Vt., nurse, recalling the one-term Democratic president who lost his re-election bid in 1980.

    "I'm for Obama by default, because any Democrat will do."

    Linda Rhines of Somerville, Mass., an international consultant, had the same hesitation about Obama.

    "I'm absolutely inspired by him, but he is inexperienced," she said. She noted that Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick was elected with a similarly thin resume and is stumbling.

    "I just don't think I'm going to really know Obama, or know about him, until he's been in office," Rhines said.

    Some were unimpressed enough to reject Obama outright.

    "Obama is an insult to every thinking person and especially every woman," said Sharon Chang, a biomedical researcher from Hampton, N.H.



    Endurance test

    To many, though, yesterday's logistical endurance test - shuttle buses came from 12 miles away, and people waited an hour to clear security once they got here before waiting another three hours in sun-baked 87-degree heat - was part of an important healing process.

    Clinton urged them to join Obama.

    To those who are thinking of voting for Republican John McCain or not voting, she said, "I strongly urge you to reconsider. I hope many of you will work as hard for Senator Obama as you did for me."

    It was the kind of message that Jeremiah Schuyler, a Jeffersonville, Vt., teacher, had come to hear.

    "It was worth driving 2 hours and spending $50 on gas," he said. "I don't know if all this will help with unity, but it's historic."
     
  16. transformer_99

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    HRC is right where they want her to be, $ 20-30 million in debt, she'll say anything they want her to say about being unified and she'll do it with a smile on her face too !
     
  17. Industrialsize

    Staff Member Moderator Gold Member

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    Actually.......conventional wisdom says that Bill and Hillary need Obama more than he needs them or they risk sliding into political Oblivion..
     
  18. sargon20

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    The Clinton Machine and dynasty are over.


    Angry Clinton Women &#9829; McCain?
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/15/opinion/15rich.html
     
  19. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

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    Yet and still Barack Obama needs Hillary Clinton on the campaign trail with one foot in political oblivion as you suggest? and Sen. Clinton's husband President Clinton too?

    Hmmm...conventional wisdom says that Barack Obama lacks the experience and the substance to get there on his own and is using the power and the might of the Clinton Dynasty to do it.

    Obama needs yet another KingMaker because he is a weak candidate.

    -I don't believe it is up to Hillary Clinton to win the election for Barack Obama. If white working class voters and Jewish voters and Hispanic voters and older women and so on are going to be attracted to Barack Obama, it's not going to be because Hillary Clinton told them to be attracted to him. Obama is the going to have to get them himself.
    He is [the] presidential candidate. Why all of a sudden, when I think one of the generally agreed upon rules of politics is that, for the most part, vice presidential candidates don't bring much with them, why should Hillary Clinton be expected to do all these things for Obama. He needs to do them for himself... - RealClearPolitics
     
  20. sargon20

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