Universal Health Care

D

deleted15807

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HMOs don't have the authority to deny emergency medical treatment.

Only if you have a means to pay or have actively sought to hide such means. If you don't and can prove it you cannot be pursued for payment.

Do you work for the insurance industry or a lobbyist for them? You're playing word games. You talk like a 'claims adjuster'.

Correct they can't DENY emergency medical treatment. They can simply deny paying for it. Subtle yet critical difference.
 

Mem

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That's not in dispute, but in your own words they are the extremes.:rolleyes:

Then why bring it up?:rolleyes:

Because I wanted to bring it up.

They may be extremes but they are not fakes or lies.

Be careful your eyes may stay that way, and you will need UMC.
 

dong20

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Do you work for the insurance industry or a lobbyist for them? You're playing word games. You talk like a 'claims adjuster'.

You are so far off base there.:smile:

Correct they can't DENY emergency medical treatment. They can simply deny paying for it. Subtle yet critical difference.

I see you corrected yourself, thank you. I haven't been talking about payment, I was only talking about treatment as initiated by Mem in post 2 or 3, also a subtle yet critical difference.
 

dong20

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Because I wanted to bring it up.

Then why say to me it's not about the movie? Because I pulled down your premise for introducing it? :rolleyes:

They may be extremes but they are not fakes or lies.

Your point being?

Be careful your eyes may stay that way, and you will need UMC.

I have no idea what you're taking about - but my eyes are fine, and I already do, thank you for your concern though.
 
D

deleted15807

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I see you corrected yourself, thank you. I haven't been talking about payment, I was only talking about treatment as initiated by Mem in post 2 or 3, also a subtle yet critical difference.

Huph!! Payment = TREATMENT!!!
 

dong20

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Huph!! Payment = TREATMENT!!!

Not exactly.

Because I must assume no one here can read, I have been talking about emergency medical treatment, which must be provided regardless of means to pay.

I'm not saying that treatment is never refused, or willfully substandard treatment never provided, merely that this would in the case of a genuine emergency almost certainly be illegal and ground for malpractice respectively.

The issue I assume Mem is talking about is more along the lines of socialised medicine. Another discussion altogether, but he initiated the issues of emergency treatment refusal being 'effectively the norm' and added some tangential movie references, not I.
 
D

deleted15807

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Not exactly.

Because I must assume no one here can read, I have been talking about emergency medical treatment, which must be provided regardless of means to pay.

I'm not saying that treatment is never refused, or willfully substandard treatment never provided, merely that this would in the case of a genuine emergency almost certainly be illegal and ground for malpractice respectively.

The issue I assume Mem is talking about is more along the lines of socialised medicine. Another discussion altogether, but he initiated the issues of emergency treatment refusal being 'effectively the norm' and added some tangential movie references, not I.

Emergency room treatment is not medical care. It's were the non-insured increasingly go for medical care. It is no substitute for seeing a doctor on a regular basis. Those with insurance get a lot more 'care' than those who are not. Those without health insurance only need be 'stabilized'. And that is a very subjective determination.

DESASTRES.org - Hospitals Try to Limit Emergency Room 'Abuse'
 

Mem

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The issue I assume Mem is talking about is more along the lines of socialised medicine. Another discussion altogether, but he initiated the issues of emergency treatment refusal being 'effectively the norm' and added some tangential movie references, not I.

Because there will be no refusals of Emergency care, regardless of ability to pay, if there is UMC.

Medical care is a necessity and should not be a luxury.
 

B_InDepth

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common sense says if everybody in the country had health insurance it would be the same as if you bought it yourself... cause how does the govt get the money to pay for it..? unless they print more money or put us farther in debt to pay for it.. which is even worse... our govt is teaching people to be irresponsible by giving them free healthcare... the way the govt should do it is get ride of medical insurance companies and the big buisnesses that own hospitals.. then force hospitals to remain mainly independent so there would be competition.. why would you keep a middle man (insurance companies) involved if the govt was trying to make healthcare affordable... does having a middle man involved ever make anything cheaper.? ? people have to be more responsible for themselves you cant rely on the govt for everything.. someday there may not be a govt then what would happen... socialism is when a govt takes care of the people in everyway.. also known as a slave state... our forefather created a democracy which gives everyman the inalliable rights of life liberty and freedom... and when you pay 50%of your income in taxes and fees to pay for BIG GOVT and socialized healthcare i think having no money prevents you from freedom and life because you have to work your life and freedom away..!


think aboout it people
 

dong20

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Because there will be no refusals of Emergency care, regardless of ability to pay, if there is UMC.

Medical care is a necessity and should not be a luxury.

Yes it is and I entirely agree that a minimum level medical care should be a given regardless of financial status. But I'm responding to your assertions about emergency medical care provision, remember?

Emergency room treatment is not medical care. It's were the non-insured increasingly go for medical care. It is no substitute for seeing a doctor on a regular basis. Those with insurance get a lot more 'care' than those who are not. Those without health insurance only need be 'stabilized'. And that is a very subjective determination.

DESASTRES.org - Hospitals Try to Limit Emergency Room 'Abuse'
You will try anything to wriggle out of being mistaken won't you?:rolleyes:

What is it then? Oh, I guess it would be medical treatment - an entirely different thing because in the emergency room if you're poor the doctors don't care. You're describing preventative, routine and non emergency medical treatment (care), and abuse of the ER by the uninsured, I'm not.

If you're willing to agree that there is a legal obligation to provide emergency medical treatment or care (whatever word you Prefer) regardless of proven or unproven ability to pay at the point of delivery then we can move on, otherwise you're just wasting my time.
 

HazelGod

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If you're willing to agree that there is a legal obligation to provide emergency medical treatment or care (whatever word you Prefer) regardless of proven or unproven ability to pay at the point of delivery then we can move on, otherwise you're just wasting my time.

Dong, I admire your persistence...but considering the initiator of this topic, you'd probably have more success explaining quantum mechanics to kindergarteners.

And now, I'm gonna party like it's...
<----------------
 

arliss

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Dong, I admire your persistence...but considering the initiator of this topic, you'd probably have more success explaining quantum mechanics to kindergarteners.

And now, I'm gonna party like it's...
<----------------


LMAOOOOOO:biggrin1::biggrin1::biggrin1::biggrin1::biggrin1:
 
D

deleted15807

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Yes it is and I entirely agree that a minimum level medical care should be a given regardless of financial status. But I'm responding to your assertions about emergency medical care provision, remember?


You will try anything to wriggle out of being mistaken won't you?:rolleyes:

What is it then? Oh, I guess it would be medical treatment - an entirely different thing because in the emergency room if you're poor the doctors don't care. You're describing preventative, routine and non emergency medical treatment (care), and abuse of the ER by the uninsured, I'm not.

If you're willing to agree that there is a legal obligation to provide emergency medical treatment or care (whatever word you Prefer) regardless of proven or unproven ability to pay at the point of delivery then we can move on, otherwise you're just wasting my time.

Isn't this all a waste of time? It's not like you or I have a board of directors meeting to attend. Or what we say is going to have an effect on governemnt policy.

You give legal justification for emergency 'attention' but in reality it's inadequate and that is all I'm saying. Life expectancy in the United States is behind 40 other countries. And access to health care is one main reason.
 

Mem

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Dong, I admire your persistence...but considering the initiator of this topic, you'd probably have more success explaining quantum mechanics to kindergarteners.

And now, I'm gonna party like it's...
<----------------


The part you quoted wasn't even directed at me. Or are you hard of understanding?
 

Ethyl

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If you receive emergency room care, don't have insurance, and can't pay for it then, hospitals will bill you. If you don't pay it, more often than not they'll write it off sooner or later.

The real problem is walking into a doctor's office without an insurance card. They expect payment upon services rendered and if you can't pay, you are SOL.
 

justndav

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Ok before I took my current job in the meteorology field, let me tell you a few things. I worked for United Health Care based out of Minnesota. Our division of the company was responsible for claims. We had people in TN that we administered Medicaid to, Americhoice is the name of the program. If someone went to the ER for what was deemed a non emergent situation we would NOT pay the claim period, no questions asked and the person would be responsible for 100&#37; of the cost.
Also we would have members that had regular commercial coverage or their Medicare administered through UHC. Well sometimes they would get an approval for a procedure and then the Dr. would file the claim after said procedure was done. Guess what? A lot of those claims would be denied for not having the proper authorization, and if to much time elapsed (usually 90 days) then the authorization could not be corrected and the mem. is responsible for 100% of the cost.
Also there is a lot of stuff that goes on in between the walls of an insurance company as it relates to claims that I am not going to talk about as I do not want to be sued, but I CAN ASSURE you that it is not at all ethical in the least.

After seeing what I saw working there, yes I support Universal Healthcare 100%. For the people that work you could subsidize their premiums based on wages earned. Obviously if you are poor you would get a bigger subsidy. If you have coverage thru an employer you could just claim the employee contributions on your tax return and get a portion of them back again depending on how much money you make. Or if we would go to a truly not for profit system then like other's have said taxes would have to go up. Taxes have needed to be raised for sometime considering the deficit we are running and being at war STILL.
 

viking1

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Universal health care would be great, if done properly. We know our government won't do it properly. Everything the government gets in on becomes a bigger mess. Insurance is very crooked, and is another government sponsored rip off. This isn't about to change anyway soon.

If we do get national health care, it will favor the wealthy like everything else the government has ever done. Yes, we are behind other industrial countries in many things due to greed of those who run the government and businesses. This country is in one hell of a shape, and if I had the means I'd leave this fucking place for good...