Universal Health Care

[th3on3]

if hilary is president she will force you to pay for health care even if you dotn want it, thats not democracy that dictatorship,how is somebody going to tell me i have to pay for something that i'm not going to use? does that make any sense? If Hilary wants to make sure poor people have health insurance, why don't she come out her own pocket and pay for it

 

[D_Prudence_Admonition_Drightits]

I am all for Universal Health Care. Capitalism has no place in the healthcare market. It is absolutely sad to see insurance companies play with people's lives. Denying vital health care like gods all for the sake of making a huge year end profit.

 

[vince]

if hilary is president she will force you to pay for health care even if you dotn want it, thats not democracy that dictatorship,how is somebody going to tell me i have to pay for something that i'm not going to use? does that make any sense? If Hilary wants to make sure poor people have health insurance, why don't she come out her own pocket and pay for it

^Another "No Child Left Behind" success story.

 

[headbang8]

people don't die because they don't get health care, they die usually because they don't eat healthy, if you ate healthy you wouldnt get sick, if you dont get sick you dont need a doctor,if you dont need and doctor then need to bitch and moan about health care, plain and simple

Yes, my grandmother ate healthy and she lived to be 250. The only reason she died was because a bus ran over her, and if she hadn't eaten that cream doughnut the night before, I'm sure she could have taken on the bus, no sweat.

 

[What to do?]

I think that a universal health care system would be great except for the people who go to the hospital for EVERYTHING! I see it everyday. People are sitting in the ER because they need an ingrown toenail removed. Americans think that if their child's nose runs, they need to run to the ER. I think people need to learn how to care for some things themselves before a universal health system is put into place. How about limited coverage? ER trip for broken bone - you pay $0...ER trip for cough that you have had all weekend, but waited until Monday so that you could legitimately miss work - you pay for the full amount...DR visit for regular well check up - $0...DR visit to properly assess the color of your child's snot - you pay full amount...see a pattern? A disproportionate amount of these patients are getting government health care already. I think that all people should be given health care that is NEEDED, but not allowed to take it overboard.

 

[headbang8]

I think that a universal health care system would be great except for the people who go to the hospital for EVERYTHING! I see it everyday. People are sitting in the ER because they need an ingrown toenail removed. Americans think that if their child's nose runs, they need to run to the ER. I think people need to learn how to care for some things themselves before a universal health system is put into place. How about limited coverage? ER trip for broken bone - you pay $0...ER trip for cough that you have had all weekend, but waited until Monday so that you could legitimately miss work - you pay for the full amount...DR visit for regular well check up - $0...DR visit to properly assess the color of your child's snot - you pay full amount...see a pattern? A disproportionate amount of these patients are getting government health care already. I think that all people should be given health care that is NEEDED, but not allowed to take it overboard.

Most universal health care systems have some mechanism to do that. Usually auditing doctors (which they hate) or making everyone visit a (relatively cheap) GP before eatiing up expensive specialists' time.

 

[What to do?]

Most universal health care systems have some mechanism to do that. Usually auditing doctors (which they hate) or making everyone visit a (relatively cheap) GP before eatiing up expensive specialists' time.

Really! I did not know that!
What about ERs? Are they kicked out when triaged? (What fun that would be) If the nonsense would be eliminated, then I am for it 100%.

 

[headbang8]

Really! I did not know that!
What about ERs? Are they kicked out when triaged? (What fun that would be) If the nonsense would be eliminated, then I am for it 100%.

Yep. Non-emergencies are asked to attend a clinic. (Ususally hospitals big enough to have an emergency room, also have an outpatient clinic.)

 

[Drifterwood]

US life expectancy is 41st in the world and the infant survival rate is 40th.

The old people who died in the exceptional heat wave in Europe in 2003 would already have been dead had they been in the US.

 

[deleted15807]

And this just in from LA Times:

The state's largest for-profit health insurer is asking California physicians to look for conditions it can use to cancel their new patients' medical coverage.

"Any condition not listed on the application that is discovered to be pre-existing should be reported to Blue Cross immediately," the letters say. The Times obtained a copy of a letter that was aimed at physicians in large medical groups.

The letter wasn't going down well with physicians.

Doctors balk at request for data - Los Angeles Times

 

[rexcasual]

One of the greatest challenges any national health coverage plan will have is managing care for the elderly when the "baby boom" reaches its senior years. The vast majority of people require relatively little care throughout most of their lives. We are all likely to require massive amounts of care in the last 1 to 2 years of our existence. At that point it is much more likely that a catastrophic illness (something like cancer, or a cardio-pulmonary disease) will require a much greater amount of interaction with the doctors, clinicians, surgeons, therapists and hospitals than at any other point in our life. That is when the greatest costs accrue.

Health care costs are rising faster than governments or private health insurance companies can keep up, and that is going to continue as the greatest mass of the world's population ages. It has the effect of shifting the bell curve in health care costs to unprecedented heights.

This reality has to be addressed in any management plan whether public (or as Americans tend to say - socialist ) or private (insurance companies). Medicaid covers senior citizens in the USA (correct?) and the only probable way of continuing to fund it is with a government insurance PLUS private insurance system that has the healthy citizens doing their part funding it.

The other option is inhumane misery and bankruptcy on a massive scale.

We should be known by how we care for our elderly. Unless we want to legalize and encourage euthanasia — constructing a health care system that actually works should be the goal.

 

[deleted15807]

The other option is inhumane misery and bankruptcy on a massive scale........Unless we want to legalize and encourage euthanasia — constructing a health care system that actually works should be the goal.

The neos in the US believe:

1.) You and you alone are responsible for your plight
2.) Government should not help you. Government is evil except the Defense Department.
3.) Euthanasia is against God's will. You must suffer since it is your own fault you are in that situation(see #1) be it becuase you're stupid and/or poor.

 

[alex8.5]

As someone who dual citizenship with Canada and has a OHIP ( Ontario Health Insurance Plan). I think all countries should adapt this system.

 

[rexcasual]

The neos in the US believe:

1.) You and you alone are responsible for your plight
2.) Government should not help you. Government is evil except the Defense Department.
3.) Euthanasia is against God's will. You must suffer since it is your own fault you are in that situation(see #1) be it becuase you're stupid and/or poor.

Yes, silly me, the military is the only acceptable form of socialism.

 

[rexcasual]

As someone who dual citizenship with Canada and has a OHIP ( Ontario Health Insurance Plan). I think all countries should adapt this system.

I hope you pay taxes here in Canada if you are using OHIP.:biggrin1:

 

[ninepointfive]

Here in Canada health care is a pretty normal thing and works great.. America baffles me. We have less money than you guys do and you can't even barely take care of your own people. Tsk tsk.

 

[Ethyl]

One of the greatest challenges any national health coverage plan will have is managing care for the elderly when the "baby boom" reaches its senior years. The vast majority of people require relatively little care throughout most of their lives. We are all likely to require massive amounts of care in the last 1 to 2 years of our existence. At that point it is much more likely that a catastrophic illness (something like cancer, or a cardio-pulmonary disease) will require a much greater amount of interaction with the doctors, clinicians, surgeons, therapists and hospitals than at any other point in our life. That is when the greatest costs accrue.

Health care costs are rising faster than governments or private health insurance companies can keep up, and that is going to continue as the greatest mass of the world's population ages. It has the effect of shifting the bell curve in health care costs to unprecedented heights.

This reality has to be addressed in any management plan whether public (or as Americans tend to say - socialist ) or private (insurance companies). Medicaid covers senior citizens in the USA (correct?) and the only probable way of continuing to fund it is with a government insurance PLUS private insurance system that has the healthy citizens doing their part funding it.

The other option is inhumane misery and bankruptcy on a massive scale.

We should be known by how we care for our elderly. Unless we want to legalize and encourage euthanasia — constructing a health care system that actually works should be the goal.

Unless they saved money for retirement, have family members nearby, and no real need for social security, baby boomers face a possibly grim future in the August of their lives. They're going bankrupt faster than any other generation right now. A growing majority of retirees are opting for Medicare before they hit 65. Our current health care system is not ready for the heavy influx of retirees. There aren't enough quality nursing homes, there's still a nursing shortage, and most CNA's/home health care assistants make close to minimum wage in most places so there's nothing to draw them to this field unless they love the work and don't mind being underpaid.
Geriatric care is not a popular specialty amoung med students. There's not much money to be made, providing good care isn't easy because people over 55 are often on a cocktail of prescriptions already, and may already have a few existing health problems to treat.

We won't legalise and encourage euthanasia because that would be barbaric, right? Seems much less heinous to keep the system complicated so that they fall through the cracks. At least on the surface.

 

[ninepointfive]

I wonder how many times over the cost of the war in iraq would have provided absolute universal health care to every man woman and child in America. Not ready to cure the sick but ready to go to war. Typical americans.

 

[deleted15807]

I wonder how many times over the cost of the war in iraq would have provided absolute universal health care to every man woman and child in America. Not ready to cure the sick but ready to go to war. Typical americans.

No typical...neo-con/red state American. :smile: The Borg have taken over the US government.

 

[SpeedoGuy]

Yes, silly me, the military is the only acceptable form of socialism.

Not really. Don't forget the taxpayer funded costs associated with the government subsidized bailout of automobile makers, airlines, banks, mortgage lenders, etc. Remember: Socialism is evil only when applied to everyday consumers, not the shareholders of large corporations.