Unrealistic (Great) Expectations?

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Male Bonding etc, Jan 19, 2007.

  1. Male Bonding etc

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    Americans are reviled in some parts of the world because we tend to expect our whims to be catered to. While so much of the earth’s human population is still struggling to enjoy some fraction of what we take for granted or are even struggling merely to survive, we concern ourselves with consumption of goods and services on a grotesque scale. We structure fantastic expectations for ourselves and our lives, feeling heartily disappointed when things don’t turn out just so.

    Thus, I am hesitant to post my own, possibly unrealistic, expectations because they may simply underscore how perfectly typical an American I truly am. Nonetheless, LPSG has impressed me as a forum where one can indeed share just about anything; so, here goes:

    1. I want to fall in love and marry again. That’s not so unrealistic sounding, especially since she doesn’t have to have a certain color of hair or eyes or skin, be a certain height or have a certain bra size, attend a certain church or even agree with me politically. [Though we were from different religious backgrounds, grew up in different parts of the country, and belonged to different political parties, I was completely, happily, monogamously in love with my first wife before she died, and I expect that can happen again.] However, there are some conditions to complicate things. While I wouldn’t want an “open marriage,” my wife would have to know and accept that I have had numerous partners of both genders in the past (before and after, but not during, my first marriage). She would have to want to be a parent because, through her own pregnancy, through adoption, or through surrogacy, I would want us to have several children. She would have to be a college graduate because I value educated minds… and know how to relax in social situations because I’m expected to be in those situations with some frequency… Okay, this may sound like it should be in the personals section, but my real question is not are YOU that person (but do feel free to respond if you think you are), but rather, how likely is it that I am going to find her?

    2. Until I find myself joyfully hooking up with another human for the rest of our lives, I’d like to enjoy some wholesome sexual experiences. “Fuck buddies” sounds rather crass, but maybe that’s the best way to describe it. Sex is so intensely personal an experience, particularly when I’m with a woman, that I‘ve rarely “just fucked” a woman… never in fact. They’ve all been women I’ve known and cared about, and just two have been one-fuck-only affairs. Sex with men has run the gamut from anonymous (but never faceless) servicing my dick, to several long term relationships based on servicing my needs (and not a lot in the way of me having to reciprocate). A number of the women and men claimed to be in love with me, but the only time I knew I was in love was with the woman who became my wife. If I am going to have casual sex with someone, male or female, I like for them to be damn good looking. That hasn’t been the case 100% of the time, but I’ve rarely been so horny that casual sex was the goal regardless of my partner’s appeal. So, given all of that and my desire to behave with some discretion, how likely am I to find fuck or suck buddies of either gender? How many smooth, nicely built guys who love to suck cock are there out there? Are there many intelligent and beautiful women who enjoy casual but intense sex with guys they know they won’t marry? This is not meant to be insulting to anyone, but I’m experiencing a shortage of partners and an excess of need.

    3. I want my children (when and if they arrive) to have every genetic, social, financial, and environmental advantage I can give them… not so I can spoil them or so they can dominate others, but so that they will never be dominated by others… so that they can confidently, compassionately, intelligently, thoughtfully, happily and ethically contribute to this existence. The genes I bring to the mix are pretty good, and I would hope to marry a woman whose genetic legacy is similarly strong. Most importantly, we would have to be in love with each other; but if she is athletic and smart, if the men in her family are well endowed, if her family tends to be naturally smooth (as opposed to hairy), and if she just plain looks good, not only would I enjoy being in love with her even more, I would feel we were more likely to bestow wonderful genetic gifts upon our children. Is this simply a natural parental desire, or am I being too superficial here?

    4. I want to live well past 100. Not just live, I want to continue to swim, lift weights, travel, build things, participate in politics, make love to my wife, and play with my children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren. Given the longevity of some of my ancestors and the healthy life I am trying to live, I am pretty sure I will make it to at least 100. Given the advances in medical knowledge already, not to mention what is anticipated, life expectancy for everyone should be increasing.

    5. I’d like more guy friends. Guys to hang out with, do projects with, travel with. The dynamic will depend a lot on who is married, etc., but guys don’t seem to “bond” as much as women do. [Yeah, this is where my LPSG name comes into all of this.] If one doesn’t go to bars or casinos, do recreational drugs or alcohol, watch football, eat meat (and therefore, need to barbeque), or watch porn, what are the venues for “hanging out” or even meeting other like-minded guys? It’s not that I am friendless or that I don’t meet people doing the various things I do already, it’s that I don’t really feel close to anyone outside of my family and some longtime friends (who are often very involved in their children’s needs and activities).

    So, yes, I know this has a lot to do with how I put myself out there, and I would appreciate any advice on more effectively meeting people who will share my interests. The other question remains, though: how realistic is it for me to think I can do all of the above?
     
  2. SassySpy

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    First I have to say, I think its awesome that you have that clear cut of a picture of what you want, or expect, or even hope for. At least you are then able to weed out the "No Ways"-
    I don't necessarily agree that its 'typically american'- to have expectations,be they realistic or not, is a human trait.

    on your points:

    1. Very obviously well thought out- and maybe because you were only posting your own expectations, but I noticed you didn't say what you would bring to the relationship, besides the conditions. I think they are all perfectly acceptable quantifications for a life partner- but you may find you need at least a little flexibility.:smile: And I'm really sorry about the loss of your wife. It must have been extremely difficult.
    2. Again, I agree with you for the most part- I dislike the term fuck buddies- have not had one and I'll just take care of myself till Im in a caring relationship.
    I think it sounds a bit egotistical to be so concerned with appearance, but thats just my own opinions about that sort of thing, interfering with my objective look at your post at the moment. But yes, you can find what you are seeking, I think. But you'll have to probably use personals ads to do it, unless you have a very large social network.
    3. Yes I think you are being a bit superficial. If you said this to a potential partner I should think she'd tell you to go to the egg bank. And perhaps the sperm bank too, just 'make your own child' out of the most perfect genes money can buy. Especially since even Barbie and Ken can tell you looking perfect doesn't make you so. :tongue:
    But again, personal opinion clouds my objectivity. You did mention in #1, the possibility of surrogacy, etc- so I assume you have also thought about this at length, the genetics of desired children, and you know your own genetic history well enough to know there's no "surprises around the woodpile", as my grandpa would say? I mention this because as a social worker, I know that even the seemingly genetically and psychologically and medically beautiful family, can have an abnormal baby, even today. And with unknown etiology. So be careful with those expectations, cos you would likely hurt more than just yourself.:smile:
    4. Awesome. Keep yourself fit, cos the years from 80-100 can be hell if you're in diapers and can't feed yourself anymore. Medical technology has come a great long ways, but not far enough to stop some suffering that an earlier death would have eliminated. And truly, I am saying that as nicely as I can, cos been there, done that, and all that stuff.
    5. And you SHOULD have more guy friends, if thats what you want! There's nothing wrong with that, but I can understand the dilemma of meeting people with similar values and interests. Again, I'd have to recommend places like "FriendFinder' or something- personals are really the only way to get a high volume of potential friends, lovers, etc in the shortest amount of time.

    In closing- I hope nothing I said offended you, I tried to reply as impartially as I could and still give my honest opinion of the possibilities of your achieving what you want. But it is from my point of view, so will still be skewed.

    And yes, you already know what you need to do- you already know what it is you are looking for, so you just have to 'put yourself out there' somehow-

    Good luck!!:smile:

     
  3. SomeGuyOverThere

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    I think all you really need to do to ensure that you aren't too superficial and aren't expecting too much as standard is question.

    Question yourself, your motives and your surroundings, and it appears that you have done this.

    I think you're lucky to have a clear cut idea of what you want from your life, you have found meaning and you should go for it. Personally, I still have no idea what I want from life. I have no meaning so I'm mentally messy rather than focused.
     
  4. Vestigial

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    Alas, LPSG hasn't been so kind to this lonely abomination... but I have returned with an iron plated heart. (That is the meaning of my avatar...).

    Sure, I could offer my view in life... but,.. who would dare see life through my eyes? ~.^


    I so desperately wish to show where we differ, as if trying to prove my identity through the aspirations of another,.. but,.. for now, ... I shall offer sugar instead...

    1. Reminiscence... it's a truly wonderful feeling. Just don't let the past hold you down,.. instead, let it carry you forward...
    And the possibility is high, as long as you are devoted... your standards are in common circulation and far from unreasonable. You should also note that come people who 'almost' match can be changed more readily than others (the child-like especially).

    2. Don't worry about egotism, it's a term often used by hypocrites. You know what you like, and can see that your choices are adding difficulty... if you enjoy the closed style of challenge, then sure... When I broke from asexuality and accepted interest those that people termed "ugly",.. I did *not* feel my standards lowered... no,.. I felt them raised,.. as instead of degrading myself, I raised the tormented beauty that no others dared approach.

    Yes, I am interested in my own appearance (as a functional martial artist)... for I know what others are like...
    But I do not want to flaunt the victory grin without the hand to match it...
    Instead, I want looks that can kill, and a body that can thrust them through the depths of the afterlife... ~.^

    Nothing wrong with fuck buddies, especially when you find quality and meaning in such a pleasurable art... To me, making love seems a contradiction, whereas fuck buddies is merely harsh. :D (buddies... with benefits!)

    3. Natural selection. 99% of counter-arguments may now jump out the nearest window. And if you were to make compromise,... smoothness is easily waxed. The greatest gift you can present them, though... is themselves. (part of A Cruel Ego's Thesis: For without you, the world as you know it would not exist.)

    4. Stay open to the possibility, and young at heart... I have wished to transcend mortality since childhood... but as of yet, all I can do is reverse genetic aging. I've not discarded my childhood, it is still a part of me,.. I can still achieve my dreams.

    5. I too share this aspiration. I am so hyper energetic, so chaotically inclined... I could be doing anything at any given moment, and it's made association a dicey situation.

    I was there too, with not feeling close to new people... but now, hmm...

    Well, I would love to associate too... sports venues such a rock climbing, tournaments, boxing rings, group walks / hikes, music, arts, even geeky things like dungeons and dragons / star trek conventions / magic the gathering, if you are so inclined.

    We should find places of interest and just bite the bullet.
     
  5. Vestigial

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    I have meaning... but, in the depths of chaos... anything seems possible.

    I've decided to evolve and let the chips fall where they may.
     
  6. Male Bonding etc

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    Spy, Guy, and V-

    Thank you all for your thoughtful comments.

    I do know how to behave appropriately... I truly am someone who is above (or beyond) superficial appearance oriented stuff most of the time, but this was something like a secret journal entry: feelings and questions that were there, but I needed to share them with someone somehow.

    I will read what you each had to say again, and think about how it helps me move forward.

    Male
     
  7. Male Bonding etc

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    Ain't it so egocentrically appropriate that my one hundredth post shall be about myself! Spy, Some and V put so much kind thought into their responses, I felt I should respond to their points, SassySpy first:


    I think its awesome that you have that clear cut of a picture of what you want, or expect, or even hope for. At least you are then able to weed out the "No Ways"-
    I don't necessarily agree that its 'typically american'- to have expectations,be they realistic or not, is a human trait.

    Thanks, and yes, but you have to admit we Yanks tend to be able (or expect to be able) to indulge more of our expectations than much of the rest of the world. I would like to do what I can NOT to be just another "ugly American."

    I noticed you didn't say what you would bring to the relationship, besides the conditions. I think they are all perfectly acceptable quantifications for a life partner- but you may find you need at least a little flexibility.:smile: And I'm really sorry about the loss of your wife. It must have been extremely difficult.

    Yes, it was difficult, and thanks.
    Because it really would have sounded like a misplaced personal ad I decided not to include what I would bring to the relationship . Also, I do get told many complimentary things about myself, and I know I am very capable in a number of areas, but I think some modesty is a more attractive trait than excessive boasting. I am quite flexible, quite thoughtful, diplomatic, compassionate... I guess the reason I put the question to a public thread was because I felt these weren't just MY expectations, but that they might be common among others here.


    I dislike the term fuck buddies- have not had one and I'll just take care of myself till Im in a caring relationship.

    I tend to agree, but damn if there aren't times when I don't want to have my needs served by someone with little in the way of emotional ties and a whole lot in the way of talent!

    I think it sounds a bit egotistical to be so concerned with appearance,

    I absolutely agree. However, it is also very honest. I can be PC and diplomatic and altruistic in person... and in my heart... but there's also a part of me that wants to say, "Attractive people turn me on more," and I can say that here where no one really knows who I am. I will say that I lost track of how beautiful other people thought my wife was once I fell in love with her: all that mattered to me was that she was the person I loved, and that made her beautiful beyond words.

    I think you are being a bit superficial. If you said this to a potential partner I should think she'd tell you to go to the egg bank. And perhaps the sperm bank too, just 'make your own child' out of the most perfect genes money can buy.

    Well, that response helps me a lot, seriously. I pretty much suspected that it would be a no-no to go into that stuff with my mate, but once again, here is the opportunity to say what dare not be said in the "real world." I'd love for my child to have the best that human genes can provide, but I far from ready to try to engineer the "perfect" child.

    the years from 80-100 can be hell if you're in diapers and can't feed yourself anymore. Medical technology has come a great long ways, but not far enough to stop some suffering that an earlier death would have eliminated.

    Yes, I've seen enough to know I don't want to be one of those elderly folks! Still, I think planning on living a long healthy life helps one make choices that reduce the likelihood of that happening.

    you SHOULD have more guy friends, if thats what you want! There's nothing wrong with that, but I can understand the dilemma of meeting people with similar values and interests. Again, I'd have to recommend places like "FriendFinder' or something- personals are really the only way to get a high volume of potential friends, lovers, etc in the shortest amount of time.

    I guess you have a good point here. My past experience was more along the lines of having too many potential friends and lovers and, thus, trying to block the "no ways" and "probably nots" so that I could focus on the "let's see where this goes" situations. The older I get the more I realize that the "right" ones can come from unexpected directions, but I also am still having to fend off the "no ways," just not as many of them. Personals seem like the choice of someone more desperate than I am, but that may be a misconception on my part.

    I hope nothing I said offended you, I tried to reply as impartially as I could and still give my honest opinion of the possibilities of your achieving what you want. But it is from my point of view, so will still be skewed.

    Nope, you didn't offend me at all. I thank you for your most kind and thoughtful post. It was helpful to me, and I hope it has offered some things to be considered by others here as well.
     
  8. Male Bonding etc

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    Something my grandfather was fond of telling me was that, regardless of what he PLANNED, the most significant turns and opportunities in his life came from things that were unplanned. It's like you can't sit around and wait for the unplanned stuff to happen; so, you plan... Nonetheless, when opportunity knocks, one does sometimes have to be willing to throw over one's plans to take advantage of the unplanned for (or to recover from it!).

    "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness"

    Thanks to Thomas! Those words from the United States' Declaration of Independence have always rung as true beacons of what feels right to me... Of course it helps that my life, and my liberty and my pursuits of happiness usually do not include things that harm others (at least not in conscious ways). In fact much of what makes me happy does make others happy also, and what improves my life and expands my liberty tends to do the same for others.

    [That's not to say that others are happy because I am happy (although that does happen), but rather that the same things work for me that work for others, and likewise for life and liberty.]

    Regarding haggis, I am happy to say I am vegetarian!

    Thanks again, Guy.
     
  9. Male Bonding etc

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    Ah, Vestigial, knowing how best to respond to your writing is always so difficult, but I feel your heart was speaking here... and I appreciate it.

    1. Reminiscence... it's a truly wonderful feeling. Just don't let the past hold you down,.. instead, let it carry you forward...
    And the possibility is high, as long as you are devoted... your standards are in common circulation and far from unreasonable. You should also note that come people who 'almost' match can be changed more readily than others (the child-like especially).

    This is straightforward and on the mark regarding reminiscence, thanks.

    Yes, the "almost" matches are where being flexible comes in because it is far safer to know that I can change than to expect someone else to change. I do know that I have an influence, and I do know that the "child-like" are more open perhaps to changing. Nonetheless, it is not in my character to take advantage of someone else's moldability to satisfy my own ends.

    2. Don't worry about egotism, it's a term often used by hypocrites. You know what you like, and can see that your choices are adding difficulty... if you enjoy the closed style of challenge, then sure... When I broke from asexuality and accepted interest those that people termed "ugly",.. I did *not* feel my standards lowered... no,.. I felt them raised,.. as instead of degrading myself, I raised the tormented beauty that no others dared approach.

    You are a better man than I. No matter how hard I have tried to be above caring about appearance, I have always come back to an awareness of what turns me on does have a huge visual/physical component. Being in love, really in love, does lift one beyond that concern, but I haven't been in love that often.

    Yes, I am interested in my own appearance (as a functional martial artist)... for I know what others are like...
    But I do not want to flaunt the victory grin without the hand to match it...
    Instead, I want looks that can kill, and a body that can thrust them through the depths of the afterlife... ~.^

    Here's the Vestigial type of comment that starts to rattle people's sensibilities. Are you a flesh and blood martial artist, or do you hone your skills while at a video game console? Are your "looks that can kill" simply a common phrase, or do you allude to special skills? Is your "body that can thrust them through the depths of the afterlife" merely a reference to the propensity for using massively built men in violent roles, or a thinly veiled assertion of your killing abilities?

    I do like it when looks cause the heart to skip a beat and bodies appear capable of great feats of strength. My preference, though, is for those looks and bodies to be used constructively and peacefully.

    Nothing wrong with fuck buddies, especially when you find quality and meaning in such a pleasurable art... To me, making love seems a contradiction, whereas fuck buddies is merely harsh. :D (buddies... with benefits!)

    This may be hard for those who have never actually been in love to understand, but I think the distinction between "making love" and "fucking" is that one has everything to do with weaving love into the act and thus making both better, while the other is about physically having sex... love may or may not be involved. The phrase and the word often are used interchangeably, but they elicit different responses from me. "Making" love may be contradictory or inaccurate, but it's easier to say than "augmenting love" or "spiraling love and sex into something way beyond what they were each on their own."

    "Buddies with benefits" is exactly what I would enjoy if I could truly believe they weren't expecting more from me.

    3. Natural selection. 99% of counter-arguments may now jump out the nearest window. And if you were to make compromise,... smoothness is easily waxed. The greatest gift you can present them, though... is themselves. (part of A Cruel Ego's Thesis: For without you, the world as you know it would not exist.)

    Yes, I was merely being an armchair genetic engineer. So much more goes into being human.

    4. Stay open to the possibility, and young at heart... I have wished to transcend mortality since childhood... but as of yet, all I can do is reverse genetic aging. I've not discarded my childhood, it is still a part of me,.. I can still achieve my dreams.

    Another yes... but please do expand on the reversal of genetic aging.

    5. I was there too, with not feeling close to new people... but now, hmm...
    We should find places of interest and just bite the bullet.

    Indeed, I have known and been told that in pursuing our own interests we are more likely to find others whose interests are similar to our own.

    Unfortunately, it is all too easy to pursue solitary interests.

    Then pursuing more social interests can be complicated by the all too often presence of people who are certain this one interest makes us compatible. I do enjoy people and can associate and be friendly with people who do not interest me sexually or at a deeply personal level at all...

    Being "out there" exposes me to all that others want of me. I have sometimes found it overwhelming. Then the solitary existance regains its appeal.
     
  10. chicagosam

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    I like your goals. I wish you well in achieving them. Sam
     
  11. Male Bonding etc

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    Sam, thanks.
     
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