Upset at American 'Morals'

Discussion in 'Underwear, Clothing, and Appearance Issues' started by systemshock3, Jan 5, 2007.

  1. systemshock3

    systemshock3 Member

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    So, I am coming up on the one year anniversary of my trip to Australia. Its not just that I would LOVE to live there...but the fact that I have, more and more, been bumping up against our rather Puritanical sexual mores lately.

    I will be honest: I love Nudism, exhibitionism, and voyuerism. I do NOT work my ass off 5 days per week in the gym for this body just to cover it up with poorly fitted clothes out of some bizzare sense of 'modesty'.

    So, being in TX, I head to a local 'video' theatre. What happens? Everyone walks around covering themselves watching the various porns because they are afraid of the undercover vice cops. To be fair, the theatre posts all 4 of the Texan Penal codes that you could be arrested for even jerking off in the theatre...that you PAID to get into. Our alternative is to go to either of our rather overpriced bathouses...which honestly have become dens of drug use and, as my late grandfather would say 'catching things you cant wash off'.

    I contrast this with my time in Sydney, where nude beaches were plentiful, it was still okay for a man to wear a speedo ('COssie' to them.. :) ), and their porn theatres and bathouses were not the sad places of shame and subterfuge from the police.

    From what I have been told from friends who have visited Amsterdam, Paris, Berlin, Bacelona, and various parts of Italy...they are even further ahead as far as what is allowed and what isnt. Nude sunbathing? No problem if its in a designated area. Nude Beaches? All over the place along the coasts. Special mention goes to Paris, Amsterdam and Berlin, where sex is considered a social, fun experience.

    I read an interesting article over on MSNBC.com in which a researcher came to the conclusion after his nationwide interviews that :"Americans are interesting...Everyone is experimenting and really could care less what others do....but they dont want to talk about it or want anyone else to know".

    And people wonder why I am steering my career to enable overseas travel? The above.

    Oh, and about tonight? Well, I came home without getting off, so I am now off to 'resolve' that little problem before bed. I have meetings all day tommorow :cool:.

    For our memebers from Europe, please tell me if any of what I have been told is off the mark?
     
  2. Elmer Gantry

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    Sydney or Melbourne fit that bill. Although Melbourne doesn't have as warm weather as Sydney which puts a dampener on the nude outdoors bit for half the year. Sydney also has a very open sexuality about it even outside of Mardi Gras time and is definitely the gay capital of the country. Brisvegas is becoming looser as well. I'm not saying that the other cities are backward but they aren't quite as open as the first two.

    You'd do well in Sydney!

    I find most (yes, I'll generalise) Americans to be very puritanical in outlook. So much so that I find I have to tone downmy good old Aussie sense of humour by a factor of ten when talking ot most of them.

    Could it be the difference in origin of the two countries? Could it be that the USA was founded by religious exiles hell bent on creating a new world for them to bother god in while Australia was founded by drunk Royal Marines, thieves and prostitutes?
     
  3. Lordpendragon

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    I think that you are pretty much right about Europe. The catholic countries are a little bit more uptight, but not a lot and mainly the older people.

    An English couple got arrested for shagging on a beach recently in Greece, but I don't think they got charged - the people who were watching that is :smile:
     
  4. Hunkguy39

    Hunkguy39 New Member

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    hEHE yeah i heard about it on the news, the only problem is that there were children watching them too man,thats why they got arrested.
    i had sex in the beach too many many times and never has a problem with the police.
    Last summer i was in Kerkira(corfy) and returning to my hotel at night i saw a young british lassy getting fucked by three guys in the midlle of the street.

    We have 15000klm of see coast and over 1012 ilsands and more than 600 organized nudist reasorts.
    Its well known what british lads do during summers in Rodes. Exposine their asses to everyone in Faliraki beach
    As for Amsterdam and Berlin i would say they are the capitols of sexual fredom i ve been to both and believe me man Viagra is a "must" if you want to be able to walk after a weekend in the sex clubs.
     
  5. Lordpendragon

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    No disrespect to my German friends, but I think the Netherlands is the place for sexual freedom, well probably all types of freedom. Not a place for the puritanically minded. :wink:
     
  6. incher2

    incher2 New Member

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    Yes, Americans are very uptight about sexuality. I am quite conservative, and fundamental in my believes, however despite this I can see that we are very uptight as a nation.

    Even when considering sex within the framework of what a person believes to be "moral" or "right" the average American is uptight regardless of where on the continuum between "conservative or traditional" and "liberal and modern" they are. Husbands and wives do not communicate freely and honestly so as to improve this important part of their relationship. Singles are not up front about birth control and safe sex options, and make preparations in advance.

    Young folks, especially girls do not admit even to themselves that they intend to engage in sex in advance. We have a wierd social constuct that says it is less naughty and more romantic if we are wishy washy and have sex in the heat of the moment. For this reason we have more unwanted teen pregnancies, and higher rates of many STD's than European countries that are far less puritanical.

    We argue about sex education when we should simply be teaching about human body function and reproduction in biology, phys ed, and health courses. We argue about teaching various morality, when there is no morality in biology and nature. People have been figuring out the how tos of sex for, well , at least a few generations now without sex ed courses, we just need to teach the science, and from a young age.

    Why have we not had ad council ads about HPV prior to the vaccination being available. BEcause this is a sex topic that is why. Now that it is about money, someone is paying for the ads.
     
  7. BigA

    BigA New Member

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    i don't necessairly know that it's american morals that are behind the times. I went to a peep show recently with my friend a self-made wealthy man who paid our entrance. He came all over the glass between her and us, which i found disgusting, wheras I rubbed it into my hands. Some dude came after and must have cleaned it off the glass. Point being, I thought that behavior was disgusting, but it seemed acceptable at that venue
     
  8. dikkiedik

    dikkiedik Member

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    Finally a thread about this! Often I have tried to understand why de difference between US and Europe is this big. I live in the Netherlands. Here is much more freedom, but it starts with the openminded society. Sexuality is an important part of life. I believe God didn't mean us to be so prude and puritane.
     
  9. B_big dirigible

    B_big dirigible New Member

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    Wouldn't it be simpler to just move out of Texas? It's not exactly the Libertine Capital of the USA.
     
  10. Lex

    Lex
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    My thoughts exactly.

    Stop the Presses!! :wink:
     
  11. Chicago_Swimmer

    Chicago_Swimmer New Member

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    I would like to offer my own perspective on this question. My wife is English and I have spent some time in other parts of the world observing different cultures. I think I may have a handle on the American sexuality question.

    True, there is a strong religious undertoe in America though it is not accociated with a particular religion. You will find a number of "very serious" protestants, catholics and jews in America. Much of our early history is rooted in fervent religiosity. We may not think our modern American society has any real connection with the religious colonies of the 17th century, but the perspectives of one's parents are passed on. So even though we are many generations seprated from the 17th century American protestants we still have their perspectives, though perhaps watered down, when we consider our own political philosophies. I believe there is an additional component to America's conservative sexuality that people don't often consider.

    Do we all agree that act of sex is personal and intimate? If so, then we must also consider America's wide spectrum of immigrant populations into this query. The act of sex is the same no matter where you are in the world. However, its importance and what makes sex important varies in different socities/cultures. America is made up of a bunch of cultural strangers. How does one act around a bunch of strangers? Very reserved.

    As an example of this, consider the idea of a greeting. In Germany, Germans know what to expect when one greets another. There is an understood protocal. In America, we are not so sure. Whose immigrant society's protocal do we adhere to? Should we shake their hand? Do they expect a hug, a kiss on the cheek? American's expect different things. Being of German and Dutch descent I am inclined to be more formal and reserved in behavior, but I know that other Americans from different orginating countries would find this alien. This is also an important component to American sexuality. We are unsure of what to expect. How does the other person view sex, what's it's level importance. Again, if we agree that the act of sex is a very personal, then if we are unsure what to expect from the other, either in protocal or perspective, then we are bound to be reserved and shy. This individual reservedness eventually gets passed on into laws and regulations.

    Americans are reserved/insecure about sex and there are a variety of reasons for it. I'm not sure it is, as some people are indicating, something Americans should just "get over". Our long and varied religious background and more importantly our varied immigrant populations with their varied cultural mores will always make Americans a little unsure of how to deal with sex. Therefore, we will always be reserved in our sexuality.

    Ooops! Sorry, I didn't mean to make this into a treatise.

    Robert
     
  12. LambHair McNeil

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    If diversity truly rocks, then why not appreciate the diversity in the world as a whole and realise that it may not be possible to have each and every country be a mirror image of that totalistic view of diversity?
     
  13. viking1

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    This post by incher2 pretty well sums up my view on this.

    Chicago_Swimmer has some good points too. I do think we here in the US
    are too up tight and that attitude has beem passed down through the years. It is very difficult to find an open and intelligent conversation on
    sexuality in real life in this country. Only the Internet seems to provied that here. That is very sad in my opinion.
     
  14. viking1

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    Exactly. I don't expect those from other countries to know, understand, and
    follow my cultural traditions just to please me. Why should I be expected to do that for immigrants to my country? I don't want to do things to intentionally alienate those from other cultures, but reasonable slack is in order. There is too much of this "politically correct" crap these days.
     
  15. polarbear

    polarbear Member

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    I find it fascinating that Europeans and Americans chat back and forth about what 'rights and freedoms' actually mean.

    But, Americans, just look north to Canada; a bit of the Old World-- with their liberal values-- in the New World.

    Sure, we're 1/10 the size of the USA, but we have rights and freedoms that most Americans will never see. Legalised pot for medical use (the government grows it in a hothouse in Manitoba); same-sex marriage in every province and territory; and absolutely no hang-ups about nudity, sexuality and mature themes. Hell, we can even drink as young as 18! Yes, we can vote AND drink, let alone drive, and not need to worry if a 'blow job' is against the law... not since 1969, at least. Lest we forget our universal health care.

    Come on politicians in America, get with it! Your citizens deserve it.

    After all, we are 'Children of a common mother; Brethren dwelling together" [Peace Arch Crossing, Douglas BC/Blaine WA]

    xo
     
  16. viking1

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    Another good example of the difference in our societies.
     
  17. Shelby

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    In Texas' capital city, Austin, the most popular public swimming area is tops optional. Just outside of Austin on the shores of Lake Travis is Hippie Hollow.

    I'm sure Massachusetts has clothing optional areas of its own but I doubt they are as thoroughly integrated into the local culture as are these two places in Texas.
     
  18. baseball99

    baseball99 New Member

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    I am wondering why some major insurance companies in canada pay for medical treatment in the US if the universal healthcare is so good? I also wonder why multitudes of canadian doctors take the licensing exams in the US and work here? As far as I know, canada's universal healthcare is nothing to brag about. Anyways, thats another topic

    also, i think for every complaint about america there is an equivalent complaint about another country......remember the saying "the grass is always greener" :rolleyes:
     
  19. DC_DEEP

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    I'm sure that every country has its own positives and negatives, some have more of one than of the other. But other countries aren't my concern, really.

    And I really do not care what morals and values any individual chooses for himself, I just resent him attempting to choose them for me. I would not be able to figure out the puritanical point of view if I thought it would save my life to do so.

    The puritanical view: I think oral sex is wrong; therefore, no one, not even consenting adults, should be able to engage in oral sex, not even in the privacy of their own homes.

    My view: If I think oral sex is wrong, then I will not engage in oral sex.

    The puritanical view: It says so in my bible, so you will be held accountable to my bible's canon.

    My view: If you believe in that canon, then by all means you should follow it. Do not expect me to.

    Most of the evangelical types have what I consider a warped sense of ethics and morality. They claim I trample their rights, if I don't acknowledge their "right" to force me to go to church. They don't realize that I have as much of a right to freedom from religion, as they do a right to practice religion.

    Systemshock3, please don't lump all of us into that category. We don't all belong there.
     
  20. Sergeant_Torpedo

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    There is a difference between being a moralist and a moraliste (in the French meaning of the word) and I believe in freedom of speech and expression but for those who think this means you can offend the sensibilities of others then you are wrong. There is a certain smugness about libertarians - alright, shagging on a Greek beach might sound amusing, however would you want the same couple shagging on your front lawn in sight of your kids. Being adult means being aware that actions have consequences. Be brave enough to accept your resposibilities and stop complaining about trivialities.
     
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