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US Credit Rating Downgraded by S&P

B_VinylBoy

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Is it certain that S&P did it? I heard that FOX News and George Bush did it.

Your partisan sarcasm misses the mark, especially since many people have concluded that the reason why our rating was downgraded had to do with the fiasco that was the debt ceiling debate and how fundamentally broken our current Congress is. But whatever... go ahead and think everyone is just trying to kick your favorite news station and president in the teeth. It's a very typical stance around here, albeit an intellectually boring one.
 

conntom

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Maybe this is what the GOP needs- a kick in the pants from their corporate masters

And maybe it means the end of all the free hand out to:

1. The lazy
2. The "depressed"
3. Illegals - particularly those who are taught where to go and what to say to get all the free money from the US.
4. Other nations
5. Pork
6. Waste in gov't spending (stupid long over due for an end wars, military waste and stupid studies about things like the mating rituals of the green livered pollups during odd years.


But no no, lets find a way to put this solely on republicans.


This problems was created by the repubs AND the democrats and if we go blame pie style, the Democrats get 3 big pieces or about 75% of you whom have a hard time with math.
 
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the reasoning behind it is a good warning but yet totally unjustified in downgrading (stalemate in Congress). Yet, you guys have the gall to blame republicans for making an issue out of the fact we are definetely spending too much money as a government? I am sorry the republicans did not bluelight the debt ceiling.
 
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But the fact remains, most money we owe is to ourselves and we should get behind Ron Paul's introduces legislation to tell the fed, who we owe 1.6 trillion, to stick it where the sun does not shine and tell them "we are not paying you back."
 

sargon20

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Tisk. Socialist Canada and France now have better credit ratings. But hey Reagan proved 'deficits don't matter'.
 

TomCat84

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I dont think some of the above Republican posters have actually read what the downgrade articles are saying. S+P is saying that the debt deal didn't go far enough, in that the cuts werent big enough, and also citing the GOP's refusal to raise taxes/revenue. This is SOLELY due to the Republican Party and their steadfast unwillingness to compromise. The Democrats were always willing to compromise. And no sane person has suggested we don't have a spending problem, so please dont try to obfuscate the issues and equivocate.
 

lurker37160

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Word up ! :biggrin1:

And maybe it means the end of all the free hand out to:

1. The lazy
2. The "depressed"
3. Illegals - particularly those who are taught where to go and what to say to get all the free money from the US.
4. Other nations
5. Pork
6. Waste in gov't spending (stupid long over due for an end wars, military waste and stupid studies about things like the mating rituals of the green livered pollups during odd years.


But no no, lets find a way to put this solely on republicans.


This problems was created by the repubs AND the democrats and if we go blame pie style, the Democrats get 3 big pieces or about 75% of you whom have a hard time with math.
 

Mensch1351

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Blame the Republicans????? Just WHEN have the Republicans EVER put the blame on themselves for anything? ---- Oh --- wait a minute! I think I DO remember the Republicans actually saying that the 6 years under Bush they had both Houses of Congress they did sort of lose their way in possessing a sense of fiscal responsibility!! And specifically, WHICH Republican spending bills did George Bush veto???? Hmmmmm!

If you check any accurate historical chart you'll see that the deficits have risen under Republican Presidents more times than under the Democrats! And let's also remember those 2 scandals: Savings and Loan & Enron!! hmmmmm again!
 
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Both of them are crooks. I wanted taxes increased. In fact, we need to pull the hell out of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Yemen and as none of this had war declared, Obama could do that tomorrow.

Anyways, one of the biggest increases to our deficit is simply medicaid and medicare. Spiraling medical costs, yet Democrats are steadfast about not reforming the system. We need to go to what Texas does: If someone presses a frivolous lawsuit and loses, they have to pay the person they sued and court costs. They have judges twiddling there thumbs with nothing to do down there. It will help drive costs down. And, we need to stop subsidizing 90-year old grandma who is being kept alive by 50,000 dollars a day to possibly live a month longer. But I digress.

In the long run, does not matter. We are all screwed anyways.
 

sargon20

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Yet, you guys have the gall to blame republicans for making an issue out of the fact we are definitely spending too much money as a government? I am sorry the republicans did not bluelight the debt ceiling.

OH please the Republicans ROUTINELY raised the ceiling for Bush's tax cuts and his 'free wars'. It was Bush that contributed two-thirds of the deficit. And it's the BUDGET that is the tool to control debt which the Republicans approved not the cieling.

This is what America gets for believing tax cuts and wars are free.


.....the “debt limit does not limit the debt.” It’s an illusion of a law, instituted in World War I, to persuade gullible taxpayers that Congress is exercising responsible oversight over borrowing. Congress already controls spending and taxation, and if it wants a smaller debt it can cut spending or raise taxes at will. To allow the deficit to rise, and then refuse to pay for it months later, is the definition of financial irresponsibility.
 
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B_VinylBoy

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And maybe it means the end of all the free hand out to:

1. The lazy
2. The "depressed"
3. Illegals - particularly those who are taught where to go and what to say to get all the free money from the US.
4. Other nations
5. Pork
6. Waste in gov't spending (stupid long over due for an end wars, military waste and stupid studies about things like the mating rituals of the green livered pollups during odd years.

You need to be more specific about "wasteful spending". Medicare, Medicaid, Welfare and Social Security are not since the mass majority of that money is actually spent by its recipients, therefore creating demand and stimulating the economy. They don't hoard it away because their life depends on that money, unlike the super wealthy who have no incentives to create any reasonable jobs whatsoever despite all of the tax cuts they've been given.

And check this out if we all want to see where all of this "free money" the supposed "illegals" are taking from America. Immigration may be a problem, but it's certainly not THE problem when it comes to the economy - http://current.com/shows/vanguard/episodes/season-five/this-illegal-american-life/

But no no, lets find a way to put this solely on republicans.

Let's not and try to really focus on the problem for once? :rolleyes:

This problems was created by the repubs AND the democrats and if we go blame pie style, the Democrats get 3 big pieces or about 75% of you whom have a hard time with math.

So much for not trying to put more of the blame on a particular party.
But to be clear, more than $9 Trillion of the $14.3 Trillion deficit (or roughly 63%) was accumulated under Republican rule, with George W. Bush responsible for more than $6 Trillion of it through tax cuts for the wealthy and two wars. This is reflected by the US Treasury in a headlining story released by the Boston Globe last Sunday. Obama's contribution to the debt at this time, according to the same statistics, is at $2.4 Trillion. Much of which is tied to the stimulus that many people now say needed to be bigger. Alas, the opposition thought this was wasteful spending as well.

This is the third time I've mentioned this and yet not a single refute by anyone. Care to challenge the math of the US Treasury?
 
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Thedrewbert

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We got downgraded because we didn't cut enough and we didn't raise taxes.

We're not broke, we are just unwilling to set our tax rate to match our spending rate. If we really set spending to match what we are taking in and didn't increase taxes there would be rioting in the streets (like in Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece, and France).

People will find out quickly that they actually LIKE services like fast highways and (fairly) safe Air Traffic Control, and Medicare for Grandma.

All of these cuts are just going to push us BACK into recession and end up causing a bigger deficit down the line. GDP last quarter was already a 0.2 percent. These cuts alone are enough to push that negative as businesses cut back to prepare for less government spending.
 

FRE

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Both of them are crooks. I wanted taxes increased. In fact, we need to pull the hell out of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Yemen and as none of this had war declared, Obama could do that tomorrow.

Anyways, one of the biggest increases to our deficit is simply medicaid and medicare. Spiraling medical costs, yet Democrats are steadfast about not reforming the system. We need to go to what Texas does: If someone presses a frivolous lawsuit and loses, they have to pay the person they sued and court costs. They have judges twiddling there thumbs with nothing to do down there. It will help drive costs down. And, we need to stop subsidizing 90-year old grandma who is being kept alive by 50,000 dollars a day to possibly live a month longer. But I digress.

In the long run, does not matter. We are all screwed anyways.

Let us take a look at Medicare.

One of the costs of Medicare is providing medications. Under the administration of George II, Medicare, unlike the Veterans Administration, was prohibited from bargaining with drug manufacturers to get the lowest possible prices for drugs. Instead, Medicare is required to pay the asking price for drugs. As a result, Medicare pays a much higher price for drugs than the Veterans Administration does.

Have the Democrats taken a stand against permitting Medicare to bargain with the drug manufacturers to get the lowest possible price for drugs?
 
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The problem is, most of the repubs in congress are neo-con, corporate BS. I support the republican party of William F. Buckley and Barry Goldwater (except the nuke part). The cause for what the tea party railed against in this debate is noble but the reasonings were BS.
 

RideRocket

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It blows my mind to constantly and consistently see this "Republicans v. Democrats' argument. Can't you see that they are all corrupt? That our government is completely misguided? That our government does not truly represent the people to whom they are supposed to represent?

I personally believe that we as a people need to hold our elected representatives more accountable. If that measn term limits on all members of Congress, so be it. If that implies, revolution, so be it.
 

TomCat84

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It blows my mind to constantly and consistently see this "Republicans v. Democrats' argument. Can't you see that they are all corrupt? That our government is completely misguided? That our government does not truly represent the people to whom they are supposed to represent?

I personally believe that we as a people need to hold our elected representatives more accountable. If that measn term limits on all members of Congress, so be it. If that implies, revolution, so be it.

The Democrats are corrupt for going along with this charade.
 

RideRocket

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The Democrats are corrupt for going along with this charade.

Again I say it's not a Democrat v. Republican issue. It's a "our country is at stake" issue. Our politicians are corrupt. They don't have the general populace's interest at heart anymore. They are more concerned about "what's right for them" versus what's right for my constituent's. Personally, I say, kick all of them out of office and start over. Say what you will about the Tea Party, but I understand where they are coming from. They are fed up with our current corrupt ineffecient form of government that has become self-serving and inept. They want change, albeit in the form of their perspective. However, I agree with their premise of wanting change.
 
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We got downgraded because we didn't cut enough and we didn't raise taxes.
Bullshit. You would have to raise taxes 66% to make a dent in this debt scenario. Good luck passing a 66% tax increase. The downgrade occurred because there weren't sufficent spending cuts. The handouts are in full force.

We're not broke, we are just unwilling to set our tax rate to match our spending rate. If we really set spending to match what we are taking in and didn't increase taxes there would be rioting in the streets (like in Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece, and France).

Laughable. Entitlements are 100% of our tax receipts. 2.2 trillion in tax receipts and 2.2 trillion in entitlements. 60% of our spending is on entitlements. So you would need a 66% tax increase to offset spending. Good luck.

People will find out quickly that they actually LIKE services like fast highways and (fairly) safe Air Traffic Control, and Medicare for Grandma

Highways and air traffic control aren't even a rounding error in this budget.

All of these cuts are just going to push us BACK into recession and end up causing a bigger deficit down the line. GDP last quarter was already a 0.2 percent. These cuts alone are enough to push that negative as businesses cut back to prepare for less government spending

You're right. Just keep taking away from one group, and giving to another until the U.S. turns into Greece.
 

FRE

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It blows my mind to constantly and consistently see this "Republicans v. Democrats' argument. Can't you see that they are all corrupt? That our government is completely misguided? That our government does not truly represent the people to whom they are supposed to represent?

I personally believe that we as a people need to hold our elected representatives more accountable. If that measn term limits on all members of Congress, so be it. If that implies, revolution, so be it.

If all the politicians are corrupt, it is the fault of the voters for refusing to elect honest politicians. Politicians who tell voters the truth are not elected. To be elected, politicians have to tell voters what the voters want to hear, regardless of whether it is true.

It might help if our school system had really good civics classes to instruct students on how our government is supposed to function and what citizens' responsibilities are. As it is, the majority of people are shockingly ignorant about such matters.
 
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This entire scenario is so incredibly simple, yet we continue to push and shove and allow politics to govern math.

We have a relatively small percentage of our population that produces things and pay into a pot (taxes/U.S. treasury.) We have a large percentage of people who produce nothing, do not pay into the pot, and take out of the pot. This part of the population is growing exponentially.

The pot is running dry. The pot has been downgraded.

There isn't much more to discuss.
 

FRE

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And who routinely 'rehires' them on election day? When you have selfish ignorant voters you get selfish ignorant politicians.


Fuck Hope

Right. Obviously that means that those of us who carefully study the issues and would like to vote for honest politicians have to suffer because of the selfishness and ignorance of a majority of the voters.

Things could be worse. During the Gilded Age, when the Robber Barons flourished, company lobbyists actual went to legislative chambers (both state and federal) with suit cases full of money, sometimes even $500,000 and more, to bribe politicians. The techniques they use now are somewhat less egregious. Now they fill the airwaves with disinformation to sway voters and find ways to channel huge sums into political campaign funds.

It has been more than amply demonstrated that spending huge sums on political campaigns greatly influences the results. That is because the public is swayed by endless repetition. If the public were not swayed by endless repetition but rather by knowledge and good sense, there would be no advantage in spending huge sums on campaigns and corporation influence would be markedly reduced.
 

RideRocket

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And who routinely 'rehires' them on election day? When you have selfish ignorant voters you get selfish ignorant politicians.


Fuck Hope

Yes and No. To not give a shit though leads us down the road to where we are today.

If all the politicians are corrupt, it is the fault of the voters for refusing to elect honest politicians. Politicians who tell voters the truth are not elected. To be elected, politicians have to tell voters what the voters want to hear, regardless of whether it is true.

It might help if our school system had really good civics classes to instruct students on how our government is supposed to function and what citizens' responsibilities are. As it is, the majority of people are shockingly ignorant about such matters.

So true. It is 'we the people' (to borrow a phrase) that need to step up and put our heads in the game. We need to be involved about things that truly matter - global economics, global warming, etc.; not what is going on on "The Hills" or "Jersey Shore". How pathetic. We need to live with a purpose.
 
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FRE

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This entire scenario is so incredibly simple, yet we continue to push and shove and allow politics to govern math.

We have a relatively small percentage of our population that produces things and pay into a pot (taxes/U.S. treasury.) We have a large percentage of people who produce nothing, do not pay into the pot, and take out of the pot. This part of the population is growing exponentially.

The pot is running dry. The pot has been downgraded.

There isn't much more to discuss.

I don't quite understand. During the Clinton administration, we actually had budget surpluses. The huge budget deficits occurred during the administration of George II. What happened during the administration of George II to cause the "percentage of people who produce nothing" to increase so drastically during his administration? And why aren't the large tax reductions a part of the problem? Perhaps you could help me to understand this.
 
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I don't quite understand. During the Clinton administration, we actually had budget surpluses. The huge budget deficits occurred during the administration of George II. What happened during the administration of George II to cause the "percentage of people who produce nothing" to increase so drastically during his administration? And why aren't the large tax reductions a part of the problem? Perhaps you could help me to understand this.

Glad to oblige:

1. George II was an idiot. 2nd worst president in the last 100 years.
2. Unfortunately, 9/11 occurred in his first term. That froze the economy (tax receipts) and was a catalyst for defense spending.
3. Clinton was president during the most robust 8 years in American history with the technology boom and huge tax revenues. No wars.
4. Obama is the 1st worst president in the last 100 years.
5. Spending is the problem, not taxes. If everyone chipped in 5% of what they were given, we would have no problems. Too many people (over 50% of Americans) pay 0 taxes.
 

sargon20

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Right. Obviously that means that those of us who carefully study the issues and would like to vote for honest politicians have to suffer because of the selfishness and ignorance of a majority of the voters.

Yep you're strapped in the back seat of the car with a drunk driver at the wheel and his foot on the floor driving on a snow covered mountainous road in the night. I'm not certain when this country will ever be able to undo the disastrous George W. Bush presidency.