US health care - the private option

Discussion in 'Politics' started by slurper_la, Aug 4, 2009.

  1. slurper_la

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  2. Big Irish

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    Whats so great about health insurance?

    40 yrs ago we had health insurance for aged americans. Then we created the medicare/medicaid system. This pushed out the plans for older americans within a few years, because no privately or publicly held company can compete with a non-profit gov't backed health program. The gov't doesn't have to worry because you are automatically participating when they take taxes from your check. Even if you don't use it. Plus medicare is unfunded by about 14,000,000,000,000$. If a pandemic or something worse hits it could bankrupt us at frightening speed. Plus, if the idiots that be, can't even read and uinderstand the bill, how can we trust them to administer it? But, most of all for me is that I have acousin who has just started residency, and has been told, if this passes, to leave medicine.

    Plus, Thomas Jefferson said,"Any gov't large enough to give you all that you want, is strong enough to take all that you have."
     
  3. sparky11point5

    sparky11point5 New Member

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    Well, close, but no credit for accuracy. Before 1965, only 50% of the elderly had health insurance.

    The Perpetual Republican War on Medicare | Crooks and Liars

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/05/weekinreview/05abelson.html

    Paul Krugman has also argued that Medicare is the only reason our system of private, employer-based insurance still works at all -- it is the only payer that can control spiraling health care costs.

    Also, medicare actually pays claims instead of denying them.
     
  4. scottredleter

    scottredleter New Member

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    The whole problem with health care is the criminal health insurance industry who has bribed and bought the US Govt. We've gotten rid of private slavery and replaced it with corporate slavery. Big business' only way to keep people making widgets at slave wages without having 'employees' just leave and look for something better is to hold them hostage through fear of financial ruin by way of illness. We have to decouple health care from employment all together and move to a complete socialized (yes, I said it!) medical system. Don't believe the fear mongers who tell you that the UK and Canada have horrible health care... the canadian people just named the man who brought them socialized medicine the number 1 most important Canadian in the last 100 years!
    And for those who say we can't go down that slippery slope of socialism, understand that we already have it in many areas of of our life. We pay taxes and then we expect police, fire, paramedics, etc to come to our home when we are in trouble... the opposite of this would be to pay an insurance company for police protection... no insurance, no police. No insurance, no military protection from foreign attacks. No insurance, let your house burn to the ground.
    Wake up America... we are being dupped and taken for a ride by a criminal health care industry who wants nothing but to make money. If you think that your insurance will be there for you, than you just haven't needed it yet. When you do, they will find a way to shit-can you so they don't have to pay out, and make more profits... They should be put in jail (another socialized aspect of our society that calls socialization a dirty word).
     
  5. sargon20

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    And in the corporate vaults of Blue Cross Blue Shield, Aetna, etc somewhere I'm sure they have receipts for every congressmen they bought or leased. You put in for Mama and Mama's puts out for you.

    A Canadian doctor diagnoses U.S. healthcare
     
  6. Phil Ayesho

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    You're an idiot and a tool of republican misinformation.

    Medicare was adopted because PRIVATE insurers WOULD NOT INSURE THE ELDERLY.
    Hospitals were required to offer care for folks who showed up in need, and were drowning.

    Private insurers have written their own legislation, bought politicians wholesale, and set YOU up to pay 5 times as much for the same pill they STILL makes a 200% profit on it Canada.

    They are spending 1.4 million dollars a DAY to try and stop healthcare reform...
    WHY?
    Cause they make a mint and they have it all their way.
    Where did all this surplus cash for hoodwinking idiots like you come from?

    Why YOU gave it to them in overcharged insurance.

    And-
    BTW-
    I don't fucking care what any of you dipshits THINK your insured for...
    Because NO ONE in this nation knows what they are covered for until they make a significant chronic claim.

    Wait until you find out, as 4 of my closests frineds have already discovered, that the private insurers are HAPPY to take your premiums for 20 years, and only after you make a claim discover that you had failed to fill in one line of one form 20 year previously and so are not covered.

    Wait until they make YOU have to hire a Lawyer and try to get a settlement or case heard in court before whatever you have kills you.



    Like most young people... you don't know shit about healthcare. And if you think the assholes charging you for insurance aren't in it for the golden parachutes, stock options and whatever else they can literally carve out of your hide, then you are too stupid to understand the world around you... better stay at home and play GTA.
     
  7. Penis Aficionado

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    Excellent posts, Scotredleter and Phil Ayesho.

    I've often wanted to challenge those who believe government can't run anything if they are willing to take over 100% responsibility for the safety of themselves, their families and their property.
     
  8. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    Goddamn, it's about freaking TIME.

    This is what I'm talking about...

    Took long enough.


    Obama: Health Care Overhaul Doesn't Have To Be Bipartisan



    WAKARUSA, Ind. — President Barack Obama said Wednesday he's determined to get an overhaul of the health care system before the end of the year and, if necessary, without bipartisan support.


    His comments reflected a growing sense among Democrats that they may have to carry the legislation to expand coverage and try to control medical costs with votes from lawmakers of their own party – or at best a handful of Republicans.

    Visiting economically stressed Indiana to announce $2.4 billion in taxpayer grants for electric cars and tens of thousands of jobs, Obama pledged successful conclusion of the health care overhaul that he argues would stabilize the nation's fiscal health.

    "I promise you, we will pass reform by the end of this year because the American people need it," the president said.

    --------------------


    As Bob Dylan said, GET OUT OF THE ROAD IF YA CAN'T LEND A HAND

    (cause the times, they are achangin'!)


    The conservatives are a bunch of dead weight, blocking and distracting, throwing in the red herring, PREVENTING real authentic change to the system. Time to play hard ball.... Get out of the road if ya can't lend a hand!
     
  9. D_Sir Fitzwilly Wankheimer III

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    and what do you think you are going to insured for under your government subsidiesed crap dipshit? tell me I'm interested smart ass. whats going to motivate them to serve you better when they are getting paid $10.00 to handle you claim. i've had no problems with my insurance. I'm not paying for your dumb ass.
     
  10. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Then by all means, Big E, don't pay your taxes. That way, your insignificant contribution to causes you don't care about will not be seen. Or even MISSED.
     
  11. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

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    What you are going to get is an EXTREMELY watered-down version of what Barrah was initially proposing, so he can claim victory. Otherwise, nationalized healthcare in it's initially proposed form is a deathblow to any (regardless of party affiliation) congressperson who supports that... in what is an upcoming election year. Thusly, part of the rush to push such a disastrous plan forward ASAP, as the American public is forgetful after the short-term.
     
  12. tripod

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    Treating health care like a commodity is absolutely barbaric and absurd, it's as simple as that. Making a profit by providing health care only leads to soaring costs and RATIONING of services.

    Almost all of the arguments for the health insurance industry and against a public option are propaganda and have no basis in reality.

    It's funny, none of the republicans and conservatives gave TWO SHITS about the cost of blowing up Iraq while they were searching for their bullshit weapons of mass destruction that NEVER existed.

    They don't mind shelling out their hard earned tax dollars to blow Iraqis up yet when faced with the opportunity to provide health care to all Americans through a single payer system, they instantly turn into little fucking armchair economists.

    So we can spend a trillion dollars those less fortunate Americans?

    You would rather buy a bomb to drop on someone's head but can't spring for a bottle of cough syrup for someone who needs it?

    You fucking conservatives are more focused with bringing chaos on the world then you are with creating the ideal one.

    You WILL rot in hell.
     
  13. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

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    Tripod... (trying my best not to berate you here).

    Treating food like a commodity is absolutely barbaric and absurd. Nestle, General Mills, TGIFriday's, et al
    Treating water like a commodity is absolutely barbaric and absurd. Evian, Poland Springs, Arrowhead, et al
    Treating housing like a commodity is absolutely barbaric and absurd. KB Homes, Shorenstein, Toll, et al


    That post is like wondering around the room of a 6th grade classroom with Crayon dipictures of a "perfect world".
     
  14. B_BigSchlongInTexas

    B_BigSchlongInTexas New Member

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    I would rather have private insurance companies instead of big corporate ones that make you pay for other people's health care screw that
     
  15. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    And of course, you make it look like Van Gogh with your infantile, kindergarten level response. The problem with all of your analogies is that people actually have a choice when they're purchasing food and water. Ones that don't require people out of the nose for service and doesn't do everything in its power to bankrupt you. The current private health plans does NOT give the people who need it adequate choices. If you don't need it, stick with your own and be gone. But don't deny anyone else that isn't you the right to have that government choice if they want it.

    I would give you credit on housing, but you do nothing but start shit wherever you post in these Political threads so no soup for you.
     
  16. midlifebear

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    Big Irish, sugar booger:

    You're a young thing and still forging you way in the world of the might USA workforce. You most likely don't need the insurance you have, except for emergencies.

    I remember when President Johnson and Congress pass Medicare and then Medicaid. Both my mother's and father's parents were alive; people who had large farms, turn a profit every year, always paid their taxes, and were as patriotic as all get out. But neither sets of grandparents could afford heath care. Why? Well, farmers -- even those with large profitable spreads -- rarely had the opportunity to band together and purchase group insurance. And when it was available, it was astronomically expensive for the 1950s and 1960s. One of my grandfathers was a WWI (yes, the first World War) veteran and therefore could take advantage of Venteran's Medical Facilities at a Veteran's Hospital (which historically, have until the last 15 or so years have had the worst track records for providing health care). Ask around, veterans from Korea and Viet Nam would practically chew a leg off rather than suffer the indignities of entering a Veteran's Hospital. However, things have changed and Veteran's Hospitals are much better than they once were.

    But my grandfather's wife and my other grandparents lived in fear that they may "lose the farm" -- which often happened -- if any of them suffered a serious illness that forced them to spend their retirement savings (401Ks didn't exist until the mid 1970's). So, imagine the thrill that my middle class farming grandparents enjoyed when they first sampled the benefits of Medicare. It extended and improved the quality of their lives. It didn't pay for everything, but it paid enough to subsidize them so they could afford health care. Same goes for Medicaid, which is doled out to those worse off and need constant medical care for chronic and terminal illness.

    Back in 1964-65 the same party, The Republicans, did everything in their power to stall and prevent President LBJ passing these two sweeping health care laws. Trust me. Most Republicans have NEVER had the best interest of all the citizens of the USA as a priority. That's why I'm so amused to see so many young conservative Republicans flummoxed and floundering as they've lost their six-figure jobs and the 18 months of COBRA has run out, leaving them broke, unemployed, and unable to afford health insurance. If nothing else, it has caused them to stop and think about health care in 'Mericuh -- which, by the way, it far too expensive compared to the bang for the Euro or Loony that most other 1st world industrialized societies enjoy.

    If you've got great insurance, keep it. But don't deny the opportunity for US Citizens who can not afford insurance to opt for an inexpensive single-payer plan or wholly subsidized health benefits. Preventing the 40 million (plus or minus) 'Mericuhns access to decent health care is dishonorable and cruel. To find out how inhumane the system we now have in place is, wait until you lose your own job and benefits and are unable to purchase insurance comparable to what you have. Just wait.
     
  17. midlifebear

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    Big Irish, sugar booger:

    You're a young thing and still forging your way in the world of the mighty USA workforce. You most likely don't need the insurance you have, except for emergencies.

    I remember when President Johnson and Congress passed Medicare and then Medicaid. Both my mother's and father's parents were alive; people who had large farms, turned a profit every year, always paid their taxes, and were as patriotic as all get out. But neither sets of grandparents could afford heath care. Why? Well, farmers -- even those with large profitable spreads -- rarely had the opportunity to band together and purchase group insurance. And when it was available, it was astronomically expensive for the 1950s and 1960s. One of my grandfathers was a WWI (yes, the first World War) veteran and therefore could take advantage of Veteran's Medical Facilities at a Veteran's Hospital (which historically, have until the last 15 or so years had the worst track records for providing health care). Ask around, veterans from Korea and Viet Nam would practically chew a leg off rather than suffer the indignities of entering a Veteran's Hospital. However, things have changed and Veteran's Hospitals are much better than they once were.

    But my grandfather's wife and my other grandparents lived in fear that they may "lose the farm" -- which often happened -- if any of them suffered a serious illness that forced them to spend their retirement savings (401Ks didn't exist until the mid 1970's). So, imagine the thrill that my middle class farming grandparents enjoyed when they first sampled the benefits of Medicare. It extended and improved the quality of their lives. It didn't pay for everything, but it paid enough to subsidize them so they could afford health care. Same goes for Medicaid, which is doled out to those worse off and need constant medical care for chronic and terminal illness.

    Back in 1964-65 the same party, The Republicans, did everything in their power to stall and prevent President LBJ passing these two sweeping health care laws. Trust me. Most Republicans have NEVER had the best interest of all the citizens of the USA as a priority. That's why I'm so amused to see so many young conservative Republicans flummoxed and floundering as they've lost their six-figure jobs and the 18 months of COBRA has run out, leaving them broke, unemployed, and unable to afford health insurance. If nothing else, it has caused them to stop and think about health care in 'Mericuh -- which, by the way, is far too expensive compared to the bang for the Euro or Loony that most other 1st world industrialized societies enjoy.

    If you've got great insurance, keep it. But don't deny the opportunity for US Citizens who can not afford insurance to opt for an inexpensive single-payer plan or wholly subsidized health benefits. Preventing the 40 million (plus or minus) 'Mericuhns access to decent health care is dishonorable and cruel. To find out how inhumane the system we now have in place is, wait until you lose your own job and benefits and are unable to purchase insurance comparable to what you have. Just wait. :smile:
     
  18. tripod

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    Well, water has industrial and municipal use, so it absolutely could be sold as a commodity. Housing takes a lot of capital to build, so it seems appropriate to be treated as a commodity also. Food is in the same boat so I am in total agreement with you Face. :smile:
     
  19. Phil Ayesho

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    What a class a moron.

    Hey, shit for brains, try turning on your fucking kitchen faucet.
    What comes out when you do?

    Why drinking water... perfectly safe, perfectly clean drinking water that your clueless government manages to collect from far and wide, distribute to your community, purify and pump into your home.
    And you rely on the fact that your government TESTS that water for safety and purity every 10 minutes, day or night, rain or shine, year in and year out.

    And how much do you PAY for that water? So little you can fucking bathe in it without considering the cost.

    And how much do you pay for Evian? a privatized provider of drinking water?
    Do they pump it into your home? Do they test it regularly? ( no, they don't)
    And where does Evian GET its water from, that they then mark up and sell to you? Why they get it from the fucking municipal water system, from the TAP.


    Your imbecilic bias against your government is evidence of how ignorant you really are... You trust your government to run the largest arsenal in the world... you trust them with nuclear weapons.. you trust them to deliver your mail, trust them to build the road you drive on, trust them to make sure the big rig barreling along beside you is not overloaded and has functioning brakes...

    And when you turn 65... you will be on medicare... and be fucking happy to have it, because WITHOUT medicare no private insurer in the US would cover you.

    And just wait, buddy boy... wait until you lose your job, or otherwise have some hiccup in your coverage... just TRY getting private insurance after you have had any interruption in coverage...

    Or better yet... wait until you discover the hidden CAPS to what they will cover you for, and end up losing everything you own trying to keep from dying, because THAT is when they will pull this on you... when you are less likely to survive long enough to win a case in court.

    Like every other jackass of your ilk, if it hasn't happened to YOU, yet, it hasn't happened.
    Thank you for your fucking self centered lack of any civic virtue.

    I bet you even think of yourself as a christian... too.

    you don't like the government? Disconnect your goddamn water line and fend for your fucking self... I am sick of paying for your water.

    your a self absorbed and uneducated hypocrite.
     
  20. HazelGod

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    :biggrin1:

    +1, to everything Phil just said.

    Sorry, couldn't resist.
     
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