US Supreme Court legalizes bribery

D_Tintagel_Demondong

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It has nothing to do with the right- or left-aligned wing of the citizenry. As a corporate oligarchy moves from the shadows into the open, the schism between those of means and those without will widen further.

If you believe the right-wing militia types will be included in that power structure, you're sorely mistaken.

No, we're approaching a tipping point, in my opinion. In one scenario, we experience a revolution and a reconstruction of government that eliminates the lever of career politics by which corporations exert their influence...and in the other, the apathetic citizenry simply can't be bothered to get up from their sofas to make any stand, and so become literal wage slaves to those in power.

Fuck yes. I've been harping about this for so, so long. Start with a new constitution, or just get rid of it altogether.

When the government no longer represents the people... yadda... yadda...
 

HazelGod

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Needless to say, this ruling falls in line with the Republican vision of America, and is what they wanted all along. That's why they carry health insurance providers, oil companies, tobacco companies, and banks in their side pockets.

If you think this is a GOP matter, you're either being stunningly naive or deliberately obtuse. Essentially every one of them on the Hill has been bought and paid for by corporate interests several times over, jackasses and pachyderms alike.

Don't believe me? Take a look at how much good for the average citizen has been wrought during the past 12 months under the guidance of "new" leadership. We the people elected a populist Democrat as POTUS, and gave his party a majority in the House and a filibuster-proof supermajority in the Senate. What have they accomplished with this politically insuperable force? NOTHING.

As much as I despise the previous administration for its horrendous policies and the GOP controlled Congress who gave it everything it asked, I'm coming to hate this one just as much...not for what it has done, but for its inability to do ANYTHING given its potential.

Why, you ask? For the same reason I've voiced again and again...career politicians. They can be bought by moneyed special interests because it's their own re-election that sits foremost among their concerns. There are only two ways to solve the dilemma: either alter the very nature of human beings to remove the selfish and greedy traits that are handles for manipulation, or eliminate the concept of career politics itself.
 

maxcok

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Anyone else notice that the He/She Holy It, FaceQueen, Starinjestor, and one or two other infamous "I'm always right and you all are always wrong" posters are not joining in on this thread? Hmmmmm . . . .

Are you insane? Do not awaken sleeping zombies!!!





(Hey, I drank all the Jack. Have you got some ol No.7 I can take out on the porch with me?)

 
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deleted15807

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As long as it takes tens of millions to run a campaign our politicians will always be susceptible to corporate influence. Citizens are not going to donate millions for a politician to run a campaign so the only place left for them to go are corporations. Don't blame the politicians blame the public for voting for the guy with the most ads. They are just that stupid.

The Public Sucks
 
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D_Tully Tunnelrat

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Ironically this decision over rode it's a major precedent which was Buckley vs. Valeo. In that 1976 decision the Court maintained that political campaign contributions were a form of free speech, and therefore protected, but the Court did put limits on contributions, save in the case of self-funding.

As we saw in the case of Bloomberg's New York Mayoral campaign, it can cost $175 a vote to win even a weakly contested election. (extrapolated out on the national level, it's only $11T to buy the Presidency). Now even the Court's meager limits, upheld again in Austin v. Michigan, and McConnell vs. FEC are removed.

If history is any guide, then we'll have more Teapot Dome scandals, in which pubic lands were leased off to private oil companies in 1922, (does this sound familiar to the Bush era?) for a "free" loan to the then Secretary of the Interior.

As bad as this is, and it's damn ugly. Hootie, despite his tone, does raise an interesting point. Since US corporations are now majority owned by pension and mutual funds, what if those owners exercised their proxy rights, and brought rapacious CEOs to a stricter legal standard? It maybe far fetched, but there is some precedence, as Phil Angelides did when he was on the board of CalPers/Sters, the third largest pension fund in the US.

That tact may not be the only ray of hope here, although, with the Mass R victory, it's unlikely that Congress will be able to draft legislation countervailing this decision, since the Court has struck down corporate campaign finance limits at least twice in the modern era. However, a Constitutional Amendment, tough as it would be to pass, would then be unassailable by SCOTUS.

Here's the gist of a populist proposed Constitutional Campaign Finance Reform Amendment here:
What will the Free Speech for People Amendment say and what will it do? | freespeechforpeople.org

The only other way out here is the public financing of all political campaigns, but so long as the incumbents are already in power on someone else's dime, it's going to be almost impossible to pull them away from the corporate trough.

SCOTUSblog
 

D_Bob_Crotchitch

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I have to agree with Tripod, Hootie...that was one of the stupidest remarks I've ever seen come from your quarter.

The board of directors is voted in by shareholders. Every so often, shareholders revolt and vote out board members. The biggest problem is most people just sit and bitch. They don't do anything.
Tripod, get real. One of the wealthiest people in the world is a liberal Democrat. His name is Warren Buffett.
Personally, I get ballots every single year in the mail to vote on board members. If you don't, it's because you don't own any stock or mutual funds. I do have a vote in who sits on the boards. I use my vote.
If everybody else would stop pissing and band together, you could make a difference. Warren Buffett has been known to lead board fights himself. Why don't you get up and do something and stop pissing and moaning?
Oh Tripod, I forgot, you don't have investments. Buy vicodin. There is a readily available market for it at 2 am in almost every city.
 

D_Bob_Crotchitch

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Before you go spouting off about who gets what money from whom, you should investigate deeper into the public disclosure of campaign contributions. In the last presidential election, more of the banks and financial institutions gave money to Obama's campaign than to McCain's. They play both sides of the fence. When will some of you see it isn't one party that is rotten, it's both?
 

gymfresh

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Most people here haven't said a word about which party this decision may or may not favor, although it's pretty obvious the Supremes think it will benefit the Republicans most.

No, what worries me is legislators of any party being influenced by massive contributions to allow the financial sector to self-police, the food sector to self-inspect and the health sector to self-regulate. American business wants NO government in their affairs, and that's never a good idea. Business doesn't own this country; government does. Government writes the laws, government enforces the laws, and ultimately government owns every last inch of land in this country. Don't believe it? Try not paying your property taxes. Government grants rights, like freedom of religion and freedom of speech, but only because those rights were government's to grant in the first place. It could also have said "no".

I don't want to live in a country that is run by corporate dollars. I want a country in which human beings have the control, and business operates as a privilege granted through government with clear parameters. Every business should have to register why they are in business, with what capital parameters, and for what duration. None of this behemoth shit. Excess operating capital may be returned to shareholders, but never used to sway legislators' or citizens' votes. Hell, as it is they can even deduct their lobbying as a business expense -- screwing us twice.

Yesterday's Sup Ct decision envisions a country most of us don't care to live in.
 

D_Bob_Crotchitch

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The Supreme Court has made decisions for years that make me not want to live here. The only problem is there isn't anywhere else that is better.
Something that has alarmed me for quite some time is the ever strengthening power of the presidency. It has the potential to one day become a dictatorship. It has slowly but surely become stronger for decades. The executive branch appoints czars who issue orders as though they are law. Nobody voted those people into office, and Congress did not approve them. They don't have any legal authority to be doing any of it.
 

D_Bob_Crotchitch

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Most people here haven't said a word about which party this decision may or may not favor, although it's pretty obvious the Supremes think it will benefit the Republicans most.

How did you come up with that? The Democrats in Congress are not poor. Some of the wealthiest people in the USA are not Republicans. In fact, Warren Buffett is a liberal Democrat. The money has spread all over the place. You even have Rockefellers that are Democrats.
Regarding lobbying, yes it's revolting. Corporations do it. Unions do it. Special interest groups do it. Though it is illegal, foreign businessmen do it. The Congress has long been for sale. In fact, when they leave public office, many members of Congress become lobbyists themselves.
I still don't understand how anybody that took money from Abramoff could be chosen by their peers to head the Senate.
 

gymfresh

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The executive branch appoints czars who issue orders as though they are law.

Where did this goofy idea of "czars" suddenly being a problem come from, anyway? The government has used the term for 75 years and no one cared. They have no teeth; they can't make laws or enforce anything. They just evaluate and counsel, or help implement a policy decided on by cabinet secretaries and the President; the term is used to mean someone with broad scope to look at an issue or problem, since the President can't look at everything at once. It's probably a poor choice of word, but their function is perfectly valid. And harmless.
 

maxcok

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Why don't you get up and do something and stop pissing and moaning?
umm . . . isn't that what you're doing? and what do you propose we do exactly? I'm all ears.

When will some of you see it isn't one party that is rotten, it's both?
Well, I submit that it's the system that is rotten.

The Supreme Court has made decisions for years that make me not want to live here. The only problem is there isn't anywhere else that is better.
Have you been to Sweden? I mean, it's cold and all, but still. Fiji's nice too, if you like that sort of thing.

Most people here haven't said a word about which party this decision may or may not favor, although it's pretty obvious the Supremes think it will benefit the Republicans most.
. . . and could that possibly be because the Repubs are already tools of Big Business?? Duh, I dunno.

I once again salute the OP for being an intelligent voice of reason in the discussion. Now here's this little gem for y'all to consider again:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. Thomas Jefferson, et al

Oh shit, corporations are people now, aren't they? Kinda fucks that up don't it?
I'll be out on the porch. Let me know when the revolution gets goin. (We are so screwed.)

 
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HUNGHUGE11X7

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Its sick; who appointed these people?

Two of the 5 morons were appointed by an equally mental defective... W !!!
I believe the ethnic misogynist was appointed by dear old dad .

Shoot you even had peeps like Streisand send money to campaign funds for Texas Dems running for congress.

This analogy is so inane where to start ? You deign to suggest that a wealthy celeb who by the way is subjected to the same campaign contribution limits as you and I should be compared to a corporation capable of spending millions to buy a bill, a vote or an office ?

Anyone else notice that the He/She Holy It, FaceQueen, Starinjestor, and one or two other infamous "I'm always right and you all are always wrong" posters are not joining in on this thread? Hmmmmm . . . .

hahahahaha I can always count on you for an eloquently verbose HILARIOUS comment ! A few of the Neo-cons replied on another thread I noticed . Naturally they are supporting it and showing the inherrent hypocrisy of their group . They cry about big government and people not having the power YET they rejoice the day corporate America is allowed to BUY politicians LEGALLY Ad naseum !

Are you insane? Do not awaken sleeping zombies!!!

Heyyyy I find that highly offensive TO THE ZOMBIES !

How did you come up with that? The Democrats in Congress are not poor. Some of the wealthiest people in the USA are not Republicans. In fact, Warren Buffett is a liberal Democrat. The money has spread all over the place. You even have Rockefellers that are Democrats.

This is just plain insulting to anyone with a modicum of intelligence that KNOWS Big Oil companies , Big Insurance companies and the INvestment "TOO BIG TO FAIL" Banks all favor conservative candidates , throw the majority of their money at them and NOW can promise them eternal congressional life if they thwart legislation that would CEASE THEIR GREED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


HH
 

joyboytoy79

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The board of directors is voted in by shareholders. Every so often, shareholders revolt and vote out board members. The biggest problem is most people just sit and bitch. They don't do anything.
Tripod, get real. One of the wealthiest people in the world is a liberal Democrat. His name is Warren Buffett.
Personally, I get ballots every single year in the mail to vote on board members. If you don't, it's because you don't own any stock or mutual funds. I do have a vote in who sits on the boards. I use my vote.
If everybody else would stop pissing and band together, you could make a difference. Warren Buffett has been known to lead board fights himself. Why don't you get up and do something and stop pissing and moaning?
Oh Tripod, I forgot, you don't have investments. Buy vicodin. There is a readily available market for it at 2 am in almost every city.

Here, what you're saying is that those with the money to buy shares, by virtue of their wealth, should be allowed to have a greater voice than those who do not have money to buy shares. Sure, YOU get ballots. Those who have more money invested get MORE ballots. So... those with the most money have the biggest voice. Those with no money get to be happy with the scraps that are left over, and shut up.

"If everyone would stop pissing and moaning..." the problem, hootie, is that "everyone" isn't part of that game. You know those small businesses everyone is always talking about as the best potential for economic growth? They don't offer their employees 401Ks or pensions. Those people who work for small businesses are left out in the cold, by your reasoning. In fact, again, it's the poorest contingent of the country that gets left out in the cold. What ever happened to one man, one vote?

Before you go spouting off about who gets what money from whom, you should investigate deeper into the public disclosure of campaign contributions. In the last presidential election, more of the banks and financial institutions gave money to Obama's campaign than to McCain's. They play both sides of the fence. When will some of you see it isn't one party that is rotten, it's both?

See, and here you talk about corporate contributions like a bad thing. In the post above, you're defending it. Here, you're saying it's making both sides "rotten." Which is it? Is it a practice that really doesn't limit the common man's voice, since the common man gets to vote for those who get to decide who gets the most money, or is it a factor that leads to "rotting"?

How did you come up with that? The Democrats in Congress are not poor. Some of the wealthiest people in the USA are not Republicans. In fact, Warren Buffett is a liberal Democrat. The money has spread all over the place. You even have Rockefellers that are Democrats.
Regarding lobbying, yes it's revolting. Corporations do it. Unions do it. Special interest groups do it. Though it is illegal, foreign businessmen do it. The Congress has long been for sale. In fact, when they leave public office, many members of Congress become lobbyists themselves.
I still don't understand how anybody that took money from Abramoff could be chosen by their peers to head the Senate.

Warren Buffett is not in Congress. Nor is he particularly liberal. And while he may be a registered Democrat, he hasn't shied away from supporting Republicans. He was, actually, a big part of the reason California has a Republican governor. Just because he backed Obama does not mean he's liberal. In fact, MOST liberals are rather invested in the idea of a cleaner environment, whereas Buffet gets a great deal of his money from coal. He does own PacifiCorp, you know. He's a very bad example for the point you're trying to get across. You could do much better.

As far as lobbying. It's just become more legally sound. Since money is speech, now. But hey, YOU own shares, so YOU can vote on WHO gets to buy WHAT in congress! When your mom is dying of cancer and her insurance provider denies coverage, and she can't get new coverage because of her preexisting condition, make sure you buy up some more shares so you can have those corporate big wigs change the laws for you.
 

D_Bob_Crotchitch

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This is just plain insulting to anyone with a modicum of intelligence that KNOWS Big Oil companies , Big Insurance companies and the INvestment "TOO BIG TO FAIL" Banks all favor conservative candidates , throw the majority of their money at them and NOW can promise them eternal congressional life if they thwart legislation that would CEASE THEIR GREED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


HH


You need to get real. A whole lot of what is posted on this site is political party dogma, and rhetoric. When have you ever gone, and actually looked at a disclosure? You'd be amazed to see the truth. Instead people keep posting the same old bs that the parties have spouted for years.
My post about a celebrity making a contribution in another state was to point out that monied people all over are putting their finger into national politics. Personally, I don't believe people outside of a state should be jacking around with elections in another state. I include all special interest groups in that statement.
The biggest problem is the general public will not vote the majority of these crooks out of office. They worship their political party, and fight anything that has to do with the other. Personally, I believe H Ross Perot was the last person to run for president that had the best interest of the country in mind. He is the only one of the major candidates that spoke out against NAFTA. He explained the massive job losses that would result from such agreements. Unfortunately, he was right. Just look at us now.
AIG and Lehman Brothers, are just two of the fiascos that the Federal Reserve could have prevented and didn't. I don't know if Greenspan was just stupid or if he had age related issues.
If you think czars don't have power you better think again. Start watching the orders they are issuing in the name of the President. Legally, they have no power. In function, they are giving orders like mad.
Certain very wealthy people do engage in legal but extremely unethical behavior. George Soros not only causes economic havoc with nations currencies but he makes huge political campaign contributions. He is
not a conservative. He caused economic harm in the UK by speculating with the pound sterling, and forcing the UK to change it's valuation.
Open your eyes. When the government allowed internet trading from outside the country, it allowed foreign investors to speculate and quickly wreck havoc on the markets. The party the USA has had since the 1990s, has been funded in large by foreign investment. China is already speaking out about the massive debt and irresponsible spending of the USA. For a while now, China has called for the world to stop using the dollar as the currency pricing instrument. Everything is weighted against the dollar. That may soon change. When it does, get ready for pain. This past year, an effort was made to stop pricing oil against the dollar. Saudi Arabia once again intervened on behalf of the USA. If you get down to brass tacks, I personally believe we invaded Iraq to protect Saudi Oil fields and terminals. Saddam was making threats against them. If we lost Saudi Arabia's oil, gasoline would sky rocket to prices similar to those in Europe. The cost of energy alone would plunge the USA into economic disaster.
You can keep on blaming the party you don't like but the truth is both were involved, and the general public acted like spoiled children. In a free society, the people have the ultimate say on who is in office. They brought this on the themselves. I encourage all of you who hate what is happening to pick up the phone and call your Congressmen, and Senators in DC. Tell them how you feel on issues. Be brief, be specific, and support it with facts.
 
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deleted3782

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For those that have the time, it is interesting to read the comments of the Justices here.

Justice Scalia, who voted in favor of the ruling, writes:
All the provisions of the Bill of Rights set forth the rights of individual men and women—not, for example, of trees or polar bears. But the individual person’s right to speak includes the right to speak in association with other individual persons. Surely the dissent does not believe that speech by the Republican Party or the Democratic Party can be censored because it is not the speech of “an individual American.” It is the speech of many individual Americans, who have associated in a common cause, giving the leadership of the party the right to speak on their behalf. The association of individuals in a business corporation is no different—or at least it cannot be denied the right to speak on the simplistic ground that it is not “an individual American.”
Justice Stevens counters:

In the context of election to public office, the distinction between corporate and human speakers is significant. Although they make enormous contributions to our society, corporations are not actually members of it. They cannot vote or run for office. Because they may be managed and controlled by nonresidents, their interests may conflict in fundamental respects with the interests of eligible voters. The financial resources, legal structure,and instrumental orientation of corporations raise legitimate concerns about their role in the electoral process. Our lawmakers have a compelling constitutional basis, if not also a democratic duty, to take measures designed to guard against the potentially deleterious effects of corporate spending in local and national races.
The red flag I see in this ruling is that now can be a voice for the "majority of the majority"...in that the majority of a group or corporation can, by virtue of their majority status in a group, have an additional (some would say united) voice in an election process. Of course, the minority of a group can form its own smaller (united) voice as well. In addition, the interests of a corporation (most often the right to make money) can be different than [and conflicting to?] the interests of a voter (such as the right to carry a weapon).

Stevens:
the Court’s opinion is thus a rejection of the common sense of the American people, who have recognized a need to prevent corporations from undermining self government since the founding, and who have fought against the distinctive corrupting potential of corporate electioneering since the days of Theodore Roosevelt [nice jab to the Republicans!]. It is a strange time to repudiate that common sense. While American democracy is imperfect, few outside the majority of this Court would have thought its flaws included a dearth of corporate money in politics.
In the end...it will be interesting to see if voices balance out. Will Oprah Inc and FoxNews more aggressively endorse selected candidates? These are two examples of corporations that certainly can benefit from political passions through increased ratings. Will this give renewed relevance to Unions in the USA? I am curious to see how this plays out...and whether future courts uphold this opinion as a result.
 
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deleted15807

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Will Oprah Inc and FoxNews more aggressively endorse selected candidates?

You are lumping a once a weekday hourly show which she NEVER used as a platform to promote a single candidate to FoxNews-FauxNews-FixedNews 24X7 Republican propaganda network? :rolleyes: