Vagina Training, Kegels, Stretching, ect

Discussion in 'Women's Issues' started by RKNG, May 16, 2010.

  1. RKNG

    RKNG New Member

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    sorry for the vague, anonymous new person question, but I've had a serious question or two that I've been stewing on for a while, and my fiancee and I found this place a while back and it seemed like the best place to ask such a question.

    I got the idea in my head at some point, that if a woman's vagina was exercised/trained/worked out/ect with larger toys and stretching towards fisting, that sort of things, and she did kegels and such, that over time it would result in not only being able to take more, but ALSO that it would make her able to seem tighter (when she wanted to) as well.
    the logic behind it being something to the effect of being that all the training and such would give her better control over the muscles in general and that sort of thing. has anyone heard of this idea, or have experience to support or refute this theory?

    I've come to be pretty good with my large, dexterous hands, and we've experimented with squeezing more fingers, using toys, ect into her, which she enjoys greatly.
    now, each time we've had a session where we got to the larger degree of things, we've been able to get a little more, and/or a little more readily, but we've not gotten to being able to get my whole hand. at first we weren't sure it would *ever* be possible from bones and such getting in the way (she has not had a child, and will not, as she had to have a partial hysterectomy) but after a few times we've been getting noticably closer...

    SO, a time or two ago of getting like 4 fingers in and using a 2" thick(diameter) toy, after a few days of recovery(it was a hell of a session... lol, wiped us both out completely for like 2 days) she was noticably, and very pleasantly tighter than "usual".
    this supports the original "theory", but i am not sure if thats normal or the anomaly, as other times, while after a few days she was not noticably less-tight than before, it hasn't been as distinctively tighter after recovery on a consistent basis.

    in the long run we(yes, both of us) would like to be able to train her to at will, open up and relax for playing with larger things/more fingers/ect, OR tighten up and be extra tight for regular sex or other "scene"-y things.
    she enjoys both the experience of her limits being pushed with occasional (maybe once every 2 or 3 weeks I'd guess) larger toys and such, AND with feeling like I'm huge in her. so such training would be beneficial for both of us.

    is that goal/ideal end result, possible? would using a weighted kegel exerciser be beneficial for this? anyone had any experience with vaginal training in such a way?

    I realize that the vagina is very elastic, and can recover very well... but short of something severely traumatic like childbirth, what if any limit is there to its recovery?
    could larger things be done for a few days in a row, keeping it stretched out and loosened up, and then give a few days (or a week?) break and kegels-ing and snap back to be like new(well, or enough to be enjoyably tight) again? (the experience of sex when shes opened up like that is enjoyable once in a while to me, but kinda a "nice place to visit, but would rather not live there" sorta thing)

    I'm large enough to qualify to use this site anyway, so as long as she can recover back to being enjoyably tight within a week or two, then thats ok... I don't need her to be able to clamp down like a vice on my pinky finger or anything... this is probably a silly concern, in reality. but reassurance, and any thoughts on the thing of learning to have control to deliberately go in both directions to an extent, would be helpful.

    gotta love internet anonymity... but this is a serious question.

    oh and if it has any relevance... my Penis is ~8"long and something in the area of 6" circumfrence at the largest part, at full mast. (thicker than a toilet paper tube) and my hand... well it takes some doing, and it distorts the shape of a pringles can to get my whole hand in it.
     
  2. HiddenLacey

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    Wait so in short what are you asking? Any muscle that gets a workout is going to be in better shape. May I reccommend that you and your wife join fistforum.com. There are a lot of postings about control and stretching on that site. Some of the women and men can do pretty amazing things. I can't take a fist nor have I ever tried to take a mans fist, but I have used dildo's and things around 6 inches around or 2 inches in diameter. But I use kegel balls a lot as well. I now have to ablility to squeeze my guy to orgasm :) Check out that site as I said they have a lot of info there, and good pictures as well for you and your wife. Everyone is super nice. Goodluck!
     
  3. RawDog

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    #3 RawDog, May 16, 2010
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  4. petite

    petite New Member

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    I don't know! I am experimenting with this now. We've just begun trying to stretch me out enough for his fist and I use Kegel exercisers. Hopefully I soon know if it's possible to enlarge my vaginal capacity while still retaining the same level or greater muscle tone. It would seem logically possible, but we'll see if reality matches my expectations.

    Bear in mind that I am pregnant, so any gains I make in stretching or any of my results could be do to the hormone relaxin (or other pregnancy related factors) and may not be results that non-pregnant women could expect.

    I do become less tight when we're having regular sex, but that's a good thing. If we haven't had sex in a week or two, the first time makes me sore very fast and I get that burning feeling from the stretching. He tells me that I am much tighter without flexing my muscles.
     
    #4 petite, May 18, 2010
    Last edited: May 18, 2010
  5. HiddenLacey

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    Stretching is good for you right now petite :) Less chance of tearing there's a whole thread on the other forum about that:wink: They make all kinds of fancy stretcher's:rolleyes: personally I would rather play with my man! Have fun:smile:
     
  6. petite

    petite New Member

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    That's why we're practicing it! I've never had an interest in fisting.

    So far, it's mostly just been uncomfortable for both of us. He had to stop last time because he said it made his hand hurt, like someone squeezing his fingers too tight when shaking his hand. It doesn't feel at all pleasurable to me. All I feel are knobbly knuckles and a very uncomfortable "that doesn't belong there" feeling even though I orgasm once before we start.

    We always do end up having fun, because once we start we always end up doing other things.

    Fancy stretchers? Like what?
     
  7. HiddenLacey

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    I just like insertions period not so much to fist part I'm not sure I'll ever be able to do that we can only do three fingers comfortably, but we got up to 4 one time it was very uncomfortable to me. Ummm lets see

    GyneFlex - Vaginal Stretching

    www.epino.de

    Just be careful make sure you talk to your dr about when you two should be doing this. I'm not sure how far along you are, but I've heard there are certain times when it is reccommended. Here's a link too someone who tried the epino on fistforum.com I'm not sure what the results were I didn't read it all since I've never had a baby. But I have already decided if and when I do I'm going the midwife way just so hopefully they can teach me about all of this.

    Vaginal Stretching Advice

    Oh and congrats on the little bean (lol thats what I call them cause all the ultrasounds I see when they are little look like little beans :)
     
    #7 HiddenLacey, May 18, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2010
  8. petite

    petite New Member

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    Yeah, he can just barely fit four fingers in right now. We're practicing with three until that becomes easier.

    The GyneFlex shouldn't be called a stretching device. It's a resistance exerciser. I use that one right now, when I can remember to use it!

    The one that inflates looks interesting. A cheaper option might just be to get an inflatable dildo.

    I like my vagina the way it is, so I'm planning on having a C-section because of my thin hips and what I've read of the "shearing forces" during vaginal birth that cause nerve damage in women. There are estimates that up to 80% of all women who gave vaginal birth have nerve damage that affects pleasure or muscle control. My mother, who is also petite, has told me horror stories about the difficulties she had during labor. I have no illusions. My hips are only 13" wide and TheBoyfriend was a big baby so I might have cephalopelvic disproportion anyway, I'd just rather not wait until the second stage of labor before being diagnosed. However, I want to be prepared just in case I'm not conveniently near the hospital if I go into early labor.
     
  9. HiddenLacey

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    Ugh ok I can understand that completely. Better safe than sorry. See I'm one of the poor saps that wants to try natural childbirth without even drugs. WE SHALL SEE:eek: but I'm also 5'7, if I were your size I'd be more inclined to do the same thing.
     
    #9 HiddenLacey, May 18, 2010
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  10. petite

    petite New Member

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    If I have to have a vaginal birth, I also want to do it without drugs. They believe that numbing women from pain contributes to the nerve damage during labor. A woman who feels no pain can't feel the damage she's doing to herself and she'll damage herself much more than a woman whose pain nerves are telling her when to stop and not to push too hard. For that reason, it's either a C-section, or drug free vaginal birth for me!

    I just don't want to experience permanent damage from this experience. I've been told by other women that they wish they had opted for a C-section, too.
     
    #10 petite, May 18, 2010
    Last edited: May 18, 2010
  11. HiddenLacey

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    Interesting I've only spoken with the midwife's at the clinic I used to work at and they don't perform c-sections you have to have an OB to do that. I just don't like the OB dr's as much. I'm against the epidural as well. No one likes pain, but I think we are better able to control the situation if we can listen to (feel) our bodies during the experience. I also like the freedom midwivery gives you during the birth process. But I fully understand the way I feel may not be for everyone. Good luck to you doll I'm sure everything will go wonderfully:smile: no matter which way you give birth!
     
  12. RKNG

    RKNG New Member

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    thanks for the comments.

    I guess I am wondering how plausible the idea is(of being able to at will relax open and stretch to take a fist or such, and recover to be normally enjoyably tight as well). as was said, it seems like it should make sense. I mean a gymnast that trains to put their legs behind their head don't have trouble standing up straight now do they? or be unable or especially weak in moving their legs to the other end of the range of motion.

    our last try (since posting this to begin with) got a little further. almost over the base of my thumb. ... but then there was a problem. less getting over that last biggest point... but on the inside, my fingers poking her deep inside such that it hurts. I tried curling my fingers more and that didn't really help much as I couldn't curl it that much very well.

    we unexpectedly ... got going the next day and she was still swollen from the previous night's activities, and whoo... that was something on both sides!

    In our experience some degree of "loosening" just from normal sex is normal, and only takes a day or two of "break" to recover that.
     
  13. HiddenLacey

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    You should go to fistforum.com there are a lot of people there talking about how to do this :) They are all really nice too! And lots of pic's!
     
  14. D_Sparroe Spongecaques

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    You're planning one or your consultant is? It isnt so much to do with hips as pelvimetry.I myself am 5ft and was 7stone when i delivered my eldest daughter...11lbs 6...and as my pelvis was wide enough i was fine.Having poor muscle control is truly no reason to have a c section which is a whole lot more risky than a vaginal delivery.Maybe things are different in USA but here you would be extremely lucky to get a c section for fear of nerve damage or lack of pleasure.
    It's a rare thing to hear anything but horror stories and even though your mum had probs doesnt mean that you will.TheBoyfriend being a big baby won't make a jot of difference tbh.Any physician worth his salt will diagnose any probs with your pelvis etc prior to labouring.

    It doesnt go by height but by pelvimetry.Plus,don't be a martyr to the pain...be prepared incase as it can be either a breeze or a soddin great hurricane of agony

    LOL,and they really think a c section causes less nerve damage? Hmmm a 10-12 inch incision across the lower abdomen causes a lorry load more nerve damage than an episiotomy/tear trust me.13 years of being a midwife AND 3 c sections myself taught me that....i still have no feeling in my lower abdomen due to the c section.BTW,i had c sections due to one of the older twins being transverse and having placenta praevia with the other pregnancies who led to surgical delivery.

    Always be prepared for the birth plan to go right out of the window.In 13 years less than 5% of my patients have had the birth they planned right down to the letter.Epidurals/spinal block are not as bad as people think otherwise they wouldnt be widely used.

    I hope my comments are read the way i intended and not sarcastic or patronising:smile:
     
  15. petite

    petite New Member

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    I'm 8 stone and I'm not actually short in the legs, just the torso. The size in my pants reads "US 1" but I have long legs, so that's a problem for me because adult women's clothes in my size usually come from the "petite" shops, so the pants are too short for me! I shop in stores intended for children or teens a lot if I don't want to mail order clothing that's made for adults!

    I'm aware of pelvimetry, I just avoid using technical terminology that would require explaining if it's not necessary because I want what I write to be accessible to everyone. My 13" hips translates to even smaller width of my actual hipbones since I have a little padding on the widest area of my hips that's wider than the actual bones (or I'd look really gross!) and there are proportional dimensions related with the width of the pelvis to the pelvic opening. I realize that there are outliers, but if my pelvic opening was proportionally large compared to the width of my hips, I think they would be so fragile that I would have fractured a hip when I fell down the stairs last year!

    I know that midwives prefer vaginal delivery, I'm aware, but I would prefer a c-section. It's available as an elective surgery here in the US and I'm willing to pay and can afford to pay for it if it isn't covered by my insurance.

    I'm concerned about the shearing forces on the pudendal nerve from being crushed between the ischial spine and the baby's head as the child's head squeezes through during vaginal delivery. The force of that is so great that it flexes open the woman's pelvis, causing damage that is so obvious that an anthropologist who finds an intact woman's pelvis can detect if she's given birth with just a glance. Since the force is so great that it forces her pelvis to open and permanently changes her bones, think about the crushing forces on the nerves and flesh between the pelvic bone and that child's head, specifically those nerves responsible for sexual sensations.

    If I have the choice of choosing, which I do, I would rather lose feeling in my lower abdomen than my vagina or clitoris, which I know is a consequence of vaginal delivery because the pudendal nerve innervates the clitoris. While some women are lucky enough to deliver many babies without it affecting their sex lives, I'd rather not take the risk. I feel very strongly about this. To me, it's worth the money.

    This is not a naive or ignorant concern of mine. It is a very real one. First I heard first hand stories about adversely affected sex lives, then I followed up by seeing if there's medical research that backs up their stories of personal experiences. It's true.

    I can provide you with many links to research and medical studies on the damage that is done the pudendal nerve from vaginal delivery.
     
    #15 petite, May 23, 2010
    Last edited: May 23, 2010
  16. B_Mademoiselle Rouge

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    Tasha, my c-section scar is probably 5 maybe 6 inches.

    To the original poster: I've never been able to get more than 4 of his fingers in there, no matter how much practice we've had. I wanted to be fisted badly, but some of us just aren't made to stretch that much. I've watched thousands of fisting vids and i think you arent going to be getting a super tight vagina even with Kegels if you do fisting on a regular basis. It's one thing to fist like once a month and then she Kegels down to a smaller size. But anytime you take something that size very often you aren't going to be able to shrink back down as if you are taking it every now and again.

    Women who can easily be fisted without much effort will probably never be down to a small size where it could be difficult to be fisted with all the kegeling in the world. Unless she begins to have a medical issue like vaginismus or something.

    You are wanting best of both worlds. Just ask yourself if you could take a mans fist up your ass and did it regularly could you be fucked in the ass and have it be "naturally" tight without having to clamp down your muscles the entire time?
     
  17. D_Sparroe Spongecaques

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    It isnt just midwives that prefer vaginal delivery but consultants as well as a c section is extrmely dangerous and massive in terms of a surgical procedure.Both for mother and baby.

    Elective sections are available here in Blighty as well but unless there is a vaild reason it isnt an option...well not unless the patient is a celeb (though obviously it's to do with £ signs i believe).

    I am aghast that a consultant will perform a c section so a patient doesnt have their sex life affected:eek: Still £/$ signs are important to some (this isnt a dig at you btw,just my personal opinon re:some consultants).
    I didnt actually say you had poor muscle control but you did mention it in regards to why you might prefer an elective section...Pelvic Floor exercises do a power of good if done asap both b4 and after delivery.

    C sections are far more dangerous than a vag deliveryand should only be done if the patient is in danger.

    If your hips are that small and fragile your consultant will mention a section before you do.Probably offer you a pelvic girdle as well and more than likely you'll be admitted in the beginning of your 3rd trimester if not before.

    I once had a patient who was 4ft8 and skinny as a rake with a septic hip as she was admitted from 18 weeks as she needed total bedrest...poor woman.She was going potty through boredom and woirry as well i should think.Still baby was born fit and healthy at a good 7lbs which was FAB for patient in question:smile:

    No need for the links ta as i am aware of it but i still maintain a c section isnt a breeze or a piece of cake as some folks think they are but major surgery and a forever weakened womb/abdomen.

    Anyway Miss Petite,good luck,i can't wait for your little bundle to be here so we can see if you get a pink or a blue :smile:
     
    #17 D_Sparroe Spongecaques, May 23, 2010
    Last edited: May 23, 2010
  18. D_Sparroe Spongecaques

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    I was refering to the size on surgery day as it is clamped open after the incision.They do shrink once the body gets back to as normal as poss but even a 5-6 inch scar is smaller than an episiotomy scar.
     
  19. HiddenLacey

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    Always be prepared for the birth plan to go right out of the window.In 13 years less than 5% of my patients have had the birth they planned right down to the letter.Epidurals/spinal block are not as bad as people think otherwise they wouldnt be widely used.

    I hope my comments are read the way i intended and not sarcastic or patronising:smile:[/QUOTE]

    Naw I didn't take it bad. I'm not planning on babies for awhile. I was just telling petite what I wanted. I worked in an ob/gyn clinic for three years and I got to read everything that went on. I already understand labor is as unpredictiable as a twister. I know what I want but I know it might not go that way. :biggrin1: I always like hearing what you have to say. You know your stuff!
     
  20. B_Mademoiselle Rouge

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    I was not fit for birthing, i knew this my entire adult life, but the Gyn wants to not have another surgery without "trying to let her birth" on his record. I would have opted for a c-section if i had the choice. I had 33 hours of grueling unproductive labor with tons of vaginal bleeding going on at the same time. But since my baby didn't show any signs of stress i was allowed (more like made to) go on for many more hours. By the time i got to the surgery, i was so exhausted, bled a lot and my uterus wouldn't contract to stop the bleeding where the placenta was removed. I was then put under general anaesthesia and almost had a hysterectomy at 21 years old because i bled out 1,200 cc's of blood.

    I scared the doctors. But if i had my way i would have trusted my own instict and knew that even a 6 pound baby was in no way going to fit. They had to work hard to get her back out of my pelvis via the c-section.

    I knew i couldnt give birth. But i didn't have much choice at the time but to trust the doctors i was seeing. They really didn't think much of my opinion or worries because they've seen physically smaller women have huge babies. Since they were considering the size of the pelvis from the inside on even seemingly tiny women, they assumed mine had to be bigger right? Wrong. Mine is even smaller, even if i'm of normal stature. I don't think choosing a c-section for purely cosmetic reasons is safe.

    For people like me, my child and i would have died many years ago without modern medicine. I'm glad i ultimately had a c-section. I wish i didnt have to endure the days of exhausting labor and bleeding beforehand. All of this is why i won't have another child.

    The c-section is no picnic in the park and the numbness i had post-section was in the bladder area and over in the bikini incision. Within a couple of months i had full sensation back. No problems with vaginal or clitoral sensation the entire time. I know many others who had a c-section and only one of them had issues (which was a post c-section incision infection)

    The risks might be higher than compared to a normal, noncomplicated vaginal birth. But people like me don't have normal uncomplicated vaginal births. And if we have trouble fitting regular gynecological instruments, or tear with two finger exams in the docs office, we are likely to need several cuts to deliver vaginally and tear even beyond that. The nerve risks alone for the vaginal tearing/cutting is immense. I'd rather be able to sit on my bottom again and enjoy sex the way i always remembered. We were allowed to have sex 2 weeks post op. No waiting 6 weeks if you don't want to. Because things aren't nearly as messed up when the uterus is cut versus the vaginal/rectal fascial tissue.
     
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