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Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Bariton, Nov 23, 2005.
Washingtonpost: Vice President for Torture.
A new way to fight terrorism?
Wow, I hadn't read that yet. I hope this gets all the press it deserves, these fucking bastards go far beyond the usual filth of the political game. We are definitely in a bad situation of having to choose the lesser of the evils, but who in their right mind believes that this administration is anything but horrific and putrid now? Only the incredibly daft. To come out and publicly promote torture on a governmental level is absurd. We can't "fight terrorism" by becomming even worse, it just doesn't work like that. Hey, if we weren't such fuck-offs, maybe those people wouldn't want to kill us so badly. This is a disgrace to everything I used to believe about our country. I hope cheney rots in Hell.
We're just civilized to death.
So, I take it that being "over civilized"....means it's ok to torture people?
Why is something big like...the VP being pro-torture all the way on page A18? Cheney should be on the front page with horns and a pitchfork...with Bush behind him dressed as the easter bunny.
This must be an example of the "compassionate conservatism" I heard so much about during the campaign in '04.
Does that mean we get to torture the VP right back after Junior's administration is over? And has anyone ever noticed Dubya's resemblance to Dan Quayle? Just a thought...
I just cannot figure out why this kind of crap surprises anyone... but then again, I have The Washington Post delivered to my door every morning, and see all this every day.
What really leaves me dumbfounded is that the current administration, and the current supreme court, have this amazing reading disorder where, when it is to their advantage, they somehow see the word "except" in the Constitution and US Code, where it does not actually exist... and no one calls them on it. Example, with the reading disorder kicking in where there are italics: 14th Amendment, US Constitution - All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States, and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. Except if this equal protection is inconvenient, or if that citizen does not conform to your narrow world view. If so, you may at your discretion, disregard this amendment.
Another example is the "Full faith and credit" clause of the Constitution, which is effectively dismantled by the DOMA. Or the "Patriot Act", which dismantles the "Law of the Land" clause of Article VI, the peaceable assembly clause of amendment 1, entire amendment IV, entire amendment V, entire amendment VI, entire amendment X, and entire amendment XIV. Or whatever "emergency measures" were taken to give Halliburton the no-bid federal contract for Iraq reconstruction, in direct and explicit violation of US Code... folks the list goes on and on.
That Cheney supports whatever he supports (he just had a flash of that "except" thing) should not surprise anyone who glances at the news once a month or so. I'm not being a "gloom and doom alarmist" when I say that this administration has put us on a terribly slippery slope. Burying your head in the sand, and insisting that everything they do is in our best interest... well, when you finally realize what's going on, I'll be saying "told ya so."
You know, I think the same thing to myself. But then I think, what good is that going to do us if the damage done becomes irreversible?
That's why I keep trying to encourage anyone who will listen to help nip this stuff in the bud. Instead of just sitting back and saying "it won't do any good..." WRITE to your local, state, and federal lawmakers. Don't tell them how you feel. Keep in mind that you pay their salaries, so you are the boss. You simply tell them "You will vote no on that bill. It is unconstitutional." Of course, they send you some sappy "thanks for your support" form letter. Hey, being politically active is actually WORK... but it is worth it. You have to be persistent. If enough people actually did this, it WOULD have an effect.
"Mr. Davis, as a taxpayer and constituent, I am hereby instructing you to vote against the renewal of the so-called "Patriot Act" in its current form, or any form without major revisions. As it stands, many of the provisions in the Patriot Act violate several Constitutional Amendments, and as such, cannot legally be incorporated into any portion of the US Code."
My senators and representatives have never met me, but know me pretty well by now. We correspond often, with them usually telling me some bullshit answer - but I don't back down. Every citizen needs to demand a return to Constitutional law, but it just won't happen. Then everyone will wonder how in the world they suddenly have no rights whatsoever. Sigh.
Letter-writing is certainly our right, and unquestionably a good thing to do, but for my part I doubt that it actually moves politicians very often. I'd say the best shot is activist or protest organizations along the civil rights/anti-war/ACT-UP etc etc etc model. I think if more people were organized into grassroots action-oriented groups, we might get the political establishment to take notice and maybe even change some things.
Keep in mind that Cheney or his flacks will respond something like this: "This administration does not condone torture."
Which, cosmetically, is true. But what it doesn't tell you is that Cheney, like AG Abu Gonzalez, supports a narrowing of the definition of torture so that previously verboten interrogation techniques become acceptable. Voila!
Regardless, we can quibble all we want about defintions and acceptable interrogation techniques. The Attorney General of the United States advised the President of the United States that protections for prisoners under the Geneva Conventions do not apply if the President does not believe they apply.
Here's hoping he doesn't make any of us a prisoner.
Matthew, you miss my point. What I'm trying to say is that one or three letters don't influence politicians. If either of your senators or any of your representatives was receive thousands of letters each day, he would sit up and take notice. That's also why I don't accept the standard form letter from any of my Sen.s or Rep.s; if they don't respond directly to my specific question or comment, they hear from me again - and I tell them point blank: "You did not address my concerns in your reply. Please do not use your standard form letter to reply to me concerning this issue."
SpeedoGuy, that is EXACTLY what I was talking about in my previous post. These guys imagine exceptions to the law when it is convenient for them to do so. The neo-cons shredded Clinton for saying "that depends on what the definition of 'is' is." But they don't bat an eye when our AG or VP says "that depends on what the meaning of 'torture' is." Our government is in a sad and frightening state, and we still have apologists for them.
Nah, I think he's doing a fine job himself when he thinks about how he actually hooked up with "junior".
I love the way the article ended, although, I doubt it is true.