Vicious Cycles

[Male Bonding etc]

So a group thinks we are getting too exhibitionist and sexually liberated and tries to repress such activities. Then another group whose members feel they are being more and more constrained, rebel with more outrageous behavior and more flaunting of the "norms." The first group feels that things need to be tightened up even more; the second group reacts by escalating their "in your face" behaviors even further. So it goes.

It's not so much the swinging of the pendulum as it is reactions getting more and more extreme.

My suggestion? Try really hard to do what is right for yourself. Live as you feel is most appropriate for you, and ignore or tolerate those who feel differently, even if they are obnoxious and vocal. All the while, make sure your own rights do not get abridged as well as theirs.

 

[RideRocket]

ok

 

[Onslow]

So a group thinks we are getting too exhibitionist and sexually liberated and tries to repress such activities. Then another group whose members feel they are being more and more constrained, rebel with more outrageous behavior and more flaunting of the "norms." The first group feels that things need to be tightened up even more; the second group reacts by escalating their "in your face" behaviors even further. So it goes.

My suggestion? Try really hard to do what is right for yourself. Live as you feel is most appropriate for you, and ignore or tolerate those who feel differently, even if they are obnoxious and vocal. All the while, make sure your own rights do not get abridged as well as theirs.

Who is this group of whom you speak?

As to living as I feel is most appropriate, that landed me in the pokey for a few days. Apparently, stripping naked in the town square and then kissing a cop (on the lips and forcing his lips apart--but I think he may have liked it) is frowned upon in some areas. I have learned my lesson, never go nekkid in the town square.

 

[B_big dirigible]

My suggestion? Try really hard to do what is right for yourself. Live as you feel is most appropriate for you, and ignore or tolerate those who feel differently, even if they are obnoxious and vocal. All the while, make sure your own rights do not get abridged as well as theirs.

So, your prescription is basically a passive form of anarchy. Established society, with customs and laws, is negligible. Yes?

Social norms constitute a mirror, which moves slowly with time. Your description in paragraph 1 is of groups on either side of that mirror. The two groups are, in most functional ways, equivalent. Both are every bit as annoying to everyone else. Hence the mirror analogy.

Over-reactions, even to perceived grievances, are not a good idea. When that reaches its extreme form, it's indistinguishable from a vendetta society - one of the things established society is meant to prevent.

 

[B_Hickboy]

I'm being chased by vampire leprechauns.

 

[Onslow]

I'm being chased by vampire leprechauns.

I love leprechauns--especially those that bowl.

 

[B_Hickboy]

This one said something about needing to find more snakes for somebody named Patrick to kill.

 

[Male Bonding etc]

So, your prescription is basically a passive form of anarchy. Established society, with customs and laws, is negligible. Yes?

I essentially agreed with the rest of your post; so, I didn't quote it.

Regarding a "passive form of anarchy," I am not so sure. I wasn't suggesting a form of governance or lack thereof, but rather a way of living or coping with behavior that seems excessive on either side of that "mirror."

Onslow paraded naked in the town square and forced a kiss on the police officer. Perhaps his nudity should have been ignored, but he crossed a line when he physically disrespected the officer. One has to suspect he was publicly intoxicated, and it is a reasonable supposition that he, in such a state, could pose danger to himself or others.

I don't really think his nudity posed such a threat in and of itself, but if he was going out of his way to expose himself to children, that would surely be considered a problem...

My original intent in starting this thread was not to suggest we dispense with all social expectations or legal constraints against generally agreed upon harmful behavior, nor was it to be boringly pedantic, but it was to suggest that there are vicious cycles that we can chose to exacerbate or perpetuate... or we can chose to take a course that will hopefully deescalate the unnecessary tensions that come up about so many topics we argue here.

Anyway, despite suspicions that I am one of those Libs who never met a Democrat or a Liberal idea he didn't like, I do have some very Libertarian tendencies.

 

[SpeedoGuy]

My suggestion? Try really hard to do what is right for yourself. Live as you feel is most appropriate for you, and ignore or tolerate those who feel differently, even if they are obnoxious and vocal. All the while, make sure your own rights do not get abridged as well as theirs.

I do live my life for myself as much as I can without affecting others. But when one group arrogantly presumes to spend lives and tax dollars attempting to remake the rest of the world in a certain image, I will not remain complicit. I will speak out, agitate, complain, question, deride and ridicule to the best of my ability. To do less is unpatriotic and lazy, in my opinion.

 

[B_spiker067]

I don't mind the vicious cycles per se. I just wish they were about something more important than they usually are. They are usually geared for the simple minded. Sex, god(s), war, Anna Nicole...BFD. Who gives a fuck?

I'm getting sick and tired of mankind. Just fucking die already.

 

[agnslz]

Anyway, despite suspicions that I am one of those Libs who never met a Democrat or a Liberal idea he didn't like, I do have some very Libertarian tendencies.

Very Libertarian tendencies?!:biggrin::tongue:

No really, MBe, I think it is our duty in a free society to let it be known when we don't agree with what others are doing. If that leads to endless arguments about who is right, so be it. It would be foolish to keep quiet about something you don't think is right just to keep things from escalating. I think we are better off when we are challenged and made to see the other person's side, or even just made to see how others are, what they believe in, or how they live.

 

[Male Bonding etc]

No really, MBe, I think it is our duty in a free society to let it be known when we don't agree with what others are doing.

I agree with you, AG. "To sin by silence..." was not what I was suggesting. What I was suggesting was to avoid the escalation that so often takes place.

Take public nudity for example (thanks for the idea Onslow). We are all going to draw our personal lines in different places. For some a guy shirtless on a city street is too much exposure. If someone tells him their feelings, he should be polite, but if he feels that it is good and right to go shirtless he should continue to do so, and the other party should let it go. However, each could choose to escalate the situation. The offended party could start shouting to everyone nearby that this shirtless guy is being obscene. The shirtless guy could decide to grab his crotch to show his disregard for the other person's feelings. The offended could start screaming for the police, and the shirtless guy could yank his pants down and moon the other person.... and so on.

We certainly do not need to tolerate or encourage harmful behavior, but I think we can get a little more "real" about what exactly is harmful and a little more civil when we disagree.