Violence Against Women

michael_3165

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I know this is likely to be a VERY emotive subject and whilst I think this may be appropriate in the women's issues thread I am also mindful that it is actually also very much a men's problem.

In recent times there has been a strong focus on the fact women are getting sexually assaulted on a fairly regular basis and the spread of the "incel" movement online. Whilst I have always sat in the "innocent til proven guilty" camp, we cannot deny that there is a normalisation of assaults against women or an assumption that women are making things up or being untruthful. This is very troublesome for me, particularly as I have young female family members who I know will likely be approached by men in the future in ways that they will find uncomfortable.

I work in a very female dominated industry and therefore I think I have a somewhat sheltered view of the issues women face. I find myself resisting the rhetoric/message that women try to communicate, probably because the information is so uncomfortable that it is easier to avoid. At the same time I know that this is something we all need to face up to; that there is a sinister underbelly in society that almost condones (or at least wilfully ignores) the issues at hand.

I do not know any men who have displayed any misogynistic or aggressive tendencies toward women but maybe that is because I primarily have gay friends. Or I may just be lucky. I have never been given the message that women are inferior, there to be objectified etc and I do not see women in that way. Again, maybe my work environment has led me to a different conclusion to those that work in (for example) construction, legal or other male dominated professions.

I also want to mention that there is a big issue in the gay and lesbian community with domestic violence. I have met a huge number of lesbian couples that have engaged in DV though I do not believe this is given half as much attention as it rightfully should.

So my question is... what is your experience of violence against women? Have you ever done it? Seen it? Had it done against you? How widespread do you think this problem is and what can we do about it, given that many men will see this as a personal attack on who they are. Getting people on side is very hard.
 
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jtheimpaler

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I know this is likely to be a VERY emotive subject and whilst I think this may be appropriate in the women's issues thread I am also mindful that it is actually also very much a men's problem.

In recent times there has been a strong focus on the fact women are getting sexually assaulted on a fairly regular basis and the spread of the "incel" movement online. Whilst I have always sat in the "innocent til proven guilty" camp, we cannot deny that there is a normalisation of assaults against women or an assumption that women are making things up or being untruthful. This is very troublesome for me, particularly as I have young female family members who I know will likely be approached by men in the future in ways that they will find uncomfortable.

I work in a very female dominated industry and therefore I think I have a somewhat sheltered view of the issues women face. I find myself resisting the rhetoric/message that women try to communicate, probably because the information is so uncomfortable that it is easier to avoid. At the same time I know that this is something we all need to face up to; that there is a sinister underbelly in society that almost condones (or at least wilfully ignores) the issues at hand.

I do not know any men who have displayed any misogynistic or aggressive tendencies toward women but maybe that is because I primarily have gay friends. Or I may just be lucky. I have never been given the message that women are inferior, there to be objectified etc and I do not see women in that way. Again, maybe my work environment has led me to a different conclusion to those that work in (for example) construction, legal or other male dominated professions.

I also want to mention that there is a big issue in the gay and lesbian community with domestic violence. I have met a huge number of lesbian couples that have engaged in DV though I do not believe this is given half as much attention as it rightfully should.

So my question is... what is your experience of violence against women? Have you ever done it? Seen it? Had it done against you? How widespread do you think this problem is and what can we do about it, given that many men will see this as a personal attack on who they are. Getting people on side is very hard.

Just because you haven’t seen something doesn’t mean it does not exist. Your suggestion that gay men by virtue of their sexual preference aren’t misogynistic or aggressive towards women I believe is deeply flawed, and further stating that because you haven’t seen any of your friends be misogynistic or aggressive towards a woman does not mean they aren’t, it simply means you have not seen it.
A lot of domestic abuse takes place behind closed doors, and as the saying goes we don’t know everything about what goes on in people’s private lives.
If you want to have a serious conversation about violence toward women, I think you owe the subject a bit more gravitas than to throw in some of the naive remarks that you have done. None of us know people who abuse… until we do.
 

Sagittarius84

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So my question is... what is your experience of violence against women? Have you ever done it? Seen it? Had it done against you?
It is something that I've grown up to know and identify the consequences of, but as you alluded to earlier, I've never actually seen it first hand nor have I ever perpetrated it.
How widespread do you think this problem is and what can we do about it, given that many men will see this as a personal attack on who they are.
I think men whom take an assessment of violence against women as a personal attack are simply hit dogs hollering.
What I will say however, is much like previous answer, my and I imagine a lot of men's direct experience with gendered violence on an open and public basis is less of men hurting women, and more of girls/women being allowed, if not all out empowered to utilize violence against boys/men for less than self defense(with no expectation of retribution)...so a lot of the pushback may stem from that.
 
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Sagittarius84

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I also think violence against women(specifically in 1st World countries/West) is more of an issue designed to incite emotional reaction than an issue taken in earnest. Whereas violence against men can almost always be reasoned back to their actions/words immediately prior, women seem to get an immediate benefit of the doubt as per what may have initiated said violence in the 1st place.
Plus because of statistics already known as well as the tendency for men not to report domestic violence, you really cannot have a discussion about violence against women without first establishing that men are more likely to be victims of violence overall and that lesbian relationships are abound with abuse without a penis in the vicinity.
Establish those foundations as the basis of the condo and I suspect men will take it more seriously.
 
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deleted5199391

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I live in Italy, where violence against women is one of the lowest in the world.
Nowadays I see very little sexism towards them, but I also live in a developed place.
Unfortunately I can't say the same for the whole country, but this is true also for men, even if for different matters.
I am not gender conforming, so I am quite safe from any kind of social trap related to gender.

Since I was very interested in the subject I studied it for years. Long story short, I was super sad when I discovered that our left is doing fear mongering about this theme (I am mostly a leftist).
Same like far right does with immigrants.
 

Ms.M

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I have friends and family who have survived it, as have I. What I lived through was pretty minor, especially when compared to some others. They survived broken bones, jewelry torn from piercings, having to wear wigs because of being dragged by their hair which was then ripped from their scalp, and more. None of us talk about it much. Definitely not in some casual conversation with random people. Absolutely not something we discuss with colleagues. The people I know, including myself are from massively varied backgrounds, ethnic groups, and cultures. One from Sudan, the rest within the USA. It's treated fairly similarly to those I know who survived sexual assault. It happens significantly more than it is talked about, because in many cases little to nothing will be done about it.

I think it is more common than people think, because I, with moderately sized to small, but varied social circles know numerous survivors of violence. Beatings and sexual assault. Pathetic how an awful and genuine issue like this, within a supposed "Safe Space" is being turned into some political group vs other political group bullshit and what not.

Edit: I am fully aware of and acknowledge that men can and are also victims of violence. I am fully aware of and acknowledge that it is an issue that needs addressed too. However that is not the topic of this particular thread, so I am trying to stay on topic.
 
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Tight_N_Juicy

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I'm actually the only woman I know who hasn't been physically abused by a partner, and I have been physically assaulted by more than one man in my life. I've been punched by men and I've been sexually assaulted more than once. I've told at least one of those stories here in the past.

I can't say a majority of men I know have been abused by partners who were women. I realize people don't always disclose their experiences, so I acknowledge that I may be incorrect.

And I'm not saying a majority of men are abusive, but I do still know that I'm the only woman I know in my personal life who's never been in a physically abusive relationship with a man. So, take from that what you will.
 

MickeyLee

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Hey, y'all...

Gonna shift this thread over to Relationships. Since the OP is more interested in how men experience violence against women, WI is a poor fit.

Safe Space seems to have been chosen to limit how participants might reply.
 
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Sagittarius84

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Here's my thoughts on a solution for violence against women at least in the West/1st World...two constants' existence need to be unpacked and reconciled. 1st is that in these modern times the most dangerous thing to a woman's life and limb is not random violence or smoking, cancer, or riding without a seat belt, it's their domestic partner...2nd is that largely unchanged from the Old World and times past, women still show an overwhelming romantic/sexual preference for men that are bigger, stronger, more socioeconomically established, and or powerful/influential(ironically just about all the tools often utilized by abusive.men to keep women in line and silent).
You can't really work out a solution to the violence males enact upon their female partners without de incentivizing violence as a tool men should acquire in some manner to be attractive to women...and unfortunately the capacity and or propensity for violence is very attractive for women seeking a protective archetype.
 

Tight_N_Juicy

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Here's my thoughts on a solution for violence against women at least in the West/1st World...two constants' existence need to be unpacked and reconciled. 1st is that in these modern times the most dangerous thing to a woman's life and limb is not random violence or smoking, cancer, or riding without a seat belt, it's their domestic partner...2nd is that largely unchanged from the Old World and times past, women still show an overwhelming romantic/sexual preference for men that are bigger, stronger, more socioeconomically established, and or powerful/influential(ironically just about all the tools often utilized by abusive.men to keep women in line and silent).
You can't really work out a solution to the violence males enact upon their female partners without de incentivizing violence as a tool men should acquire in some manner to be attractive to women...and unfortunately the capacity and or propensity for violence is very attractive for women seeking a protective archetype.

This is a pile.

Small, insecure men abuse too. Poor men, "losers"... There's a wide range of types of people who are willing to hit their partners. This goes for all genders but we're focusing on women in this thread so I'll stay focused on that. Recall how many women I know who've been abused or assaulted by their partners from my post earlier? I know most of the men in those relationships too. Most of them no taller than 5' 7" (where I'm from most of the community is very short) and had the build of someone who's smoked more than their fair share of shards. My anecdotes aren't proof of anything scientific, but it is an example of the fact that it's not one type of man who abuses.

You're blaming women for being attracted to who they're attracted to rather than the abusers. Suggesting that a man is more likely to be abusive towards women because he's physically attractive(which is subjective anyway)/large, and successful is just ridiculous. And whether or not you meant to or realize it, that's what you did here.
Your "solution" is for women to change their preferences (which wouldn't help anyway) because it's *her* fault for wanting a big stwong manly whatever... Bullshit.

Someone said earlier in the thread: no one knows an abuser, until they do.
 

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I think the thread should be called "abusive men and the wide range of people they're willing to assault". Because I mean, obviously some of you can't talk about it without mentioning the fact that men are victimized as well.. you know who does the vast majority of physical violence? Against women And men statistically? MEN. Yes, women can also be abusive. They still are not the majority of offenders according to the information we have. And that information is likely inaccurate because men are FAR less likely to report an assault/abusive partner in a relationship because of what? Toxic masculinity. Men don't report because they think it emasculates them, which is a standard they mostly hold themselves to. Macho bullshit isn't something you can blame women for, that's all on your fellow men. Why? Men have always had more control in society generally. Very few cultures have actually been egalitarian or had mostly women in power. In the US? Yeah, women have more rights than we used to but don't make me laugh by acting like men don't still hold most of the power and set the social climate. We've taken baby steps towards actual equality in this country.

So don't come at me all "but men are victims of violence too!" Yeah. I know. And the ones doing the violence in most cases are other men. Hold each other accountable, and if you're a victim of abuse and the abuser is a woman don't avoid reporting it because you think it makes you look like less of a man.

Still: all the women I know have been abused by a partner or assaulted by a man at least once in their life. I cannot say the same about every man I know.
 

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How much domestic violence is learned behaviour? Son sees Dad give Mum a backhander for whatever reason and as the hits continue over the years this becomes normalised as the son grows older.

It's like the cycle of child sexual abuse that sometimes happens except in cases of domestic violence it's not the abused who becomes the abuser but the observer who 'learns' that this is acceptable and continues that cycle.
 

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How much domestic violence is learned behaviour? Son sees Dad give Mum a backhander for whatever reason and as the hits continue over the years this becomes normalised as the son grows older.

It's like the cycle of child sexual abuse that sometimes happens except in cases of domestic violence it's not the abused who becomes the abuser but the observer who 'learns' that this is acceptable and continues that cycle.
I always wonder why this is the default example people refer to specifically when it comes to boys and learned violence, when statistically the 1st and most prevelant violent encounters would be from mother to son.
Not trying to pick on you but....the ease with which this example is trotted out is part of the reason why I think a lot of the discussion about partnered violence against women in the west isn't really done in good faith, but rather to advance an agenda. Obviously final accountability lies with the purported aggressor, but I think the "learned behavior" argument takes a different tone when the example is less of patriarchal abuse of spouse and more unchecked feminine aggression against spouse and child.
 
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Haggard_Wisdom

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I always wonder why this is the default example people refer to specifically when it comes to boys and learned violence, when statistically the 1st and most prevelant violent encounters would be from mother to son.
Not trying to pick on you but....the ease with which this example is trotted out is part of the reason why I think a lot of the discussion about partnered violence against women in the west isn't really done in good faith, but rather to advance an agenda. Obviously final accountability lies with the purported aggressor, but I think the "learned behavior" argument takes a different tone when the example is less of patriarchal abuse of spouse and more unchecked feminine aggression against spouse and child.

You're right in that domestic violence as a problem is a lot wider in scale than just male on female violence. Sons and daughters obviously learn from both parents and this covers the good and the bad and the ugly sides of our behaviour.
 

Sagittarius84

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And maybe I'm contributing to a distracting argument because domestic violence is a specific subset with its own variables in play. In the case of general violence against women my two questions are: is the physical violence withstood a function of being female, or simply being smaller and weaker on average?; and with the contingent of sexual violence and those men that engage in it rarely having just a single victim, is it possible that women project their experiences at the hands of the very few as a judgement of the non offending, non facilitating many?