wanna work for a living? well, the government says FUCK YOU

davidjh7

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DC_DEEP said:
Right-o, SG. Believe it or not, the reasoning that they put forth for these tax cuts for the upper echelon is "with a small tax break, they will spend more, putting more money back into the dynamic economy, which will create jobs and provide more opportunities for those in the lower echelons." Except the big problem with that theory is: Duh, how do you think they stay in the upper echelons, by getting rid of the money they have? I seriously doubt that paying less in taxes is going to affect the actual spending habits of your average millionaire. Those tax breaks, in what seems logical to me, actually do the opposite of the intent - less money into the economy. Does anyone honestly believe that if Derek Jeter or Bill Gates paid $80,000 less in taxes this year that either one would automatically spend $80,000 more? No, his accountant simply puts that additional $80,000 into his portfolio.

And for those who don't know, $170,000 is BASE PAY. Before perks. You really should look it up to know what's going on with congressional pay. Especially what taxes they (or don't) pay, their health care coverage, and their housing allowances... plus office operating expenses, entertainment allowances, travel benefits... there's a pretty long list. And that doesn't even take into consideration the ones who are in tight with deep-pocketed lobbyists.

Cadet, I don't know your age or location, but your post tells me volumes about you. Not so long ago, I was a public school teacher, making a whopping 18K first year, 20k second year (and that only because there was some legislation during my first year). It was TOUGH. The hours were long... including in-class time, plus out-of-class preparation, it was about 12 to 14 hours a day. On that little pay, I could barely pay rent and utilities, let alone sock away a sizeable savings account. When I wanted to go back to school, I discovered that (???) due to my staggeringly huge income, I did not qualify for financial aid. I didn't have time to work a second job. I couldn't just quit work and go to school full time. None of the colleges nearby offered the post-grad classes I needed at night... all the night classes were for undergraduate programs. So, Cadet, how would you suggest someone in that situation move up in the world?

If any of you have actually known many rich people, you will learn that they tend to be some of the cheapest bastards on the planet. They HANG ON TO THIER MONEY FIERCLY!! that's why they remain rich. The only send money to gain power and prestige, so they can get more money. If they want something, they use their power and prestige tof rce the POOR t pay for it. I realize I will likely get flamed for this statement, but I have personally witnessed it over and over again. There is an old saying---rich people ARE different from you and me--they have more money (and make DAMNED sure it stays that way).
 

DC_DEEP

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SomeGuyOverThere said:
Actually it is doubtful that we can make a difference, since rather a lot of people actually ike the status quo - i.e. the people with money.

The people with no money who should not like the status quo, tend* to be ignorant through lack of education, and so fail to grasp their predicament and don't get angry in the right way or have any interest in taking action about a situation they don't or don't want to comprehend.

So the people who are a portion are a portion of the middle class, and educated/naturally intelligent lower class people, while the majority either don't know and don't care or do know and actively try to cling desperatly to the status quo which makes other people's lives so miserable and theirs so pleasent.


Now, the further problem is that whenever a bunch of visionaries do make a difference, they have a habbit of being replaced by either carbon copies of the people they deposed (ANC, South Africa), or absolute tyrants (Stalin, USSR).

This is because basically, power attracts assholes like flies to shit. If a group of non-assholes depose a group of assholes, assholes will worm their way in and endear themselves to the non-assholes, and as soon as the non assholes die, or present an oppertunity for succession, the asshole steps in from the wings and assumes power. Then we're back to square one - being ruled by assholes.

Now, the thing is that only assholes are that slimy, that power obsessed and that confident to worm their way to the top, while the decent people are usually pretty happy with their lot in life, it's the asshole that ascends to the top of the shit-heap (read: "Government") and becomes head asshole. Then, the decent people moan and groan about the asshole running the country, but if they vote him out, they just get another asshole, because at that level of the shit-heap, there are only assholes, since assholes are the only people asshole-y enough to climb the ladder and kick it away afterwards. Decent people are too... decent to fight dirty in order to ascend to the top.


*highlighting this now so that I don't get a mouthfull for calling all poor people stupid. I'm not, I'm calling most poor people stupid.
Some good points, and a lot of near-misses. You have to keep in mind that the only way a person "takes power" is that enough people GIVE them power.

Yes, the rich are mostly happy with the status quo, would be even happier if the status got a little quo-er in their favor. Keep in mind, though, the percentages in the wealth domain. The rich may control a huge percentage of money, but they are a tiny percentage of the population. It's defeatist attitudes that prevent more sharing-the-wealth. I was pointing out earlier that the trickle-down theory just will not work, because when tax cuts create a trickle, the rich are there with buckets to catch it. Until a majority of our population stops saying "<sigh> it'll never work, we will just have to stay miserable" then, of course, we will.
 

ruinean

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One of the earliest realizations I came to in business school was that we have a party in this nation that sees the worker not as a human being with needs, dignity, or a family to raise, or having any worth outside their utility as labor, a business input that MUST under all circumstances be reduced in cost in order to augment their own classes wealth.

Care to guess which party it is?

It is the party of class warfare, that uses the propaganda tactics of the Third Reich to bamboozle millions into voting against their own economic interests. They use sophisticated logic traps and ironically the greed of the masses against themselves. Circular logic and NASCAR redneck pride, what is a patriot to do? For my own part I plan to vacate the USA early next year, because I love America, but this nation I live in is NOT the America I love.
 

DC_DEEP

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ruinean said:
...
It is the party of class warfare, that uses the propaganda tactics of the Third Reich to bamboozle millions into voting against their own economic interests. They use sophisticated logic traps and ironically the greed of the masses against themselves. Circular logic and NASCAR redneck pride, what is a patriot to do? For my own part I plan to vacate the USA early next year, because I love America, but this nation I live in is NOT the America I love.
Correct, but don't fool yourself into thinking that the "other party" is exceptionally altruistic. If you cut through all the rhetoric and the lies they tell to manipulate you, the democratic party and the republican party are not all that different. Just different window dressing.

You are correct about the propaganda tactics and the bamboozling. I know it's not actually perfectly statistically correct, but I love the old saying "Just remember, half the population is below average intelligence." The politicians don't have to expend much to bamboozle a majority. I'm beginning to wonder just how few of us there are that actually see through the smoke and mirrors?
 

SomeGuyOverThere

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DC_DEEP said:
Some good points, and a lot of near-misses. You have to keep in mind that the only way a person "takes power" is that enough people GIVE them power.

Yeah, but given the chocie between Smilieing-Asshole- from the Asshole Party and Smilieing-AssHole-2 from the New Asshole Party, both running for Head Asshole of the Shitheap, does it really matter? :tongue:
 

DC_DEEP

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SomeGuyOverThere said:
Yeah, but given the chocie between Smilieing-Asshole- from the Asshole Party and Smilieing-AssHole-2 from the New Asshole Party, both running for Head Asshole of the Shitheap, does it really matter? :tongue:
Hehehe, well, my haggis-munching friend, therein lies the entire problem. There are alternatives, but less than 1% of the population is willing to explore them.

P. S. My good friend who lives in Edinburgh is coming to visit me in September. I can't wait, he's such a handsome lad!
 

cucky boy

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Few people other than the youngest workers make only the minimum wage. and economic statistics show that even those workers substantively increase their earnings after two years of employment.

Anyone jealous of a congressman's salary should run for the job, although I wouldn't want to do it myself.

The rich are doing you a favor by giving you something to work toward harder. I've studied poverty and learned something - that I don't like it.
 

viking1

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Few people other than the youngest workers make only the minimum wage. and economic statistics show that even those workers substantively increase their earnings after two years of employment.

Anyone jealous of a congressman's salary should run for the job, although I wouldn't want to do it myself.

The rich are doing you a favor by giving you something to work toward harder. I've studied poverty and learned something - that I don't like it.

Yeah, right. The rich ain't doing nothing but getting richer at my expense...