War in Iran? Americans please tell your president to go and FUCK himself!!!

Phil Ayesho

Superior Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2008
Posts
6,189
Media
0
Likes
2,792
Points
333
Location
San Diego
Sexuality
69% Straight, 31% Gay
Gender
Male
This is a tired argument. There is a long history of people doing terrible things, and of people seeking to justify or explain these things through a concept of religion or their faith. But just because people try to explain or justify actions in this way does not mean that faith or religion supports violence.

That evil/Satan exists cannot be doubted; that evil/Satan is not everywhere is also beyond doubt, and this realisation leads to an awareness of God as the antithesis of Satan. They are opposites, not equivalents.

Bullshit.

Positive and negative are a dualistic PAIR. They do not exist independently of each other. They are simply either end of a single yardstick.

If there is ONE creator God then HE dreamed up and made manifest ALL forms of evil.
He can not escape responsibility for his creation.


And, sorry... but men do evil in a lot of ways... there ARE evil men... but religion is the only thing that convinces GOOD men that doing evil things is morally defensible.


The bible is nothing but a story of how 10 simple rules were handed down...and then a thousand pages of justifications for violating those rules.


Religion IS evil incarnate. Its appeals to the LOWEST in human nature... fear of death, the selfish wish to live forever, the narcissism of thinking a creator God is concerned with YOUR feelings, and the dehumanization of anyone different from you...


If I were Satan... I would absolutely have invented religion, first thing.
...Co-opt the 'high ground' to wicked purpose...
Split people into mutually homicidal sects... make them feel perpetually sinful and in need of redemption...

Yeah... religion is the perfect franchise for the distribution of evil.
 

Notaguru2

Experimental Member
Joined
May 20, 2008
Posts
1,519
Media
0
Likes
10
Points
123
Location
Charleston, SC
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
WAR IN IRAN :mad:

They've been planning it for years and no doubt, it will probably happen soon.

I'm wondering what disaster will occur to convince the US people that it is neccessary.
I'm wondering how the Iraq war has made USA a safer place to live
I thought the USA was heading for economic disaster, how can they afford another war?

The only winners from wars are banks, weapons manufacturers, oil companies and other corporations (and polititians with intimate ties to them!)

Everyone else is a loser!

I hope that the Americans see sense this time!


I wouldn't really worry yourself about it. We're dead broke. Our national debt is racing to $10T and Iraq is bankrupting us without support from our allies. We economically can't afford it.

It would help things out too if YOUR prez would stfu as well.
 

Phil Ayesho

Superior Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2008
Posts
6,189
Media
0
Likes
2,792
Points
333
Location
San Diego
Sexuality
69% Straight, 31% Gay
Gender
Male
Iran has the single largest un tapped pool of oil readily available.

We went in because Wolfowitz conned the pres into thinking 'liberating" that oil would pay for the war... enrich his oily friends, and would relieve the severe recession the US was in in 2000-2002.


Turns out though, that sabotaging oil production is the easiest thing for insurgent to do.

The contractors and mercenaries in Iraq? They are there to get the oil flowing... and in 6 years they have not managed to pull that off.

Funny how the press never reports at all about the oil fields and their lack of production....
 

Stretch

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Posts
2,421
Media
54
Likes
3,051
Points
443
Location
Vienna (Austria)
Verification
View
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
Bullshit.

Positive and negative are a dualistic PAIR. They do not exist independently of each other. They are simply either end of a single yardstick.

If there is ONE creator God then HE dreamed up and made manifest ALL forms of evil.
He can not escape responsibility for his creation.


And, sorry... but men do evil in a lot of ways... there ARE evil men... but religion is the only thing that convinces GOOD men that doing evil things is morally defensible.


The bible is nothing but a story of how 10 simple rules were handed down...and then a thousand pages of justifications for violating those rules.


Religion IS evil incarnate. Its appeals to the LOWEST in human nature... fear of death, the selfish wish to live forever, the narcissism of thinking a creator God is concerned with YOUR feelings, and the dehumanization of anyone different from you...


If I were Satan... I would absolutely have invented religion, first thing.
...Co-opt the 'high ground' to wicked purpose...
Split people into mutually homicidal sects... make them feel perpetually sinful and in need of redemption...

Yeah... religion is the perfect franchise for the distribution of evil.

Couldn't have said it better myself

Does anyone else find it amusing to have an intense political discussion and then be able to click the post author's name and see his penis? Weird combination of forum/topic here.

lol...true. You're right, but you do realize that you don't have to click the author's name and see his penis don't you?

Iran has the single largest un tapped pool of oil readily available.

We went in because Wolfowitz conned the pres into thinking 'liberating" that oil would pay for the war... enrich his oily friends, and would relieve the severe recession the US was in in 2000-2002.


Turns out though, that sabotaging oil production is the easiest thing for insurgent to do.

The contractors and mercenaries in Iraq? They are there to get the oil flowing... and in 6 years they have not managed to pull that off.

Funny how the press never reports at all about the oil fields and their lack of production....

I wouldn't give Bush that much credit. I don't think he's at all responsible for what's happened under his presidency. Sad but true. The agenda was set and carried out by Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld and the group of neoconservatives who either co-authored or signed onto the "Project for a New American Century" I think, maybe, in the last year or two he might of caught on to what's been done in his name, but I wouldn't even assume that.
 

Phil Ayesho

Superior Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2008
Posts
6,189
Media
0
Likes
2,792
Points
333
Location
San Diego
Sexuality
69% Straight, 31% Gay
Gender
Male
I wouldn't give Bush that much credit. I don't think he's at all responsible for what's happened under his presidency. Sad but true. The agenda was set and carried out by Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld and the group of neoconservatives who either co-authored or signed onto the "Project for a New American Century" I think, maybe, in the last year or two he might of caught on to what's been done in his name, but I wouldn't even assume that.

I disagree...
The captain of a ship is entirely and absolutely responsible for the actions the men under his command.

Bush is either criminally responsible...or criminally negligent..

Either way, he's a criminal.
 

Deno

Cherished Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Posts
4,631
Media
1
Likes
429
Points
303
Sexuality
No Response
I'm no Bush supporter but honestly calling our president a criminal is just crazy. Even though he is the commander in chief that does not make him singularly responsible for all thats gone on in Iraq. And how the damn finger of judgment gets pointed at our country's leader is just inconceivable. Who is trying to bring other countries leaders into the same category.Leaders of China, Iran, Africa, India, who is calling them criminals. Your talking about the person who choose to make all the choices for all Americans. The person Americans voted into this position. If you look back at all the decisions that US presidents had to make and compare them to Bush he's not that bad of a guy. I hate George W. and am gland his term is almost up. But sometimes you people speak like idiots yourselves.

Where do you see sectarian violence allowed by our leader. Where do you see villages of people slain by the command of our leader. Where do you see gay teenagers ordered to death. Where do you see one religious sect separated for genocide by our leaders. People all over call on the US because of our death penalty why isn't there a big stink over other countries way of handling judgment. Cutting off limbs as punishment. Killing not just the accused but his entire family. Raping women and children and then mutilating the bodies. Mass graves. I get so sick and tired of people who think them selves intelligent making such a big deal over a minor leader when there is so much evil in the world. No wonder foreigners can call us infidels when Americans own say shit like this.
 

SteveHd

Sexy Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Posts
3,678
Media
0
Likes
79
Points
183
Location
Daytona
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
Deno, thank you.

I likewise have a negative view of Bush but I bristle when someone calls him a "criminal".
 

SpeedoGuy

Sexy Member
Joined
May 18, 2004
Posts
4,166
Media
7
Likes
41
Points
258
Age
60
Location
Pacific Northwest, USA
Sexuality
99% Straight, 1% Gay
Gender
Male
I'd agree that GWB's misdeeds don't equate to that of historical genocidal tyrants. I don't believe that he intended for hundreds of thousands to die during his foreign adventures but die they still did. If a president can be impeached over perjury related to a blow job there's ample reason to remove this clown from office as well.
 

jason_els

<img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi
Joined
Dec 16, 2004
Posts
10,228
Media
0
Likes
163
Points
193
Location
Warwick, NY, USA
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
I believe George Bush is a criminal.

He has usurped the constitutional guarantees of habeas corpus by holding American citizens indefinitely without judicial review.

He has usurped the constitutional guarantees of free speech by denying lawful citizens the right to peaceably assemble and exercise their freedom of speech in public areas.

He has waged unlawful war against a nation which he knew posed no threat to American security and presented false testimony to the United States Congress to effect authorization for that war.

He has usurped the constitutional guarantees against unreasonable search and seizure by authorizing the warrantless electronic surveillance program.

He has usurped American treaties authorized by the Senate against transporting people to foreign states where those people stood a reasonable chance of being subject to torture.

He has permitted or was party to revealing the covert activities of a United States intelligence agency program which had not been lawfully declassified, placing the program and the agents in jeopardy. This is a felony under US Code, the second highest law of the land.

The buck stops on the desk of George W. Bush. Either he was criminally party to these atrocious abuses of law and office or he was criminally negligent in allowing the abuses to take place.
 

Phil Ayesho

Superior Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2008
Posts
6,189
Media
0
Likes
2,792
Points
333
Location
San Diego
Sexuality
69% Straight, 31% Gay
Gender
Male
Deno, thank you.

I likewise have a negative view of Bush but I bristle when someone calls him a "criminal".

this goes out to Deno, too.


Read Jason's post.

Every thing he says is verified as absolutely true.

Every thing he cites is classed as a crime.

i.e. ANYTHING that contravenes the constitution is ILLEGAL.

Jason neglects to mention the illegal hiring and firing practices at the justice department.
He neglects to mention that pardoning a criminally indicted and convicted member of your own staff before they can serve so much as a day in jail...after that staff member refused to testify and perjures himself as to the criminal activities of his bosses in the administration... is actually prosecutable as obstruction of justice.


He neglects to mention that The administration gave no bid contracts to companies in which the VP had financial investments.
That the VP accepted valuable gifts and services from corporate interests that ALSO got no bid contracts... ( Stevens of Alaska has been indicted, and Cunningham of California been imprisoned, for what Cheney and Bush have made SOP throughout the republican party)....

Sorry, fella's... but the president of THIS country is not supposed to sit ABOVE the law.
He took an OATH to uphold and defend the Constitution....
He has steadfastly violated that oath in every single action he has taken.


Anyone who is not outraged... either isn't paying attention... is a rube who believes republican spin... or is an apologist for republican malfeaseance because they are more loyal to the dogma of their party than they are to their Nation.


NO party ideology is worth endorsing that results in the kind of wanton profiteering, incompetence, treason and criminal mischief that the republicans have brought about with 12 years of de-regualting the industries that support their party.

These men are not republicans by ideology any more than Ted Haggard was Christian by conscience... they, like Ted, are charlatans and con men and traitorous lackeys who would willingly sell this country down the river if it made them and their friends richer.

The Rebublican platform has been boiled down to one single idea: "every man for himself!"

No thinking individual could support what they have become.
At least... no thinking individual with ethics and true patriotism.


We do not owe loyalty to ANY president... we owe it to the Constitution.

If my guy gets in office and shreds it... then he ceases to be my guy and makes himself my enemy.



Just what does a president have to DO, how far does he have to go, to be impeached?
Half a million Iraqis killed... over oil that Bush's oil soaked cronies are still reaming us for?

Pay attention to the next few months.
Bush doesn't give a shit about his legacy...or the country... its gonna be a grab for all the money he can suck out of us in the time he has left.
 

jason_els

<img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi
Joined
Dec 16, 2004
Posts
10,228
Media
0
Likes
163
Points
193
Location
Warwick, NY, USA
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
Yes. I had just awakened so I apologize for not having all the crimes of George W. Bush at the forefront of my recall.

I will also state that I am sorely disappointed in the United States Congress which has the power to counter these abuses but has neglected to do so. I believe Nancy Pelosi to be just as guilty of holding politics above the Constitutional duties of her office as I do George W. Bush. When a serious crime is committed it is just as much of a crime for those authorized to stop that crime to neglect prosecution of that crime as the perpetrator himself. I am completely disgusted with the actions of both parties during the Bush administration, but most of all, I am disgusted with the American people for not enforcing and protecting their right to demand that these atrocities be corrected and adequately prosecuted. Every American should demand their representatives pursue action and refuse to vote for anyone who does not pledge to do so.

No people of a democratic government can rely upon that government to protect the rights which the people give to themselves. Under our system of government, the people are the sole sovereign body and the government exists and acts only at our grace and favor. If it does not do so, then it is our right to replace it with one that will. Many men, for over two thousand years, have warned us that this is the greatest danger democracies face:

So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men.

There is one safeguard known generally to the wise, which is an advantage and security to all, but especially to democracies as against despots. What is it? Distrust.

Those two quotes were spoken 2000 years apart by two very wise men, Demosthenes of Athens and Voltaire of France. Never trust the government to look after any interest beyond that of the people who run it. Democracy requires vigilance on the part of the electorate. I am beyond disgusted that we have traded that for fried foods, SUVs, cheap gas, and A&F T-shirts.
 

Phil Ayesho

Superior Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2008
Posts
6,189
Media
0
Likes
2,792
Points
333
Location
San Diego
Sexuality
69% Straight, 31% Gay
Gender
Male
Not that I defend the politics of pelosi...

But I have to say that the "democratic" Congress can not be blamed.
They have exactly a ONE VOTE majority.

They can not overide a Presidential veto.


The trouble was the confluence of a Republican President with a republican congress.
And the fact that the rebublican party has, for 20 years, only sought and backed the kind of people who would put party above principle.



Say what you will about Democratic lack of coordination and clear vision.... that diffusion is reflective of a party that endorses principle above party. The variety of perspectives reflect a variety of principles.

Whereas the Republicans started voting as a block... regardless of the consciences of individual congressmen, giving an increasingly clearly incompetent president a rubber stamp for anything he wanted...

"cause if they didn't back the party line...they would get their party backing yanked... and everyone saw what happened to the rebublican Joe Wilson when he dared defy the party propaganda machine....

They have run the republican party like a mafia. Thru payoffs and coercion.

As long as Bush can veto any investigation into his conduct, any legislation that would undo the damage he has done.... we will not see much out of a democratic congress.

While I do not hold them blameless. They have been powerless to stop the republican juggernaut.

I recall when they TRIED to hold a meeting to investigate the false intelligence issue.
The Republican controlled sensate actually CUT the electrical power to their committee room.

At this point, anyone calling themselves a republican should be ashamed and outraged at how their party has been hijacked by criminals.

As for me... if the republicans can not support the constitution... then I think they can all get the fuck out of this country and go start their own totalitarian state elsewhere.


PS Jefferson said we should have the right to bear arms so that we could effectively DEAL with just this kind of thing.
 

jason_els

<img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi
Joined
Dec 16, 2004
Posts
10,228
Media
0
Likes
163
Points
193
Location
Warwick, NY, USA
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
Still Phil, introducing the articles, even if they had no hope of being passed, would be the right thing to do. It would also give the Democrats a way of saying, "don't blame us, the GOP blocked it!" It would also send a signal to the country and the White House that the Dems were serious about defending the Constitution and the laws of the country. By not introducing the articles they are essentially saying they are accomplices in this travesty.
 
D

deleted15807

Guest
I believe Nancy Pelosi to be just as guilty of holding politics above the Constitutional duties of her office as I do George W. Bush. When a serious crime is committed it is just as much of a crime for those authorized to stop that crime to neglect prosecution of that crime as the perpetrator himself. I am completely disgusted with the actions of both parties during the Bush administration, but most of all, I am disgusted with the American people for not enforcing and protecting their right to demand that these atrocities be corrected and adequately prosecuted. Every American should demand their representatives pursue action and refuse to vote for anyone who does not pledge to do so.

Nancy Pelosi and Congress have failed in their constitutional duties. Utterly failed. Like all politicians it seems they are gaming the system, more intrested in personal gain than the health of the country and the integrity of government. I guess we ask too much when Americans themselves don't care.

As has been said many times before 'Ultimately a country gets the government it deserves'. So with all the catastrophic failures of the conservative movement and George Bush and now McCain still has a shot at it, America certainly deserves what is is getting.
 

faceking

Cherished Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2004
Posts
7,426
Media
6
Likes
281
Points
208
Location
Mavs, NOR * CAL
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
Nancy Pelosi and Congress have failed in their constitutional duties. Utterly failed. Like all politicians it seems they are gaming the system, more intrested in personal gain than the health of the country and the integrity of government. I guess we ask too much when Americans themselves don't care.

As has been said many times before 'Ultimately a country gets the government it deserves'. So with all the catastrophic failures of the conservative movement and George Bush and now McCain still has a shot at it, America certainly deserves what is is getting.

Last I checked it was Democrat led Congress with a lower approval rating than Bush's.

And the catastrophic inactions of a Democrat Mayor of New Orleans and Democrat Governor of LA pre/post Katrina.

McCain is far from a conservative, by the way.
 
D

deleted15807

Guest
Last I checked it was Democrat led Congress with a lower approval rating than Bush's.

And the catastrophic inactions of a Democrat Mayor of New Orleans and Democrat Governor of LA pre/post Katrina.

McCain is far from a conservative, by the way.

You have the nerve to bring up the benighted public as a reference point? Pa-leaze. This is the same public that approved the war. The same public that can't connect the failures of government to the people responsible. NEXT. All they care about is cheap gas and cheap food.

But now, seemingly all of a sudden, conservatives are the ones who are tongue-tied, as demonstrated by Sen. John McCain's limping, message-free presidential campaign. McCain's ongoing difficulties in exciting voters aren't just a tactical problem; his woes stem largely from his long-standing adherence to a set of ideas that simply haven't worked in practice. The belief system and finely crafted policy pitches that enabled the right to dominate the war of ideas for the past 30 years have produced a relentless succession of governing failures, from Iraq to Katrina to the economy to the environment.

So now what? In new books, two conservative stalwarts, former House speaker Newt Gingrich and the anti-tax guru Grover Norquist, don't even bother wrestling with such failures. Instead, they argue for an even stronger dose of the medicine that has, so far, produced mainly toxic reactions. They owe their fame to denigrating the government, so one can hardly blame them for sticking with the program. For conservatives to abandon the arguments that have served them so well politically for so long would be akin to a Fortune 500 company dropping its core business when it recognizes that the market for its product is rapidly disintegrating.

Running away from something that has made you successful, even after the public is clearly no longer buying, is extremely difficult to do. Business-school curriculums are filled with case studies of long-prosperous companies that went bankrupt precisely because they were unwilling or unable to shift to an enterprise better suited to changing times. Future political science classes might some day teach a similar story about conservatism. the public has begun to realize that the right's hostility toward government has produced only ineffective government.
 
Last edited by a moderator: