War in Iran? Americans please tell your president to go and FUCK himself!!!

[Phil Ayesho]

Still Phil, introducing the articles, even if they had no hope of being passed, would be the right thing to do. It would also give the Democrats a way of saying, "don't blame us, the GOP blocked it!" It would also send a signal to the country and the White House that the Dems were serious about defending the Constitution and the laws of the country. By not introducing the articles they are essentially saying they are accomplices in this travesty.

The Democrats HAVE introduced lots of legislation aimed at forcing the issue.
They are the ones who pushed for a court ruling on the unconstitutionality of the wiretapping. Pushed for a timeline for pullout...

You have to realize HOW legislation is created . committee-ed, ridered, and then voted on... its an iterative process... and a voting block of republicans on a committee can add a rider that guts the effectiveness of a bill, or adds a proviso that makes the Democrats unwilling to pass it.


BTW- this is SUPPOSED to happen... It is supposed to be very difficult to get laws passed... so that the only laws that get thru have the benefit of general consensus of something important enough to tolerate the pork barrel riders and other manipulations.


The failing of the Republican domination of both houses AND the presidency was that this system of checks on law was BYPASSED by a Republican "PARTY FIRST" system of rubber stamping all bills introduced by Republicans.

Laws abridging the constitution were passed.

That, at least, has stopped because the Democrats have majority.

Until they have a democratic president... or a 2/3 majority in congress... that is as much as they are gonna be able to do.

 

[D_Landrocke DeLonguepiece III]

WAR IN IRAN

They've been planning it for years and no doubt, it will probably happen soon.

I'm wondering what disaster will occur to convince the US people that it is neccessary.
I'm wondering how the Iraq war has made USA a safer place to live
I thought the USA was heading for economic disaster, how can they afford another war?

The only winners from wars are banks, weapons manufacturers, oil companies and other corporations (and polititians with intimate ties to them!)

Everyone else is a loser!

I hope that the Americans see sense this time!

Its amazing that this is in many ways the same arguments we (and other countries) used to not get into WW2 until it was almost too late. Unfortunatly, your simplistic remarks do not solve the problem.

 

[D_Landrocke DeLonguepiece III]

I believe George Bush is a criminal.

He has usurped the constitutional guarantees of habeas corpus by holding American citizens indefinitely without judicial review.

He has usurped the constitutional guarantees of free speech by denying lawful citizens the right to peaceably assemble and exercise their freedom of speech in public areas.

He has waged unlawful war against a nation which he knew posed no threat to American security and presented false testimony to the United States Congress to effect authorization for that war.

He has usurped the constitutional guarantees against unreasonable search and seizure by authorizing the warrantless electronic surveillance program.

He has usurped American treaties authorized by the Senate against transporting people to foreign states where those people stood a reasonable chance of being subject to torture.

He has permitted or was party to revealing the covert activities of a United States intelligence agency program which had not been lawfully declassified, placing the program and the agents in jeopardy. This is a felony under US Code, the second highest law of the land.

The buck stops on the desk of George W. Bush. Either he was criminally party to these atrocious abuses of law and office or he was criminally negligent in allowing the abuses to take place.

What citizens has he held? I don't know of any. And I don't remember his suspending habeas corpus. However, I do know that the president that many people view as the best.....Lincoln........suspended habeas corpus.

 

[yarraman]

George Bush is a war criminal !

 

[Phil Ayesho]

Doug- go here and click on the Quicklime link to the video.

Habeas Corpus


It will explain to just what Bush did and why its staggering in its effect.


Yes, Lincoln suspended Habeas corpus... In a time of congressionally declared war, and he suspended it for the duration of the war.
When the war ended, the suspension ended.

Personally, I think he was wrong... but the constitution does allow for periods of martial law when the country is invaded and war declared.

What Bush did was different. We are not in a declared war. There is NO named enemy in this "war"... we are at war with "terror" which is not a group, but a tactic.

That leaves entirely open to presidential interpretation WHO constitutes the 'enemy'... what, exactly makes someone a terrorist...
AND it removes from the accused any access to legal recourse, or even to know what they are accused of.
The military commissions act set up a SECRET tribunal of men who could decide you would spend eternity in jail for whatever reasons THEY felt justified... and they don't even have to tell you what you did.


This in NOT what Lincoln did. Not nearly.

And the several successive court ruling have found it unconstitutional. But our glorious despot of a pres is still fighting against the court...

Not only does he act unlawfully... he persists when its been found unlawful.

And yet folks STILL defend him... the same folks who railroaded Clinton obver a lousy blowjob will tolerate ANY amount of treason and chicanery from THEIR republican president.

 

[D_Landrocke DeLonguepiece III]

Doug- go here and click on the Quicklime link to the video.

Habeas Corpus


It will explain to just what Bush did and why its staggering in its effect.


Yes, Lincoln suspended Habeas corpus... In a time of congressionally declared war, and he suspended it for the duration of the war.
When the war ended, the suspension ended.

Personally, I think he was wrong... but the constitution does allow for periods of martial law when the country is invaded and war declared.

What Bush did was different. We are not in a declared war. There is NO named enemy in this "war"... we are at war with "terror" which is not a group, but a tactic.

That leaves entirely open to presidential interpretation WHO constitutes the 'enemy'... what, exactly makes someone a terrorist...
AND it removes from the accused any access to legal recourse, or even to know what they are accused of.
The military commissions act set up a SECRET tribunal of men who could decide you would spend eternity in jail for whatever reasons THEY felt justified... and they don't even have to tell you what you did.


This in NOT what Lincoln did. Not nearly.

And the several successive court ruling have found it unconstitutional. But our glorious despot of a pres is still fighting against the court...

Not only does he act unlawfully... he persists when its been found unlawful.

And yet folks STILL defend him... the same folks who railroaded Clinton obver a lousy blowjob will tolerate ANY amount of treason and chicanery from THEIR republican president.

What is amazing to me is the anger that comes from the far left. Lincoln was hated in his time and history found him to be right. I believe the same will ring true for Busch.

 

[THEDUDEofDestiny]

we're not going to bomb iran. we're going to let israel bomb them. there is a subtle difference that is evident to every observer who doesn't have a bomb landing on them.

 

[SpeedoGuy]

I just gotta laugh at the die-hard Republican apologists who don't seem even a bit bothered that GWB continues to brazenly use national security as an excuse to ignore any law or treaty he doesn't like.

And the partisanship scandal the Dept of Justice? Sadly, more of the same tired old crap from the GWB administration. I like the way Leonard Pitts' latest column described the administration's appointed hacks who denied DOJ employment to those of differing political backgrounds:

There is something Stepford, something robotic and chilling, in the glassy-eyed, ends-justifies-the-means faith of these young Bush aides in their own righteousness. Forget credibility. Forget competence. Just give us your answer, please: ``What is it about George W. Bush that makes you want to serve him?''

It is a telling question. Apparently, these people have forgotten or never even knew: It wasn't George W. Bush they were supposed to serve.
​

 

[THEDUDEofDestiny]

some men aren't after aything logical. some men just want to watch the world burn. i am one of these men.

 

[deleted15807]

some men aren't after aything logical. some men just want to watch the world burn. i am one of these men.

Don't worry. This uncontrolled experiment in mankind ruling the planet isn't going to end well as you know.


CNN.com - Scientists agree world faces mass extinction - August 23, 2002

http://www.thetechherald.com/articl...d-jellyfish-population-is-bad-sign-for-planet

 

[hot-rod]

I'm sure our president is deeply concerned about doing anything that might make people think less of him or his administration.

I don't think so! These kinds of people don't care what people say about 'em. That's how they got where they are in life, but with the help with lots and lots of adoring sheep. :684:

 

[dongalong]

WAR IN IRAN

They've been planning it for years and no doubt, it will probably happen soon.

I'm wondering what disaster will occur to convince the US people that it is neccessary.
I'm wondering how the Iraq war has made USA a safer place to live
I thought the USA was heading for economic disaster, how can they afford another war?

The only winners from wars are banks, weapons manufacturers, oil companies and other corporations (and polititians with intimate ties to them!)

Everyone else is a loser!

I hope that the Americans see sense this time!

Old thread but still valid - Americans please tell your new president to go and fuck himself!!!

The war has already started with sanctions! The US military is moving into the Persian gulf

Do the American people really want this?