War on Womens Reproductive Rights

[B_crackoff]

I'll repost this here too.

Doesn't this come under some kind of child destruction laws? I.e if a 3rd party damages you & the unborn child it becomes murder, or if (3rd trimester on)the mother is substance abusing etc.

It's impossible to know without the full details of the case - mental capacity etc, but surely the doctor recognised the risk of miscarriage, & applied whatever guidelines exist.

I don't have much time for the medical service at all, but it's a bit harsh for some to believe that the miscarriage was because of hospitalisation, rather than the fulfilment of the risk.

Isn't there a waiver system? In such a litigious culture, the medical profession has to cover its ass.

It was a female doctor, & Burton was still smoking.

Doctor Gets Court Order to Confine Pregnant Woman Against Her Will | Change.org News

If you want to change the law, you'll have to get rid of child destruction laws too.

I'm ambivalent on this - it's sods law either way.

 

[D_Rosalind Mussell]

Let's put the links to news articles and actual laws here in Politics. Let's talk about how it affects female living in the other Womens issues thread.

I really wish for there to be more female participation over here at Politics. Sometimes I feel like the only person in here without balls.

*insert joke about the size of Helga's balls here*

When my story is finally ready for publishing in a blog I will link it in Womens Issues. But if I hear more about stuff in the news, I'll link it here. Also anything to do with reproductive rights which does not involve women so much, such as forced sterilization of retarded kids, or ethnic minorities.

I've been looking through the links and I'm completely dumbfound by at least half of what I've read. When does clubbing and dragging us back to the cave resume?

 

[midlifebear]

This is a major political issue. It belongs here. The idea that men have any control over women's health and well being is hideous. Only a woman has the right to do as she wishes with her body. No one else.

And the excuse this is a Western Civilization Tradition founded in Christianity is not a valid excuse. Women had control of their reproductive rights until the "male" medical community began overseeing births in the mid 1800s. Prior to that time, midwives were the caretakers of women, pregnancy, birth, and abortions.

Point of fact, men are completely clueless of the issues women face and should be put in prison for attempting to force a woman to do anything she does not wish to do. But look how casual men still look upon rape.

Women need to unite and take out a few uber antifeminists who think they know better than women regarding women's health care. And the most odious aspect in the USA is that insurance, no matter how much you pay for it, does not cover birth control. That's just fucking stupid.

Now ask me how I really feel.

 

[dandelion]

I dont think it is a women's issue - it concerns men too. I think its complete insanity for any human to be legally obliged to use their body as life support for another. Just think where that one leads... Thats slavery, and not good slavery either. But hey, I believe in the rights of the individual to do all sorts of things.

As to the issue of miscarriages, er, by and large if you have a miscarriage you body is trying to tell you there's a problem. We have family experience of the bad side of heroic medical intervention to save a baby. Require all those would be miscarriages to be kept alive and the country will be bankrupt from the million pound a go cost of lifetime medical care for the ones where there was a reason behind it. Look on it as evoution in action. If your mother can't cope with driving in rushhour while pregnant, you arent suited to modern life.

so midlife, how do you really feel?

 

[FeroxFemina]

I agree that this issue definitely belongs in the politics section.

I would also like to add that no one has mentions the rights of the father. What do men have to say about reproductive rights?

What would you do if your wife miscarried in a state where it was deemed illegal? How would you handle your wife/girlfriend being confined (like the Samantha Burton story in Florida)?

 

[D_Rosalind Mussell]

This is a major political issue. It belongs here. The idea that men have any control over women's health and well being is hideous. Only a woman has the right to do as she wishes with her body. No one else.

And the excuse this is a Western Civilization Tradition founded in Christianity is not a valid excuse. Women had control of their reproductive rights until the "male" medical community began overseeing births in the mid 1800s. Prior to that time, midwives were the caretakers of women, pregnancy, birth, and abortions.

Point of fact, men are completely clueless of the issues women face and should be put in prison for attempting to force a woman to do anything she does not wish to do. But look how casual men still look upon rape.

Women need to unite and take out a few uber antifeminists who think they know better than women regarding women's health care. And the most odious aspect in the USA is that insurance, no matter how much you pay for it, does not cover birth control. That's just fucking stupid.

Now ask me how I really feel.

It's quite possible I just fell in love with you. :kiss:

 

[midlifebear]

I really feel that men -- ALL MEN -- need to shut the fuck up and allow women to control their own lives. You fathered a kid and it's still gestating in some woman's uterus? What fucking rights do you think you have? None. You gave up anything you might have in a relationship to woman or potential child by not taking measures to prevent a pregnancy, unless you had an implicit agreement and understanding before you had sex without using contraception.

My maternal grandmother divorced my paternal grandfather in 1898 when she was seven months pregnant. She had already given birth to my father a year before. And she was quite successful making certain my paternal grandfather had nothing to do with his so-called "progeny." Everyone thought she was crazy. However, once I personally had the opportunity to meet and know my paternal grandfather I think she was crazy for marrying him in the first place. Once your reproductive material leaves your body it isn't yours anymore; unless you're keeping it frozen as a dessert topping or some other purpose.

However, once a man enters into a contract with a woman to mix their genes in an attempt to have children which they also agree to raise and care for, I'll submit a man has certain rights. But the minute he begins beating the shit out of his kids, wife, becomes a dead beat, or doesn't keep up his end of the deal he's in serious danger of losing all rights. And this includes imprisoning a woman so she won't miscarriage. A miscarriage is nature's way of saying, "Whoops, problem here. Better we miscarriage and start over again."

Women are not slaves nor are children. And women have been successfully raising large families -- without the assistance of "a man" -- for millennia. Men have a far too highly rated opinion of their roles when it comes to keeping the human species going.

 

[B_crackoff]

If it's all about a woman's right's & decisions, then why is a man seen as deadbeat if he doesn't emotionally or financially support a pregant woman?

So a woman should deal with all of it herself? Why should the state pay either, if it's nothing to do with them?

There was a thread recently bemoaning the fact that abortion costs would be rising in the US. Isn't that down to a woman's own personal responsibility - i.e she wants it, she should pay for it?

There's a lot of soapboxes here - but it's a very complex issue, horribly complex, so I feel bound to throw in a couple of points, especially as we have very little detail to go on.

Other similar recent ethical dilemmas:

Can forced sterilization ever be ethical? | Practical Ethics

World's oldest mother Rajo Devi Lohan reveals she is dying | Mail Online

Exactly where does it end? The sooner babies are grown in tubs, the better!

 

[helgaleena]

Great post, crackoff, but I'm going to singleout only oneof your points at this time....

Exactly where does it end? The sooner babies are grown in tubs, the better!

The better for who? State orphanages turning out ideal working drones? That's going in my story now; thanks.

And MLBear: There's a big black market for frozen breast milk now by moms desperate for diaper money. So if you have any surplus 'dessert topping' for sale, I can think of a few potential buyers.

 

[helgaleena]

More nutty legislation in Georgia:

(Video) Another Bizarre Bill By Rep: Women Who Suffer Miscarriages Can Face Felony Charges If Not Of 'Natural' Causes

Proposes that all who have a miscarriage ought to file a police report.

Says here that similar bills being put forward in MN and Texas.

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Daily-Reports/2011/March/08/abortion-issues-in-states.aspx

 

[B_VinylBoy]

I really feel that men -- ALL MEN -- need to shut the fuck up and allow women to control their own lives. You fathered a kid and it's still gestating in some woman's uterus? What fucking rights do you think you have? None. You gave up anything you might have in a relationship to woman or potential child by not taking measures to prevent a pregnancy, unless you had an implicit agreement and understanding before you had sex without using contraception.

My maternal grandmother divorced my paternal grandfather in 1898 when she was seven months pregnant. She had already given birth to my father a year before. And she was quite successful making certain my paternal grandfather had nothing to do with his so-called "progeny." Everyone thought she was crazy. However, once I personally had the opportunity to meet and know my paternal grandfather I think she was crazy for marrying him in the first place. Once your reproductive material leaves your body it isn't yours anymore; unless you're keeping it frozen as a dessert topping or some other purpose.

However, once a man enters into a contract with a woman to mix their genes in an attempt to have children which they also agree to raise and care for, I'll submit a man has certain rights. But the minute he begins beating the shit out of his kids, wife, becomes a dead beat, or doesn't keep up his end of the deal he's in serious danger of losing all rights. And this includes imprisoning a woman so she won't miscarriage. A miscarriage is nature's way of saying, "Whoops, problem here. Better we miscarriage and start over again."

Women are not slaves nor are children. And women have been successfully raising large families -- without the assistance of "a man" -- for millennia. Men have a far too highly rated opinion of their roles when it comes to keeping the human species going.

This is precisely why we love MLB. :biggrin1:

 

[Drifterwood]

Women's decisions can ruin people's lives, including their own, when they keep a child and equally when they don't keep a child.

That is the price of freedom. That is being human.

 

[FeroxFemina]

Women are not slaves nor are children. And women have been successfully raising large families -- without the assistance of "a man" -- for millennia. Men have a far too highly rated opinion of their roles when it comes to keeping the human species going.

I'm with BBW36, I think I just fell in love too

 

[B_Nick4444]

How can people think like this about females as if their own bodies do not belong to them?

They can do whatever they want with their bodies; If they spread their legs, they have exercised their "choice", after which there are consequences and obligations to a third party -- At that point the State has a legitimate interest at intervention. Were it not for the presence of a third party, no-one would care.

The other questions are entirely too rhetorical for me to engage, so I will refrain ...

 

[FeroxFemina]

If they spread their legs, they have exercised their "choice", after which there are consequences and obligations to a third party

So abstinence is the answer?

 

[B_Nick4444]

no responsibility, and respect for life

 

[TheRob]

Women's decisions can ruin people's lives, including their own, when they keep a child and equally when they don't keep a child.

That is the price of freedom. That is being human.

womens decisions basically always ruin lives actually...

 

[TheRob]

I'm with BBW36, I think I just fell in love too

you need both men and women to make a baby to suggest otherwise meerly suggests your own stupidity

 

[B_VinylBoy]

no responsibility, and respect for life

Yep... including respect for the woman who now has to risk hers to bring your seed to term. Which is not to say that you'd ever have sex with a woman, but it's glaringly ironic that you'd talk about respect for life for an unborn child while also reducing the importance of another's already existing life for "opening her legs".

did you forget condoms and various forms of birth control?

Did you? That's not only the woman's responsibility.

 

[TheRob]

So abstinence is the answer?

did you forget condoms and various forms of birth control?