Whilst that story is sad & tragic, the child would have felt the pain in or out of the womb - & the parents grief would have been the same. Adults have children, not infants, & death is part of life - we shouldn't hide from the trauma & infantalize ourselves - grow up. (I'm sure that the parents grief would not have been more, either way).
Does this mean you would be comfortable allowing your child, born or unborn, to die a painful death? Would your grief be the same if your child died screaming in pain, rather than silence...especially if you could have prevented that pain?
What if the child had been born normally, & then 5 minutes later succombed to some hospital borne infection that would destroy our perceptions of its existence? Should we smother it then? Should we euthanise anyone with a less than 20% chance of surviving any illness?
Why would perceptions of the child's existence be destroyed over an illness? Does the child appear dead? For me, it always goes back to the circumstances. Every reproductive situation is as unique as the individuals involved. A reproductive decision like that is extremely difficult for anyone, it's not cut and dry, which is how you make it seem.
Has anyone seen what happened to that guy in the Beach! Out of sight, & out of mind en?
I remember as quite a young chappie ten years ago, my then GF's sister going into labour at 24 weeks - the doctors saying it was a lost cause - the baby was naturally aborting because something was wrong with it - the GF's sister going ballistic, & somehow - preventing delivery for a week, by forcing them to give her drugs which somehow meant the amniotic(?) fluid refilled her womb.
That right there is the result of a woman's right to choose. Take away just one right (read: abortion) and those rights to life-saving measures will be out the window right on it's heels. Reproductive rights belong to all women and we shouldn't hand that right over to the law because of individual belief systems.
Ok the child was the size of my palm, but she bounces around like any other kid now - all because her mother didn't believe the doctors.
This is great, I'm glad this woman took the situation into her own hands and beat the odds. I'm truly happy for her, as it could have gone the other way but she trusted herself. I hope that child is having a great life. :smile:
Does anyone know any doctor with even a 3 for 4 record in absolutely correct diagnosis 1st time around? In the NHS, I've even dealt with a doctor myself incapable of removing a stitch.:wink:
Same here. I've fired a few doctors in my day. :redface:
The only thing different between a death inside & outside the womb is that it forces us to confront our demons & become responsible adults, just like our grandparents(well mine & millions of others ) had to when confronted with slaughter on a daily basis during WW2.
I have to disagree with you here. A death inside the womb creates the demons and unless you are a woman, you could not possibly begin to understand. If you think those women were less traumatized back then compared to women now, I can assure you they were not.
As far as the WWII reference goes, you seem to have this romantic notion that people just confronted their demons and were unhaunted by them because they were more resilient. The truth is they hid those demons, where nowadays a person is more free to express them. My dad was in WWII and did not want to talk about the war, even with my mom. He had his demons, and yet he was the responsible adult you describe. So you see, people really aren't different. They just deal with their demons in different ways.
Wouldn't most people want to see a wanted child, with even the minimum of hope, rather than some uncaring being chucking it in the incinerator? I'm sure in reflection that the Mom will eventually be grateful that she had the chance to hold & love her child rather than that.
I want to note here that the decision to abort was made by the couple. The story even states that they could have sought out-of-state treatment but the mother was too distraught. Neither of them wanted to lose their child, they just didn't want their child to be in pain.
I think it just shows that people today are too wrapped up in themselves, how they feel, & that their empathy is bred from the self same narcissism.
While I agree that there is an excess of self-centered assholes in the universe, I wouldn't pin that on these people. How is it self-centered for parents to try and make their child's death as pain free as possible?
I know it sounds harsh, but man/woman up! Death is part of life, embrace it, & value every second that you & yours have got.
Sounds to me like you never lost anyone of real significance in your life. Would it be harsh of me to ask you to report in as soon as it happens, just so you can tell us how the manning up is going for you? This is where I have to tell you that you make yourself out to a major asshat with a parochial take on life. May you never have to "man up" in the face of death.