War started

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Ralexx, Mar 20, 2003.

  1. Ralexx

    Ralexx Member

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    Here we go...

    Striking Baghdad took place one hour and half after the expiry of the ultimatum. They seemed limited, far from the massive dropping of 3 000 bombs announced by the Pentagon under the term of phase of "shock and fear". One indicated that more than 40 cruise missiles Tomahawk had been launched by four cruisers, two American submarines ; F-117 A bombers had been also used.
    On MSNBC, Norman Schwarzkopf, who had co-ordinated the military offensive against Iraq in 1991, was astonished that the offensive started by limited strikes: « My initial reaction was a total shock because we thought that that would start with a giant attack against the downtown area. »

    ... March 20, 2003...
     
  2. Imported

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    jumbo747jet: Is it just me, or doesn't it seem strange to go against the U.N. and attack Iraq in order to punish Iraq for not following U.N. agreements ? In my books two wrongs don't make a right.
     
  3. Imported

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    balls: It's just you.
     
  4. Imported

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    BIGBOYDAVE: Its not just you over 2/3 of the world agrees with you
     
  5. Ralexx

    Ralexx Member

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    Article written by Paolo Coelho, the well-known Brazilian author, for Le Monde, published on March 18, 2003.

    ------

    Thank you, great leader.
    Thank you, George W Bush.
    Thank you for showing us all the danger Saddam Hussein represents. Many of us perhaps forgot that he had used chemical weapons against its people, against the Kurds, the Iranians. Hussein is a sanguinary dictator, one of the most vivid expressions of the Evil today.
    But I have other reasons to thank you. During the first two months of the year 2003, you knew how to show the world many significant things, and for this very reason you deserve my gratitude.
    Thank you for showing all of us that the Turkish people and his Parliament are not for sale, even for $26 billion. Thank you for revealing to the world the gigantic abyss which exists between the decisions of the Governs and the will of the People; for revealing clearly that José Maria Aznar and Tony Blair do not have any respect for the voices who elected them and how they don't care at all about them. Aznar is able to ignore the fact that 90 % of the Spaniards are opposed to the war, and Blair couldn't care less about the greatest public demonstration in the last thirty years in England.
    Thank you, for your perseverance made Tony Blair walk in the British Parliament with a faked file, written by a student ten years ago, and to present it like "irrefutable evidence collected by the British secret services".
    Thank you to have covered Colin Powell with ridicule during the famous Security Council session, with him displaying photos that, one week later, were contested by Hans Blix, the inspector responsible of disarmament of Iraq.
    Thank you, because your position brought to Dominique de Villepin - the French foreign affairs minister pronouncing his speech against the war - the honour to be applauded in UN plenary session - fact that, in my knowledge, happened only once in the history of United Nations, at the time of a speech of Nelson Mandela.
    Thank you, because due to your efforts to wage war, for the first time, the Arab nations - in general divided - unanimously condemned the invasion, at the time of the Cairo meeting, during the last week of February.
    Thank you, because due to your rhetoric affirming that "UN is likely to show its importance", even the most refractory countries ended up as oppsing any attack on Iraq.
    Thank you, for your foreign policy led the British Minister of Foreign Affairs, Jack Straw, to declare in the 21st century that "a war can have moral reasons" - and to thus lose all his political credibility.
    Thanks for trying to divide Europe who struggles for its unification; this warning will not be ignored.
    Thank you to have made a success out of something that few people made a success of, in one century: gathering millions of humans, on all continents, and making them fight for the same idea - although this idea is opposed to yours.
    Thanks again for making us feel that our words, even if not heard, are at least pronounced. That will give us more force in the future.
    Thank you for ignoring us, for excluding all those who are against your decision, because the future of the Earth will belong to excluded. Thank you because, without you, we would not have known our capacity of mobilisation. Perhaps it's useless now, but it will be certainly useful later.

    --------------------
     
  6. Imported

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    balls: [quote author=BIGBOYDAVE link=board=99;num=1048153410;start=0#3 date=03/20/03 at 20:39:24]Its not just you  over 2/3 of the world agrees with you[/quote]
    I'd bet that 95% of the Iraqi's don't.
    2/3?
     
  7. jonb

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    Yup, 2/3. And actually, most Iraqis are probably still pissed about Bush Sr's use of depleted uranium in Iraq.
     
  8. Imported

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    balls: [quote author=jonb link=board=99;num=1048153410;start=0#6 date=03/21/03 at 10:00:41]Yup, 2/3. And actually, most Iraqis are probably still pissed about Bush Sr's use of depleted uranium in Iraq.[/quote]
    Early news reports are stating that Iraqi citizens are cheering American Marines and welcoming them as liberating troops. I read a news report of women hugging soldiers legs and kissing their knees. It doesn’t appear that they are upset about Bush Sr.’s use of depleted uranium. I would imagine the possibility of not living under a murderous tyrant would be exhilarating.
    IMO European and American left leaning anti-Americans are the ones who are more upset about the use of depleted uranium than the Iraqi’s.
     
  9. jonb

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    The only way to know if it's true is to already know it.

    And I'm still wondering why Bush isn't attacking North Korea...It's a much more immediate threat than Iraq.
     
  10. B_DoubleMeatWhopper

    B_DoubleMeatWhopper New Member

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    Come on, Jon – you're smarter and more cynical than that! You already know the reason: Iraq is easier to win than Korea.
     
  11. jonb

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    I was being ironic.
     
  12. Imported

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    BIGBOYDAVE: [quote author=DoubleMeatWhopper link=board=99;num=1048153410;start=0#9 date=03/21/03 at 14:22:27]Come on, Jon – you're smarter and more cynical than that! You already know the reason: Iraq is easier to win than Korea.[/quote]

    Actually Is It Because North Korea Has No valuable Oil Fields to Fuel American Greed? There is really nothing there of Value to the Bush Oil machine so why waist time money and personel on it
     
  13. B_DoubleMeatWhopper

    B_DoubleMeatWhopper New Member

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    Oh come now ... we all know that Dubya's only motive is to 'liberate' the Iraqi people, don't we? "We will free you from your evil fearless leader, Sodomy Insane. After we bomb your population to smithereens, you will all have liberty. That's all we're doing, no ulterior motives. Uh, by the way, please don't set fire to your oil fields"
     
  14. Imported

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    wvu_kerq: Despite the fact that I am a member of the US armed forces I refuse to have an opinion on this war. Why, you ask? Do you really know whats going on? You can watch the news, you can read the paper, you can listen to the radio but are they telling the truth or are they telling you what you want to hear, what they want you to hear, what their sponsors want you to hear? If I thought that I was getting the whole perspective on the war, other countries opinions, other American's opinions, and all of the facts... then maybe I could call head or tails on it. But since I cannot possible know all I can do is sit and wait it out and do what I can to make my corner of the world a better place. Feel free to vent, protest, or just be angry, but do you really think it will help?
     
  15. Imported

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    BIGBOYDAVE: [quote author=wvu_kerq link=board=99;num=1048153410;start=0#13 date=03/22/03 at 09:14:40]Despite the fact that I am a member of the US armed forces I refuse to have an opinion on this war. Why, you ask? Do you really know whats going on? You can watch the news, you can read the paper, you can listen to the radio but are they telling the truth or are they telling you what you want to hear, what they want you to hear, what their sponsors want you to hear? If I thought that I was getting the whole perspective on the war, other countries opinions, other American's opinions, and all of the facts... then maybe I could call head or tails on it. But since I cannot possible know all I can do is sit and wait it out and do what I can to make my corner of the world a better place. Feel free to vent, protest, or just be angry, but do you really think it will help?[/quote]

    Using This Logic I guess You Would never Vote either or have any opinion on what the government does since it would never affect you in your little corner of the world!!
     
  16. Imported

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    mindseye: From CBS News:

    What if it turns out there's nothing to disarm?


    [hr]

    Edit: This article was originally posted at 1:42 pm Eastern Daylight Time. Since then, the quote shown above has been removed from the CBS article at that link.

    Here's a link to a transcript of the McChrystal briefing, located on a non-US server.
     
  17. Imported

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    BIGBOYDAVE: [quote author=mindseye link=board=99;num=1048153410;start=15#15 date=03/23/03 at 10:42:58]From CBS News:


    What if it turns out there's nothing to disarm?[/quote]

    Wouldn't That Be a suprise. I am more suprised that If The Iraq military had these weapons why havn't they used them yet. Anyway we all know that if there is nothing there now There surly will be after this initial phase is over we have to prove to the world our reasons for going into and destroying an independant country with a ruthless regime. Then we can use there oil to pay for having Liberated them
     
  18. jonb

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    [quote author=mindseye link=board=99;num=1048153410;start=15#15 date=03/23/03 at 10:42:58]What if it turns out there's nothing to disarm?[/quote]

    Bush'll say Saddam invented a cloaking device.
     
  19. johnstone1985

    johnstone1985 New Member

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    [quote author=BIGBOYDAVE link=board=99;num=1048153410;start=15#16 date=03/23/03 at 10:55:31]

    Wouldn't That Be a suprise. I am more suprised that If The Iraq military had these weapons why havn't they used them yet. Anyway we all know that if there is nothing there now  There surly will be after this initial phase is over  we have to prove to the world our reasons for going into and destroying an independant country with a ruthless regime. Then we can use there oil to pay for having Liberated them[/quote]

    First off I personally think that Saddam must have some sort of weapon of 'mass destruction' as if he didn't the propaganda that surrounds this whole ordeal wouldn't be needed, and what I mean by that is America and Britain know for a fact what Saddam has got some sort f higly dangerous weapon, but cannot disclose this publicly as it would harm their credibility, the same reason that Saddam won't use them in the war as he would also loose credibility as the victim trying to protect his country.

    Moreover, what surprises me most is that it's amazing how history repeats itself. Everyone was having this discussion when Hitler was rearming leading up to the second world war, but what I feel failed to be answered back then and failed to be answered now "What is a weapon of mass destruction?". Shouldn't we have learned that a Gun kills, a Soldier kills, a Bomb kills, Anthrax kills, Nuclear weapons kill. It may be in varying numbers, but if anything kills I believe it is a weapon of destruction.

    A nuclear bomb could drop and kill thousands and millions, a gun could be taken into a school and kill 16 children, but don't you think that we would be faced with the same morral and social issues? And although a nuclear bomb kills more, there will be people celebrating those deaths, where as the example of the killing of the 16 children would put a whole country or world even into a state of mourning. So rather than have Anti-War demonstrations, or Political 'spin' why doesn't everyone work together to identify what a weapon of mass destruction is?

    The Nuclear Bomb is not the weapon of mass destruction, the test tube filled with small pox is not the weapon of mass destruction, nor is it the gun, the airplains or the tanks. It's the men behind those weapons! it's the men who decide what are to be done with them! So what are the weapons of mass destruction? It's the agressors. It's Saddam, it's Bush it's Blair, it's the crazed psycho's that runs into the school with guns blazing, that are the weapons of mass destruction, and yes Tony Blair and George 'Dubya' Bush will be doing the world good by disarming Iraq, but when push comes to shove, who will disarm the biggest Weapon of Mass destruction, President George W. Bush?
     
  20. Pecker

    Pecker Retired Moderator
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    It would not surprise this humble poster to find that Saddam is saving his WMD's for defense of Baghdad.

    Pecker
     
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