Watching Gay Guys get yelled at.

[Noire]

I think many of the people responding here have really been treated badly and there is really no excuse for it.

That being said, you are adults and know that homosexuality is not accepted in most places. I think in many cases illustrated here and what I have seen demonstrated, the gay person is eliciting a desired response. Many gays dress provocative, speak in a fake lisp and publicly demonstrate affection. This is called passive aggressive behavior and it is done for attention. Yes the attention is negative, but attention none the less. As Wingnut (above) says above, "fuck pacifism". I think many people are aggressively trying to throw their way of life in the face of as many people as possible.

I want to really be rude and completely insult you, but I think you've done a far better job.

Im just going to say, you're completely our of your mind. Also, most gay people dont want attention, some do, but there are straight people who are also desperate for attention. This shouldnt become a gay/straight issue, it's about a group of people being held to a completely different set of rules/judgements than everyone else, and that is wholly unacceptable. That's all it comes down to, we deserve respect, and we will get that respect, whether you're for it or against it, it will happen. Dont forget it.

"That being said, you are adults and know that homosexuality is not accepted in most places."

What does that even mean? Are you implying that gay people are simply trying to stir the pot. So self righteous.

Also, that whole gay bashing shit has never happened to me, and I dont plan on having it start soon, noone bring up my homosexuality in the negative. And using the word gay in the negative is the most unbelieveable thing in the word that's like using "thats so black" in the negative.

 

[wingnut84]

Many gays dress provocative, speak in a fake lisp and publicly demonstrate affection. This is called passive aggressive behavior and it is done for attention.

Well, I think gays have just as much a right to show affection in public as straights. That said, I hate seeing PDAs regardless of who's doing them.


Also, I don't find the word "gay" to be offensive when used as an insult. It's entirely possible to not be homophobic and still use this word to denigrate things.

 

[ganja4me]

Well, I think gays have just as much a right to show affection in public as straights. That said, I hate seeing PDAs regardless of who's doing them.


Also, I don't find the word "gay" to be offensive when used as an insult. It's entirely possible to not be homophobic and still use this word to denigrate things.

It's kind of like when you think somebody is stupid you may say "You are such a blonde" or "You must be a natural blonde". It is kind of a stereotype that is not true in most cases. If someone is the type of person that these words describe I could see how it could come off as offensive. It reminds me of those Geicco commercials with the cavemen.
​

 

[BIGBULL29]

This thread is a real eye-opener for the unenlightened.

Our society has not evolved much. It still remains barbaric on many levels.

Barbarism is all around us. I'm embarrassed for American society. :redface::redface::redface::redface:

I'm angry, too

I hate hearing these stories. But, I must hear them. I must face reality. I must look barbarism straight in the face.

homophobia > barbarism

Fight for a civilized society.

 

[B_All4show]

All4Show, they are being affectionate. Nothing more, nothing less. The fact that some people want to exert control over other people's lives is not their problem. They didn't cause that. You're trying to rationalize why that stuff doesn't happen to you or people like you. You aren't kissing another man, talking with a lisp, wearing bright clothes so people won't harrass you. It's like when a women gets raped when she wore a low-cut blouse. People will say she should have saw it coming. No, the victim did not cause the crime and they did not put ideas into the perpetrator's head that happened long before.

I have talked to many people that you would never know were gay so they never get harassed. They know when and where the behavior is more acceptable. I think that homosexual activism is a part of the "gay culture". You admitted that it is societies problem and society has to learn to accept it. A stripper should be able to walk home at 3 am from her pole dancing job without her top on and still be safe, but that is not reality is it? Gays are fighting the moray’s and morals of the society and many enjoy doing it.

 

[B_All4show]

I want to really be rude and completely insult you, but I think you've done a far better job.

Thank you.

Im just going to say, you're completely our of your mind. Also, most gay people dont want attention, some do, but there are straight people who are also desperate for attention. This shouldnt become a gay/straight issue, it's about a group of people being held to a completely different set of rules/judgements than everyone else, and that is wholly unacceptable. That's all it comes down to, we deserve respect, and we will get that respect, whether you're for it or against it, it will happen. Dont forget it.

This statement ends with you demonstrating my point. You will fight to get homosexuality accepted by the genral society. This is the activism to which I speak. There are may ways to do it and some gays choose to use PDA's and the like to flaunt it.

"That being said, you are adults and know that homosexuality is not accepted in most places."

What does that even mean? Are you implying that gay people are simply trying to stir the pot. So self righteous.

It seems you understand what I was trying to say, but why is it self righteous?

 

[biguy2738]

That being said, you are adults and know that homosexuality is not accepted in most places.

This is called passive aggressive behavior and it is done for attention.

I think many people are aggressively trying to throw their way of life in the face of as many people as possible.

It seems you understand what I was trying to say, but why is it self righteous?

All4show, I respectfully would like you to know that even though I am not gay, your posts have offended me greatly. On the most part because of the way you are addressing us, not only are you being self righteous, but I would venture so far as to say that you are being condescending as well - you are speaking to us as if we are in fact children in need of an educator. Statements like "you are adults" coupled with the innuendo of "so therefore you ought to know better"; "this is called passive aggression" - I think we all know what passive aggression is and it would be so much more respectful to express it along the lines of "some gay people approach the situation in a passive aggressive manner where they...", coupled with "and it is done for attention." Really? How do you know it's done for attention? (I will get back to this point a little later) etc. etc.etc.

You have addressed us in a manner where you leave a sense of trying to make us aware that you know much better than everyone else (and I draw your attention to the fact that everytime I speak about "us", I mean all members) hence my venturing so far as to add condescending. We are all adults, so please address us like adults and not children...I am not dense and don't appreciate having things explained to me as if I am unable to put two and two together.

Now to the actual content of your post:

1) It is all good and well to approach things from a stance of: "You know that homosexuality isn't accepted in most places". Have you actually stopped to consider what that statement means and what the implications are? Have you actually put yourself in the shoes of homosexual couples? How would you feel if heterosexuality was not accepted in most parts and with it came the expectation that you had to live out your life and inner truth behind four walls? Would you be willing to live most of your life behind four walls? You are basically saying that gay couples ought to give up their rights to enjoy the freedom and equality of everybody else.

I am South African and I wonder where the country as well as our black population would be today if they slunk back into the shadows and dregs of everyday life because "they know that they aren't accepted in most places". I cringe at such a thought. The issue at hand is not about acceptance, it is about equality, basic human rights and above all else being humane, civilised people!

2)The issue of passive aggression being used for attention: Yes, I do not deny that in some cases, public displays of affection may be done in a passive aggressive manner...and rightly so. If my rights, values and freedom was restricted or treated with discrimination, then I too would be up at arms and fight! Fight! Fight! I would REFUSE to be trodden upon, beaten down, judged and restricted and I would go the other opposite extreme of "getting in your faces" (cue: "We're here! We're queer! Get over it!). If people were a bit more accepting, respectful, tolerant and decent to gay people, there would be no need for passive aggression, and the moments when gay couples are merely enjoying the same rights as straight couples wouldn't be read into as being passive aggressive.

It is all good and well to point fingers, encourage lurking in the shadows due to lack of acceptance and doing all of this in a judgemental manner, but until you really, and I mean REALLY put yourself in the shoes of others...if you stop and substitute your life and remove rights and freedom that you take for granted on a daily basis and allow yourself to TRULY feel how such a way of life would affect you, I unfortunately do not think that you will ever be able to see what the real issues are at hand.

I will know explain how I have formulated my stance upon which I have based my response to what you have had to say:

This thread had a huge impact on me and left me very deeply challenged. I decided to become "more of a gay activist" and the best place to start is at home...so I have shared this thread and the learnings that I have had with family and friends. My dear 71 year old Mom is the biggest homophobe around...and she walked right into my decision to educate her. She knows that I am a member on a site where I am good friends with predominantly gay members. She asked me how it was with my "gay friends"...the manner with which she said "gay" got my back up and it was a case of "burn baby, burn!" :biggrin1:

I immediately asked her why she had a need to bring their being gay into the equation and before she had a chance even reply I launched into the sharing on this thread and how I have been left deeply hurt and infuriated by such gross injustice and decency. Before not too long I had my Mom agreeing with me and she then pointed out a party that we had attended about ten years ago. 90% of the guests were gay and lesbian. They behaved in exactly the same way as everybody else: slow danced, held hands, kissed - nothing disrespectful or indecent in any way. However the general consensus was that it was deliberate attempt to throw their way of life and choices in the faces of the rest of the guests, i.e. passive aggressive. My Mom was one of those people and I remember how she complained about it for weeks thereafter.

The funny (and not in ha-ha, hee-hee) thing is once my Mom realised just how wrong it is to expect gay people to live their lives behind four walls, how they are entitled to the freedom, dignity and respect of that afforded to straight people, she ended up singing an entirely different tune about that party. What she once saw as disrespectful and passive aggressive has fallen by the wayside. Just because we may not like or agree with what we see doesn't make it passive aggressive, rude, disrespectful or throwing choices in the faces of others.

 

[B_All4show]

All4show, I respectfully would like you to know that even though I am not gay, your posts have offended me greatly. On the most part because of the way you are addressing us, not only are you being self righteous, but I would venture so far as to say that you are being condescending as well - you are speaking to us as if we are in fact children in need of an educator. Statements like "you are adults" coupled with the innuendo of "so therefore you ought to know better"; "this is called passive aggression" - I think we all know what passive aggression is and it would be so much more respectful to express it along the lines of "some gay people approach the situation in a passive aggressive manner where they...", coupled with "and it is done for attention." Really? How do you know it's done for attention? (I will get back to this point a little later) etc. etc.etc.

You have addressed us in a manner where you leave a sense of trying to make us aware that you know much better than everyone else (and I draw your attention to the fact that everytime I speak about "us", I mean all members) hence my venturing so far as to add condescending. We are all adults, so please address us like adults and not children...I am not dense and don't appreciate having things explained to me as if I am unable to put two and two together.

Your point about being condescending may be valid to some extent, but not self righteous. The reason I was condensending to any extent was that many gay people act out, get their desired response and then get offended. Come on.

 

[B_All4show]

This thread had a huge impact on me and left me very deeply challenged. I decided to become "more of a gay activist" and the best place to start is at home...so I have shared this thread and the learnings that I have had with family and friends. My dear 71 year old Mom is the biggest homophobe around...and she walked right into my decision to educate her. She knows that I am a member on a site where I am good friends with predominantly gay members. She asked me how it was with my "gay friends"...the manner with which she said "gay" got my back up and it was a case of "burn baby, burn!" :biggrin1: .

Listen Bigguy, I am more of a live and let be person, I hope I did not cause you any angst. What bothers me is that people claim not to understand the reaction they are trying to elicit. You agreed it is activism and agree with the content of my post, you just didn't like the way I said it.

BTW, your monther is 71, most likely unable to change. Love her for the good things about her. Also, you might want to think about getting your own place pretty soon.

 

[biguy2738]

Your point about being condescending may be valid to some extent, but not self righteous. The reason I was condensending to any extent was that may gay people act out, get their desired response and then get offended. Come on.

I respect you for your response, truly I do. My only problem with what you are saying is along the lines of: "What about the gay couples that aren't acting out (like in some of the experiences expressed in this thread)? I still feel that (like in the example of my Mom) what may be perceived as "acting out" is really seen that way due to lack of tolerance or prejudice.

I feel that to expect people to hide out behind "four walls" purely because they won't be accepted "out there" is too great a demand. In no way am I implying that this is something that you demand or expect, I just need to stress this point for the sake of education.

I strongly believe that most of our parents have failed us greatly when it comes to sexuality among other issues. (Forgive me, now I'm digressing completely ) I believe that in this day and age parents ought to start teaching their children that some men love women while others, love men. The same applying to women. This is a truth that can be taught way before the birds and bees talk. I feel that when it eventually comes to the birds and bees talk, parents could so easily lead their children to the point that when they are in their teens they are already reflecting on the question "Is it really sooooo bad to be gay?"

I think that this approach would help forge a society that breeds tolerance and acceptance. Within the household, children will have the security and self acceptance to know that being gay of any less value as being straight and above all else that they are loved by their parents and accepted in all entirety regardless of their orientation. I think that so much misery and self loathing can be avoided just by bringing those two truths into the heart of the family. End of rant. :biggrin1:

 

[biguy2738]

Listen Bigguy, I am more of a live and let be person, I hope I did not cause you any angst. What bothers me is that people claim not to understand the reaction they are trying to elicit. You agreed it is activism and agree with the content of my post, you just didn't like the way I said it.

BTW, your monther is 71, most likely unable to change. Love her for the good things about her. Also, you might want to think about getting your own place pretty soon.

Trust me, All4show, you'd have to ride over my nads with a steam roller in order to really cause me any angst. :biggrin1: I appreciate your concern though, thank you! I can agree with the content of your post to a certain extent - just to clarify - but that's fine, you are entitled to your opinions just as I am entitled to mine - the wonderful thing is that we are able to share, learn and grow...and that's great! :wink:

LUCKILY, though I cannot explain it, but my Mom is way more liberal in her senior years than she was in her youth - a seed was definitely planted, otherwise she would have gotten her back up with me as opposed to her agreement and then adding her own insights gained from our discussion. I don't need to get my own place as I am married and she lives on her own - she does spend Sundays with my wife and I which is always great. I'm fortunate enough for the two of them to get along so well that at times I need to remind her of the fact that my wife is the "evil daughter-in-law" and that I'm her son. :tongue:

 

[basque9]

Fifty or more years ago, two guys in the US would not have considererd holding hands on the boardwalk unless they were trying to evoke anger and hatred and incite violence. Those of us who evolved back then were secretive and cautious and we hid furtively behind doors and pretended many things. We learned by the daily slings and arrows what role was required to survive and we learned ways to exist beyond the grasp of the hatred and bigotry that permeated American society. We feared for our very jobs and livlihoods and even for our lives!
That things have changed for the better is undeniable, but for those of us who lived a different reality, that hateful memory lingers and will probably always be reflected in our approach to openess and the free expression of sexual pride!

 

[B_All4show]

I respect you for your response, truly I do. My only problem with what you are saying is along the lines of: "What about the gay couples that aren't acting out (like in some of the experiences expressed in this thread)?

As I said people should learn to live and let be.

I strongly believe that most of our parents have failed us greatly when it comes to sexuality among other issues. (Forgive me, now I'm digressing completely ) I believe that in this day and age parents ought to start teaching their children that some men love women while others, love men. The same applying to women. This is a truth that can be taught way before the birds and bees talk. I feel that when it eventually comes to the birds and bees talk, parents could so easily lead their children to the point that when they are in their teens they are already reflecting on the question "Is it really sooooo bad to be gay?"

I think that this approach would help forge a society that breeds tolerance and acceptance. Within the household, children will have the security and self acceptance to know that being gay of any less value as being straight and above all else that they are loved by their parents and accepted in all entirety regardless of their orientation. I think that so much misery and self loathing can be avoided just by bringing those two truths into the heart of the family. End of rant. :biggrin1:

You said you have kids, correct? I think bottom line parents want to have kids like them, but aviod the pitfalls they have had in their life.

 

[Male Bonding etc]

Okay, there was a former thread on the "Don't ask, don't tell" theme, but forgive me if I interject it here because I believe it is pertinent.

When the Clinton's backed off of their push to have gays accepted in the military, this DADT compromise seemed reasonable. It sounded better at the time than the out and out discrimination that had occurred before. Of course we know now that it has been a mistake.

It has helped raise awareness of the number of gays living in and out of the military (and the closet), but it has also helped maintain a premise that being gay is so dangerous that it dare not be spoken of... at least not favorably.

I took All4's point to be "here's reality folks; it's not pretty, but flaunt it and you know what's going to happen."

That in no way means that we should accept the status quo as tolerable or something to be maintained. We just have to recognize where we are as we work to change it.

 

[B_dxjnorto]

Gays are fighting the moray’s and morals of the society and many enjoy doing it.

So you say. Interesting malaprop. The word is mores, pronounced the way you spelled it.

 

[B_All4show]

Okay, there was a former thread on the "Don't ask, don't tell" theme, but forgive me if I interject it here because I believe it is pertinent.

When the Clinton's backed off of their push to have gays accepted in the military, this DADT compromise seemed reasonable. It sounded better at the time than the out and out discrimination that had occurred before. Of course we know now that it has been a mistake.

It has helped raise awareness of the number of gays living in and out of the military (and the closet), but it has also helped maintain a premise that being gay is so dangerous that it dare not be spoken of... at least not favorably.

I took All4's point to be "here's reality folks; it's not pretty, but flaunt it and you know what's going to happen."

Thanks for understanding what I meant and understanding I was not trying to be offensive.

I know someone here brought up the blacks as a comparison. I know he was talking about South Africa, but this may translate. Most black people here in America do not see racism to the extent there used to be, but.... Here is the comparison: you have some 20 year old black kid with tattoos, dread locks, a backwards ball cap and red handkerchief with baggy pants down to his nuts go try to find a job on Wall Street and then cry racism. “They should just accept me for who I am”.

 

[B_All4show]

So you say. Interesting malaprop. The word is mores, pronounced the way you spelled it.

No I really meant that gays are fighting eels everyday.


Thanks for the spell check man. I hate words that get by spell check.

 

[Male Bonding etc]

Okay, All4, I understand what you are trying to say again, but you are doing the same thing yourself. You know you are pushing buttons. So, I'm not going to run interference for you on this one. You're on your own.

 

[biguy2738]

I know someone here brought up the blacks as a comparison. I know he was talking about South Africa, but this may translate. Most black people here in America do not see racism to the extent there used to be, but.... Here is the comparison: you have some 20 year old black kid with tattoos, dread locks, a backwards ball cap and red handkerchief with baggy pants down to his nuts go try to find a job on Wall Street and then cry racism. “They should just accept me for who I am”.

I raised the point and my response to the example that you have given, is that there is a big difference between looking for a job, and such a person walking down the street or even a couple in that apparell walking down the street and being spat on, shouted at etc.

Job hunting and living out your life and inner reality are two very different things...which, frankly put, if it's within the law it's really nobody's business.

[EDIT] If onlookers find two gays kissing, holding hands etc. to be so offensive, there is a very easy yet respectful solution - look away - it's your problem, so you deal with it (not saying it to you but in general)

 

[wingnut84]

Thanks for understanding what I meant and understanding I was not trying to be offensive.

I know someone here brought up the blacks as a comparison. I know he was talking about South Africa, but this may translate. Most black people here in America do not see racism to the extent there used to be, but.... Here is the comparison: you have some 20 year old black kid with tattoos, dread locks, a backwards ball cap and red handkerchief with baggy pants down to his nuts go try to find a job on Wall Street and then cry racism. “They should just accept me for who I am”.

I see where you're coming from. Fruits can be annoying. I don't like the exagerrated faggotry exuded from certain individuals either. But I think what people here are trying to say is that sometimes two guys kissing eachother or holding hands or talking with a lisp is just them being them, not trying to "shove it in your face." And ultimately no one deserves to be harrassed or assaulted for being gay. Except for the little cocksucker who grabbed my ass while I was in a club in London just because I'd smiled at him a couple times (I was rolling balls; I smiled at everyone) and ruined my roll.