We amuse the President...

[Novaboy]

I always find it astonashing that any American would think they are over taxed. You don't have a clue as to what other countries pay in taxes. You get what you pay for. The states is "in theory" supposed to be this great country and land of opportunity but some people on this board want to throw any one or any state that is less fortunate than they are under the bus. It's a very contradictive attitude and very hard for Canada and Europe as well as many other places to understand. The very fact that anyone in the states would be against health care for all citzens is incomprensible.
Just my opinions of course.

 

[maxcok]

The very fact that anyone in the states would be against health care for all citzens is incomprensible.
Just my opinions of course.

Believe me, it's incomprehensible to many of us living here as well. No doubt the majority would feel that way if they hadn't been fed a shitload of propaganda sponsored by the for-profit Health Insurance companies and the Pharmaceutical Industry, and delivered by their sleazy minions in the right-wing media and the Republican party. It's disgusting.

 

[tripod]

Nice cut and paste Conman. Weren't we supposed to keep that shit to a minimum? Why don't you start a thread from your own words, or is that too hard?

Americans don't like paying taxes because we don't get a fucking thing for our money. We have shit public transit systems, shit bridges, shit schools, shit EVERYTHING!

In Europe and Canada, when you pay taxes, you get's to see your tax dollars at work. In America, all of our tax dollars go to subsidizing corporate welfare and the goddamn military.

You would think that the top "earners" or "robber barons" as I like to call them would be ecstatic to pay more money for corporate investment and to disenfranchise brown people out of their God given natural resources.

How are you fuckers gonna overthrow more countries and keep the rest of the world in poverty if you don't pay more in taxes?

Small family and subsistence farm strangling subsidies, Coup d'etats and welfare for big business don't fund themselves...

The majority of our tax dollars are funneled right back into the pockets of the uber wealthy.

Oh and conman, it's the TOP 2 PERCENT, NOT THE TOP 20 PERCENT brainiac. But your post sounded better with the 20% right?

 

[D_Sir Fitzwilly Wankheimer III]

Umm, that 'article' doesn't mention anything about states' finances. The real deal is that the Federal Government, essential via the power of the Senate, transfers a huge amount of money from the productive states, especially the large ones, and gives it to smaller states. This allows smaller states to lower their state taxes, since they get the feds to cover their asses.

These states perpetrating this scam turn out to be 'Red States'...read the link below discussing the Tax Foundation's annual study.Ezra Klein - The red state ripoff

Then explain California's and New York's situation. Are you telling me that they are more productive and thet the feds are taking their tax money. If they were productove they'd be in the black. what are you on I'd love to have some.

 

[joseph_hung]

Then explain California's and New York's situation. Are you telling me that they are more productive and thet the feds are taking their tax money. If they were productove they'd be in the black. what are you on I'd love to have some.

That chart shows how much each state contributes to federal taxes. here's another one (attached) that shows federal taxing/spending per state more specifically.

Either way, the main reason for California's current debt problems is that tax increases have to be approved by popular vote, whereas legislation authorizing spending just needs to be approved by their Congress. you can see how quickly something like that would create a problem.

Here in Texas our constitution doesn't even allow the state budget to exceed its revenue. But our government gets around that little roadblock by just having the local governments take on the debt instead. even though Texas' state government makes us appear to be more responsible, we actually have the 2nd highest State & Local debt in the country behind New York.

But either way, yes, both New York and California have higher GDP/capita than most (if not all) red states.

 

[bananaclubcock]

Then explain California's and New York's situation. Are you telling me that they are more productive and thet the feds are taking their tax money. If they were productove they'd be in the black. what are you on I'd love to have some.

That does explain California and New York's situation. They have among the highest productivity and income of any places in the world. Ever heard of Google? Apple? New York City? But their federal tax dollars go towards keeping the Republicans in Middle America subsidized. Those maps explain how the Federal Government takes from, among others, California and New York, which each only have 2 senators, and gives that money to places like KS, AL, AK, MS, ND, SD, MT, UT, etc. which also have the same 2 Senator representation but only a small fraction of the populace. It is simple income transfer

You are probably on dbol, sust, clen, HGH and whole host of other stuff that fucks with your health and seems to rot your brain. You probably know a lot about that. What you don't know is how you are on a short leash held by my more cynical Republican friends. I for one wouldn't like being someone else's bitch like that, but if it suits you, so be it.

 

[bananaclubcock]

Then explain California's and New York's situation. Are you telling me that they are more productive and thet the feds are taking their tax money. If they were productove they'd be in the black. what are you on I'd love to have some.

I realize the earlier link didn't give actual amounts. Here is another version of the same map with greater detail.

First of all, states with the most federal spending per dollar of Federal taxes paid:
Rank, State, Federal Spending per Dollar of Federal Taxes Paid
1. D.C. ($6.17)
2. North Dakota ($2.03)
3. New Mexico ($1.89)
4. Mississippi ($1.84)
5. Alaska ($1.82)
6. West Virginia ($1.74)
7. Montana ($1.64)
8. Alabama ($1.61)
9. South Dakota ($1.59)
10. Arkansas ($1.53)

States with the least Federal spending per dollar of Federal Taxes paid:

Rank, State, Federal Spending per Dollar of Federal Taxes Paid
1. New Jersey ($0.62)
2. Connecticut ($0.64)
3. New Hampshire ($0.68)
4. Nevada ($0.73)
5. Illinois ($0.77)
6. Minnesota ($0.77)
7. Colorado ($0.79)
8. Massachusetts ($0.79)
9. California ($0.81)
10. New York ($0.81)

That is why state budgets in these states are screwed. In addition to paying for their own services, they pay for a bunch of the services in these other states that you claim are doing so well with their budgets. You might say this is Federal, spending so what? I am afraid Federal spending means a lot of transfers to state governments or at least a state's economy. This is simple income transfer.

URL="Rank, State, Federal Spending per Dollar of Federal Taxes Paid"]Rank, State, Federal Spending per Dollar of Federal Taxes Paid[/URL]

 

[JetID]

You get what you pay for.

Not even close.

The more you make, the less you get for your taxes. The poor pay no taxes and reap all the benefits.

When I grew up, in Maryland, there was no tax on overtime. Even if that meant you had two jobs. Nothing over 40 hours was taxed. What that meant was the harder you worked the larger % of your money you kept. Not anymore.

Do I get back the $6000 I pay every year, in tax? No. I use the lines on the road and my military/police protection from enemies and USDA inspected hamburgers but the rest...

Health care, for everyone? We already have that. Every city/town has a clinic for low income people. Who pays for that? The wealthy. Can they use it? No. They could go, but they have to pay full price. the wealthy have insurance. The impoverished have clinics, where the wealthy doctors staff it for free and volunteer their time.

The health care bill only required that everyone pay for medical insurance. And no one got more care than they had before. Now it costs more for the poor to get coverage, than they paid before, to get that same care for free.

In Idaho, there is a point at which it hurts me dramatically, to "make" a slightly larger paycheck. Say I made $650 one week, working overtime. But next week, I work one extra hour of OT. Now I take home $585. WTF? I worked more hours than last week but made less? I made *just* enough to be penalized for it, but not enough to make up for the drop in pay.

And what did I get for the additional taxes? Better lines on the side of the road? More military protection? I love to pay for those things, because I use them. But I don't get anything extra for the additional amount I paid. Did I get what I paid for? No because it cost me more and I paid the same.

Health care for the poor? Can they not work it off, like the rest of us? Go to school to get a better job? Stay married so even with two $8 an hour jobs, they can raise a family? Would those things be the best decisions for their kids? Yes. Those are wise choices and they are the ones made by the people who deserve my help.

At what point does the single mom teach her kid the value of hard work, if she does not have a job? Daughter grows up and puts into practice, the values she learned from her parents. If that value is "go to work every day and do a good job and keep improving" then that is what she does.

If that value is "stay home and let her ex-husband do all the work to give her child support and apply for every gov't program available"... that's what she does.

It's great to have a safety net to catch you if you fall from aiming too high. But too many people don't fall into the safety net.

They jump into it.

I pay for them as well. Me and everyone on here, who has a job. I always vote for the school bonds because schools use money reasonably well. I don't know that I would vote to build a mission, unless it was on a farm or run by someone who could teach the homeless a skill they could use. Welding, soldering, farming, pipe fitting, machining... something to get them off the streets and into a career where they can pay their way.

Including their taxes.

 

[tripod]

The more you make, the less you get for your taxes. The poor pay no taxes and reap all the benefits.

What benefits? The asthmatic children due to their impoverished areas that they live in and diabletes from all of the unhealthy and processed food that the poor can afford?

Health care, for everyone? We already have that. Every city/town has a clinic for low income people. Who pays for that? The wealthy. Can they use it? No. They could go, but they have to pay full price. the wealthy have insurance. The impoverished have clinics, where the wealthy doctors staff it for free and volunteer their time.

You don't know what you are talking about.

Health care for the poor? Can they not work it off, like the rest of us?

Yeah, they'll do it with their imaginary job and maybe after they feed their unicorn. You're a fool.

It's great to have a safety net to catch you if you fall from aiming too high. But too many people don't fall into the safety net.

You simply need to get Jesus.

 

[joseph_hung]

Sorry to break it to you JetID, but not everyone does have health insurance. 15% of the entire country doesn't, and about as many don't have adequate insurance plans. And about twice that aren't treated as well as they should be under their plans. There's really no reason we shouldn't have a universal health care system. Those hospitals you're talking about generally run on fumes and will turn patients away unless they're really sick; no regular check-ups or anything to maybe prevent that person from getting sick to begin with.

I also have no problem with paying taxes toward programs like Social Security or Medicare, either, neither of which makes up as much as our military spending. Why? Because those are for our old, retired, or disabled who need it. Who actually complains about "having" to pay to help someone's grandma get by?

You also can't expect anyone with a low or tight income to go back to school, when you consider that the average tuition in the US is now over $8000/year. If enough people would shell out more tax dollars to make local or even state colleges free (like what's done in most of the developed world), maybe people wouldn't have to worry about funding welfare so much. And before the recession our unemployment rate was 4.5%, so you can't really try to paint entire demographics as not working when they obviously are; go figure, right?

Unfortunately, people also do find it necessary to stay married for financial reasons. That's why divorce rates have declined during the recession. And most low-income mothers aren't those "welfare queens" that stay home instead of working. Most single mothers also don't steal custody from the father or force them to pay child support. It's like you're just trying to list all the ignorant and inflammatory stereotypes being thrown around today.

Also from a macroeconomic point of view, it's in your best interest to pay taxes for our social services--however inadequate and mediocre they may be compared to the rest of the world--just because that means that 98% of the country has an established, organized infrastructure that leaves them with money to spend and keep the exchange rates from going to hell. I also enjoy not having to pay tolls every time I reach an intersection on the road. I also enjoy having a public power grid that allows multiple energy companies to compete. I also enjoy DARPA giving birth to the internet, and Medicare for making sure my grandparents have enough money left over for all their "excess" expenses; you know, like food and air conditioning.

And about those services that you pay for and don't get? Suck it up. That's one of the tradeoffs for living in a civilized information society.

 

[Tee&A]

Reading over this thread, I am reminded of why I want to move back to Europe. Some of you are misinformed, heartless fuckers who believe everything you're spoon fed by a bunch of fearmongering blowhards without bothering to do a speck of research. I guess what Dr. Martin Luther King Jr said is true: there really is nothing more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

Novaboy, after living in Germany where the tax rate is roughly 70%, I don't think we are overtaxed in this country, and I also think it's appalling that many Americans can't "afford" to be sick. Please don't believe that all Americans buy into the same rhetoric drivel spewed in the media. All of us don't.

 

[cruztbone]

CONNTOM is apparently a high official in Linda McMahon's losing senate campaign. i can understand why he wants to do everything possible to blame Obama, as he is quite likely one of those making more than a quarter of a million dollars a year who will lose his Bush tax break. My heart just bleeds for you, tom, along with Linda M (who truly qualifies an a nut job) and alll your fellow tea party twinkies.
President Obama has provided tax relief to those of us who arent wealthy , but go to work every day and do our best to make ends meet. As a veteran public school teacher in CA, we are rewarding him with returning our Democratic senator Boxer and our congressional delegation, overwhelmingly Democratic, to congress next month. We are also relecting for a third term after an absence of nearly 30 years, Jerry Brown as governor. CHEW ON THAT , CONNTOM!!

 

[Novaboy]

Novaboy, after living in Germany where the tax rate is roughly 70%, I don't think we are overtaxed in this country, and I also think it's appalling that many Americans can't "afford" to be sick. Please don't believe that all Americans buy into the same rhetoric drivel spewed in the media. All of us don't.[/QUOTE]

Oh I know, the USA seems to be split right down the middle on these ideas. I meant many people in the New Mexico, Arizona and Utah of all places that had many questions about Canada and all wanted the health care plan. I always find the USA to be a country of great contradictions. The people at the border sometimes treat everyone like criminals and make you feel you don't want to go. Once you're there, the people are friendly. The National parks are out of this world. They are world leaders in so many ways and yet when it comes to health care, gay rights, the randomness of their criminal court sentencing,....like I said, many contradictions.