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This seems almost unbelievable.It seems that the Cameron was expected to sign up to harmonised fiscal policies for Britain, not just the EZ17 - which was never on the agenda anyway..
It was all fairly predictable,the response from Europe, about us being bad Europeans.As you say the crisis facing the Euro isn't even our problem despite the UK contributing (financially) to its on going debacle.Just posted this in the other thread, and I'll say it again here:
It seems that the Cameron was expected to sign up to harmonised fiscal policies for Britain, not just the EZ17 - which was never on the agenda anyway.
Seems odd that a summit to save the euro has required more loss of sovereignty from almost all EU members, yet provided very little progress in solving the debt or growth problems. Admittedly, there'll be closer economic integration among the 17 (and the others) - but I'm still unsure as to why Britain was expected to sign upto this in the first place, since we're not even part of the Euro crisis. Will be interesting to see what the Czechs and Swedes do.
It's also annoying that many Europeans are blaming us for trying to scuttle the EU, when we're doing no such thing. We're all in favour of new measures for closer harmonisation among the Eurozone, we're also in favour of rescuing the Euro. We are not trying to stop the 17 moving forwards - we just don't want to be a part of that aspect ourselves. So what's the problem?
Try focusing on Europe's own responsibility for their sovereign debt crisis, and stop blaming the UK. Also, address the need for the ECB to act as lender of last resort, issue eurobonds, and have the ECB intervene to help the struggling nations. None of these show any sign of happening as yet - apart from a meagre .25% cut in interest rates which is hardly going to solve everything.
Certainly seems like it - altho it's hard trying to piece the info together.This seems almost unbelievable.
Are you sure of this, joll?
The UK would have the loss of sovereignty that goes with being an EZ member, without the benefits, small as they now seem.
He didn't declare British interests higher than European ones. He was fully supportive of attempts to shore up the eurozone - specifically in terms of EZ integration (plus other measures the eurozone seems strangely reluctant to enact). We merely stated that we didn't want to be part of further financial integration, which is necessary only for the eurozone.well done cameron? Mmmhh dont know... He keeped the british nationalism high and deklared british intrests higher then europes... He got what he want. He didnt had to change the eu contracts. So still every eu desition has to be confirmed by all countries and not by only 80% of all countries... Congrats!
But what is the price?
The ez can make desitions now by their own and the ez will as less care for british intrests as cameron did it at this meeting... Also the ez is 75% of the eu gdp... That means the ez makes now the desitions for the eu and britain has nothing to say anymore...
Why should the ez try to make rules for the eu from now on? We make our own rules and who wanna trade with us has to follow our rules...
So yes well done cameron... Well done for the ez
Whaaat?! Look in the mirror, dude. And it's never a good idea to involve the world wars in debates such as this.Yes this behaviour is shit! In the last 100years you learned nothing... This british nationalistic thinking was one reason for the first world war and with this thinking you try to lead the world in the next desaster.
Dude - it's a treaty about financial measures to save the euro and to stop the crisis happening again. We just decided to stay out of it, as it wasn't appropriate for us. The whole of Europe isn't 'standing against us'; you're just getting on with eurozone matters by yourselves; well fine.Now its an united europe that stands against britain and the price of lost political power that britain will have to pay will be huge
There was no way we could've signed up to it, Drift. Cameron was as keen as anyone find a solution for the euro (which has yet to be found, btw) and to allow the ez17 to integrate fully. But expecting Britain to sign up to much closer fiscal integration ourselves (unless I'm missing something?) was never part of the deal.Cameron has handled this entire issue like an amateur.
I have already said that he does not impress me. He is vain and stupid. What sort of moron goes into negotiations with a sine qua non demand? It may impress the wretched little tory shits in parliament who make Jason look like a Europhile, but it set him up in these negotiations to look like a fool. And that is precisely what he looks like now.
Merkozy were able to present Cameron as a selfish twat looking to make ground on UK issues on the back of the crisis that faces Europe, which does affect the UK. These negotiations needed everyone to be seen to be working together, Cameron insisted on unilateral concessions before anyone was seen to be working towards the solution. Now the UK is not even at the table.
Next time, David dear boy, take a grown up to the negotiations with you.
I disagree Euro. Sure, the banking crisis in the US (and UK) was a big problem and kicked off the whole financial mess of the past few years (altho Germany's banks were in an even worse state than the US', apparently).http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/10/business/global/european-leaders-agree-on-fiscal-treaty.html?hp
Sorry Joll, but Perados is right in that most of the financial mess that amplified the problems of the EZ has been imported from the US through the troian horse of the City.
Bravo Angela, I will write her a letter once more!
I disagree Euro. Sure, the banking crisis in the US (and UK) was a big problem and kicked off the whole financial mess of the past few years (altho Germany's banks were in an even worse state than the US', apparently).
However, the position the eurozone now finds itself in, is to a great extent self-inflicted: