Well done Mr Cameron!!

[Perados]

Ain't it a great shame that everybody in Europe doesn't do JUST what Germany wants.Heaven forbid that we have a different opinion and have the front to speak out in support of it.I guess being treated as second class citizens is what being a Turk living in Germany must feel like!!

Second class? Every turk with a german passport has 100% influence to you parlament...

Every muslim and hindu has to get ruled by british lords and bishops... Talk about second class

And the german model offers that the strong support the weak. Also no one should run a system that ruins others... The opposit of britains point of view

 

[dandelion]

People who work in the Square Mile are not elected politians.If the German's and French are so keen on handing out patronizing lectures to the British,how come they ALLOWED contries like Greece and Portugal to run up such depts??

Didnt some bank rearrange Greece's debt so that on the accounts much of it disappeared? Greece and Portugal borrowed from private banks happy to lend to them. Without powers to contro this, what was the EU to do? So now they are seeking more powers to prevent it happening again...isnt that a good thing? So the Uk does want overborrowing and bancruptcy to contiue?

one of the main reasons the EU was conceived was to insure that WW2 should never happen again and that Fascism and Communism never again displace Parliamentary Democracy and the freedom of the individual.

Certainly to prevent ww3, but I dont recall anything about fostering democracy.

The globe needs fewer and bigger financial centres.

In this day of computerised transactions and online everything I dont really see why we need any financial 'centres'.

Almost everyone talks of "Britain and Europe" - not "Britain and the rest of Europe" or "Britain and the continent".

presumably becaue the words 'the rest of' would be entirely redundant in context?

they've decided to consolidate Frankfurt and Paris instead, with the ECB (obviously), regulations fettering the City of London, and also moving the Financial Standards HQ (not sure of the exact name) from London to Paris

Assuming Britain remains in the EU then all regulations relating to banks will apply equally in all countries. So London wil be no more 'fettered' than Frankfurt or Paris. Only if the UK departs the EU could it be placed at a disadvantage.

the whole finance industry creates in britain around 30%... And "the city" stands in this case for this industry
And now the shock... These 30% only creates 15% of the jobs

You mean people in the financial sector get paid twice as much as everyone else...or at least some of them get paid much more than everyone else?

Well, until now no Turk has blown up the Berlin U-Bahn as your Paki (or whatever) people - born and raised in Britain - have done in the London Underground.

I guess that is because germany hasnt invaded Turkey?

 

[eurotop40]

...
I guess that is because germany hasnt invaded Turkey?

Well, these guys were British subjects, so it is very suprising.
Most of the Turks in Germany are not even German citizens.

 

[superbot]

Second class? Every turk with a german passport has 100% influence to you parlament...

Every muslim and hindu has to get ruled by british lords and bishops... Talk about second class

And the german model offers that the strong support the weak. Also no one should run a system that ruins others... The opposit of britains point of view

The House of Lords includes Muslims Hindus Sikhs Jews etc and has done for years and all carry the titles of Lord or Baroness.Comment if you must, but at least ATTEMPT to get facts correct!

 

[Jason]

In this day of computerised transactions and online everything I dont really see why we need any financial 'centres'.

They have to operate within the legal system of a sovereign state. They therefore need a business address in that jurisdiction. It is possible for a major financial institution to have an address in a jurisdiction, eg the City of London, but to have its main offices in a different nation. It is now perfectly possible for the UK to attract EZ business which will not physically move, just change its place of registration. The UK would not benefit from more jobs in the UK but would benefit from tax on their activities. Because they would be working within English law and in sterling it is marginally easier to do business with UK companies, so there would be a small boost to UK business.

London is the biggest financial centre, generating around 1/10th of UK's GDP. Other UK finance brings it up to about 1/8th of GDP. For every pound directly attributable to finance there is around another pound in supporting industries. Around a quarter of the UK's GDP is directly or indirectly attributable to finance, basically to the City. We in the UK are absolutely dependent on the health of the City. The UK sinks or swims on this.

The risk for the UK is to lose influence by being outside the EZ. However The potential is to get EZ finance, and the trump card is precisely that the UK is outside of a failing currency and the absurd regulations of the EZ.

Cameron had to veto the new Treaty, or refuse to sign up, or whatever expression you want to use.

 

[dandelion]

Well, these guys were British subjects, so it is very suprising.
Most of the Turks in Germany are not even German citizens.

These people did what they did because of their belief that Britain had invaded a country dear to them. If the Turks believed Germany was similarly guilty, wouldnt similar things be happening there?

London is the biggest financial centre, generating around 1/10th of UK's GDP. Other UK finance brings it up to about 1/8th of GDP. For every pound directly attributable to finance there is around another pound in supporting industries. Around a quarter of the UK's GDP is directly or indirectly attributable to finance, basically to the City. We in the UK are absolutely dependent on the health of the City. The UK sinks or swims on this.

When you are in a hole, stop digging? We must stop putting resources into this industry!

 

[798686]

Assuming Britain remains in the EU then all regulations relating to banks will apply equally in all countries. So London wil be no more 'fettered' than Frankfurt or Paris. Only if the UK departs the EU could it be placed at a disadvantage.

Yes and no - the laws would be the same, but it would make much more of an impact proportionally, since such a large percentage of financial transactions within the EU take place here (much more than Frankfurt, etc.).

When you are in a hole, stop digging? We must stop putting resources into this industry!

True. There is a general attempt from what I can tell (and what I've read, lol) to diversify, rebuild our manufacturing and components industries along with science and tech, etc. But I suspect it will take a while (decade? generation?) to make the transition to a more balanced situation, so in the meantime it makes sense to protect what assets/resources we have, and use them to our best advantage.

 

[Drifterwood]

This is pathetic, even for you.

There's more to the holes in their cheese.

 

[Perados]

The House of Lords includes Muslims Hindus Sikhs Jews etc and has done for years and all carry the titles of Lord or Baroness.Comment if you must, but at least ATTEMPT to get facts correct!

Lol in the house of lords do "old british families" own a seat also own 4 bishops a seat for life time... And i have doubts that a hindu or moslem feels represented by them. They arent christians and these old families arent part of their cultur...
So yes they are second class people in britain

Looks like you should learn a bit more

@dandelion
It doesnt says that some people earn more in this industry... It could also be that the share holders get more

But it shows that way less people, as in other industries, have a profit of every traded euro...

And as higher the income as lower the consume in rate... Also not good for the economy

 

[eurotop40]

These people did what they did because of their belief that Britain had invaded a country dear to them. If the Turks believed Germany was similarly guilty, wouldnt similar things be happening there?

Probably it was not only a belief. Still, they were British subjects because born in GB, as far as I remember, which is very interesting. Jus soli is somehow contradictory to British sense of superiority.
Germany, Switzerland etc. do not give citizenship to foreign people born there. You need to get naturalized, which entails an effort to declare yourself belonging to these societies.

 

[ConanTheBarber]

Jus soli is somehow contradictory to British sense of superiority.

This kind of remark is becoming really boring.
You accuse some of the British posters of being chauvinistic, but none of them have a patch on you lately.

 

[Jason]

There's more to the holes in their cheese.

ROFL :biggrin1:

I heard some talking head this evening - I didn't hear his name - say we in the UK want to be "more like Switzerland :wink:... but not Swiss of course. "

I think the Swiss achievement is remarkable. The nation forged a couple of centuries ago has an inspirational history of self-reliance and co-operation and today offers real innovation in direct democracy. In many ways the UK and the whole world can learn from Switzerland.

Yet part of the learning process has to be a willingness to see what is wrong as well as what is right - and the former in no way diminishes the latter. So yes indeed the UK should learn from Switzerland, but imitate the cheese not the hole.

 

[Drifterwood]

I think the Swiss achievement is remarkable. The nation forged a couple of centuries ago has an inspirational history of self-reliance and co-operation and today offers real innovation in direct democracy. In many ways the UK and the whole world can learn from Switzerland.

Well, Euro can give us the lesson, but Switzerland to me is a type of anti nation. They created a federal republic through cooperative pragmatism to be properly a Confederation of Helvetii. Precisely what you don't want in Europe, Jase :wink:.

 

[eurotop40]

BTW, Merkozy's fiscal policy treaty has been practically copied from Swiss regulations.

 

[superbot]

Lol in the house of lords do "old british families" own a seat also own 4 bishops a seat for life time... And i have doubts that a hindu or moslem feels represented by them. They arent christians and these old families arent part of their cultur...
So yes they are second class people in britain

Looks like you should learn a bit more

@dandelion
It doesnt says that some people earn more in this industry... It could also be that the share holders get more

But it shows that way less people, as in other industries, have a profit of every traded euro...

And as higher the income as lower the consume in rate... Also not good for the economy

Again,check your references as they're and least 30 years out of date.Besides, I'm hardly going to take a lesson about race relations from a German national,bearing in mind what was being in the name of 'race relations' a mere twenty years before I was born.
The UK is infinately more culturally diverse than practically any any other European country,so if the afore mentioned are (according to you) so misrepresented in Parliament and therefore marginalized,why do so many choose to make Great Britain their home??

 

[dandelion]

why do so many choose to make Great Britain their home??

Because there are lots of employers unwilling to pay UK citizen level wages but who are happy to employ immigrants dead cheap?

 

[superbot]

Because there are lots of employers unwilling to pay UK citizen level wages but who are happy to employ immigrants dead cheap?

Er, I think you'll find that it's the Asian employers who are largely guilty of that,frequently sourcing Asian staff and paying Asian wages.

 

[dandelion]

I see today we had some explanation of the fact Clegg initially supported Cameron, but then spoke disapprovingly and absented himself from the debate on Cameron's visit to europe, presumably so he wouldnt have to say what he thought. It was reported that the events at the euro meeting sounded very different when Cameron reported his version than when other countries reported events.

There seems to be acceptance by the UK that a group of 26 would be able to use EU institutions to procede with their treaty, notwithdtanding Cameron's denial that they can.

It was reported that Cameron was essentially offered a guarantee that the UK would not be disadvantaged by entering a new treaty, but he was holding out for special status for the Uk finance sector. Hardly possible.

 

[Perados]

Again,check your references as they're and least 30 years out of date.Besides, I'm hardly going to take a lesson about race relations from a German national,bearing in mind what was being in the name of 'race relations' a mere twenty years before I was born.
The UK is infinately more culturally diverse than practically any any other European country,so if the afore mentioned are (according to you) so misrepresented in Parliament and therefore marginalized,why do so many choose to make Great Britain their home??

I know you had some reformations that made your system a bit more demokratic and fair... But there are still families that own a seat in the under house and 4 bishops, arent there?
So it isnt fair for every british with a imigration background...

And i never talked about how someone has to treat a different "race"... It was you who start talking about "turk in germany"
And even now i talk about different culturs not races...
I remember every day what my country did, and im happy that the most germans learned out of their history... Do you? - atm i dont think so

 

[Jason]

but he was holding out for special status for the Uk finance sector. Hardly possible.

The "special status" is in fact that extended to the City of London by almost every nation in the world, ie the ability to deal in their currencies. The City does much business in US$, yen, Swiss Francs and almost every currency that is freely traded. At present it also does business in euros.

The new concept is that euro transactions must go through a EuroZone bank. It is hard to overstate how restrictive this is, and how unusual. It is something associated with currencies that have substantial restrictions on trade, eg the Chinese yuan, or the currencies of the old iron curtain nations. It would mean at a stroke that the UK would lose most trade in euros - as indeed would the USA and every other nation. It is a fundamental breach of the free trade agreements which are at the foundation of the EU (and EEC).

It is beyond belief that the EU nations did not agree to this. It is such a minimal request that it should have been automatic to grant it - not just for the UK but for every non euro EU nation and indeed all nations around the globe. Instead they seem to be launching the euro on a path of limited convertibility - only an EZ bank can convert it or trade in it. This point has had minimal media coverage yet it is a key one. It appears that a key plank in saving the euro is to give it the sort of protection afforded the rouble.

The idea of the EU as a nascent EUSSR (instead of USE) is an idea considered cranky even by most Eurosceptics. Yet nothing else seems to justify their determination to stand firm on this point. I suggest in this decision we have an idea how the euro could be saved WITHOUT eurobonds - limit the convertibility of the currency..