We'll Nuke Poland

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Jason, Aug 15, 2008.

  1. Jason

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    The English tabloid "The Sun" is running tomorrow with the headline "We'll Nuke Poland". This is their interpretation of a Russian statement today that Poland has "made herself a target".

    A Russian spokesman on the BBC a few minutes ago has said that Georgia will be as nothing compared with the Ukraine if the West persists in encouraging the Ukraine to look towards links with the West. He said "that would be nuclear war".

    Russian spokesmen have today spoken of their concern about the treatment of ethnic Russians in Estonia and Latvia.

    Presumably after a few days Russia will "honour" the ceasefire to the extent of pulling back to South Ossetia and Abkhazia. From there they can invade Georgia at any time that suits, and will interfere with everything. There is a theory that they will murder or destabilise Saakashvili and instal a puppet government.

    How frightened are we?

    I've worked in Russia, Poland, the Czech Republic and done quite a bit of travelling in the region. I believe Russia would do what they threaten. I'm terrified.
     
  2. D_Davy_Downspout

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    LOL, nobody is getting nuked. Experts on Iran don't even think THEY would use a nuke if they had one, and they're way farther along the "nutjob" scale than Russia. This is all posturing, calm down, don't worry about it.

    The only country that has used nukes is the US, and will likely be the only country that ever will at this point. Nukes cease to be a weapon if both sides have them (and a means of delivery of course).
     
  3. Deno

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    What is with Russia and all this posturing lately.
     
  4. D_Davy_Downspout

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    PR. They're on the rise, what with being an energy exporter these days, and the US being perceived as weak and over-extended. Putin wants the Russian reputation of old back, and he wants the influence that comes with it.
     
  5. Flashy

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    Putin is a thug.

    H has lead Russia back to its old evil ways.

    Ironically, this is all being spurred by the newfound power based on the money being made by their energy industry. They are nothing but a government controlled pseudo capitalist nation...none of that wealth is filtering down to the average person. It is in the hands of a very few, and much of the energy sector's profits are being plowed into their military.

    They have Europe by the balls in regards to energy.

    They are very upset by the "Sarmatia" consortium made up of hmmmmmm....Azerbaijan, Georgia, Poland, Ukraine and Lithuania....all countries they are, have or will be threatening with invasion soon enough..that transfers petroleum from places like Azerbaijan and eventualyl kHazakhstan to bypass Russia.

    Of course the Russians do not like that, since that will lesson the nascent new power they have gained in Europe. NATO, mainly Europe, does like that....but once again, Western Europe is comprised of nations that behave like pussies when the Russians get angry.

    It seems that only Britain, and the Eastern European nations understand that the only way to stand up to the russians is as a united front with strength...but considering how low military expenditures are in Europe at the moment, and they have been living under the delusion that the "Evil Empire" would not return after 1992, they as usual, are unprepared to face the Russian threat.

    Naturally, of course, Western Europe will begin calling on the barbaric, militaristic and horrible US to ramp back up our defense of Europe since the mean old Russian Bear is starting to herald its return in quite a nasty way.


    If we Want to shut the Russians back down again, the West should come up with a viable, modern, energy plan. If the world does not need the only thing the Russians have to sell, back down the toilet they go.

    Their threatening of Poland, the Baltic States and Ukraine, is utterly despicable, not to mention, reminiscent of Hitler.

    Fact is, Russia could probably get away with attacking our Baltic NATO allies, and tbh, NATO has become so weak, you get the feeling that Germany and France would hand them right back to the Russians.

    Putin is a monster. Seriously...does anyone think he hasn't considered attacking the BAltic states, gambling that NATO would not risk a possible third war over these micro-states, even though they are part of the alliance? Would be we be surprised?

    German exports to Russia are 300 billion a year...so they cannot piss off the Russians, and Russian imports for eastern central and western europe are massive


    Fact is, they are complaining about us in Georgia, while they are trying to do a similar thing with Venezuela. I am sure they would be none to pleased if we rolled in there and decimated Chavez and his regime.

    This is the development of a new version of the Cold War, unfortunately...how far it goes, I do not know.


    Frankly, here is the US, it is time to come up with our own "Marshall Plan" to transfer our country to a new age of energy consumption.

    A comprehensive 10 year plan, of new Nuclear plants, massive solar, hydro, thermo and wind power, combined with tax incentives for people who purchase personal solar panels or wind power or generators, combined with a ban on all non-hybrid engines produced by US car companies within 5 years.

    This can be done, if every citizen with a vote got off their ass, and demanded it.


    Then we can tell places like Russia and the middle east to go fuck themselves.

    (IMO)
     
  6. Guy-jin

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    The statements are political. They're trying to frighten the Polish public into vetoing their government's agreement to start installation of the American missile shield.

    Russia doesn't like the missile shield because they see it as the end of MAD and have no response to it other than to try to prevent it.

    They are also using the excuse of "defending ethnic Russians/other ethnicities within Russia" as an excuse to invade to see their own purposes fulfilled.

    People who think the invasion of Georgia was some kind of charitable act to protect the Ossetians are kidding themselves. It had far more to do with NATO backing Georgia in the forseeable future and inevitably installing the missile shield system there as well. That and, of course, the Azerbaijan oil pipeline that runs through Georgia, bypasses the Middle East and Russia, and supplies Western Europe with a great deal of its oil.

    Anyway, they aren't going to nuke Poland. What they're saying is that if the missile defense shield is put in place in Poland, that will make Poland a primary initial target in a potential future nuclear war. And trying to press the Polish people into forcing their government not to agree to letting America install the shield.

    Russia's not the irrelevant giant we've been led to believe she became twenty years ago.
     
  7. ZOS23xy

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    Part of the problem is the current tard in office in the USA. He has no diplomatic touch, and carries on like a schoolyard bully when he has a disagreement.
     
  8. jumbo747jet

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    I believe that the biggest problem here is that Russia isn't a democracy. Yes, the old communist regime fell but it was replaced by leaders who were very privileged in the old system and who are not willing to give up those priviliges. I could be wrong, but I don't think russians in general feel that they gained independence when they became Russia, instead of the dominating country within the Soviet union. I think they feel that they have lost territory, power and respect when other countries which were part of the Soviet union have declared independance.
    Leaders in Russia don't seem to realise that those annected countries always wanted their independance and today fear Russia, making them seek guarantees from West and NATO that they will never again be invaded.

    I think Russia wants good relations with it's neighbours, but rather than trying to be the good neighbour it is behaving like the school yard bully, trying to gain respect from others.
    Respect is earned, not demanded. The sort of respect a bully has is based only on fear and a long way from actual respect.

    When it comes to countries abiding by international law there is of course the problem with USA.
    When invading Iraq, the american government decided to disregard the U.N. security council claiming it was defending it's own interests and that the regime in Iraq at the time were terrorists.
    Today the russians view the leaders of some former Soviet states as terrorists and they feel they have the right to protect their interests.
    The international community will of course demand that Russia respect international law, but I fear the russian leaders will feel that they have the same right to "defend themselves" as the americans have done.

    I have no good solution to this whole problem but I think the best thing the rest of the world can do is to act friendly towards Russia so that they don't feel so left out and ignored.
    Let's hope the russian people get real democracy and can elect leaders who are not only trying to keep their own priveliges but who will make the whole nation prosper.
     
  9. B_Artful Dodger

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    Its true. Putins gone, but the new presedent (it doesn't even matter what his name is) is his puppet...
     
  10. jumbo747jet

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    Putin is very far from gone. He's no longer the president but he's now the primeminister and still very much a political power.
     
  11. ZOS23xy

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    And I have to point out the irony of George Bush telling another country that they shouldn't invade another country.

    George W. is a thick skulled man.
     
  12. Jason

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    Just over 24 hours after I started this post Russia is continuing its advance into Georgia in breach of the ceasefire treaty they have signed. The BBC is carrying pictures of civilians including children shot by the Russians. They have destroyed a key Georgian railway bridge. They are 20 miles from Tibilisi. They are setting fire to farm land. The survival of the Georgian state is in real doubt.

    The west is getting bored. Most of the day this hasn't even been the top news story in Britain. In Britain our prime minister Gordon Brown has had next to nothing to say on the matter (the most charitable thing to say is that he's on his holiday). Curiously it is the leader of the opposition David Cameron who has got himself out to Georgia.

    No-one seems to be saying much about the kremlinology behind this. Putin appears de facto to hold the power with his former junior Medvedev as titular president. This is seriously weird. The invasion plays well in Russia to popular nationalism and is a source of national pride which seems to go some way to redress what Russia saw as the humiliations of the 1990s. Presumably it is boosting the popularity of Putin and Medvedev and therefore their hold on power, which is why they have gone down this route; possibly it is argely an adventure by army commanders.

    The Russian army is doing things which Putin and Medvedev say it isn't. Maybe they are lying. Maybe the Russian army is not fully under their control. Logically these are the two possibilities.

    The Ukraine seems today to be making belligerent noises. Surprising.

    In Poland people are frightened. What is feared is not a nuclear strike but simply that the tanks may roll in. The fear is that either Putin or the army commanders are not acting rationally and that what they do may not relate to any sort of sense. There are Russian tanks stationed close to the border, and no natural barrier between Belarus and Poland.
     
  13. Notaguru2

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    No ones getting nuked. The only country that is in the practice of nuking people is the U.S. and Poland is an ally... so they're safe.
     
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