Well, what do you think about bushs apology?

SpeedoGuy

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Originally posted by Dorset+Sep 15 2005, 04:02 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dorset &#064; Sep 15 2005, 04:02 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Lex@Sep 15 2005, 03:31 PM
Forget all this Dem/Rep stuff
[post=343503]Quoted post[/post]​
This is very true, once the flooding started the politics should have stopped for a while to get it sorted, the reaction to this event has nothing to do with party views or policies and both Republicans and Democrates should have pulled together to show unity over the matter

It&#39;s horrible that this kind of event can end in political squabbles played out through the media. A disaster like this doesn&#39;t deserve to be reduced to a political feeding frenzy
[post=343519]Quoted post[/post]​
[/b][/quote]

Its a shame because it shows how divided the US is these days.

SG
 

VeeP

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Originally posted by SpeedoGuy@Sep 15 2005, 09:54 AM

Like offering them the option of enlisiting for a tour in the middle east?

Sounds like a GOP talking point to me. Specifics please.

SG
[post=343494]Quoted post[/post]​
Who said anything about the war? :eyes:

The poverty rate in 1996 was 13.7% with &#036;191b (12.2% of budget) spent on entitlement programs. The current poverty rate is 12.7% with the 2006 budget calling for &#036;368b (14.6%) to be spent on entitlement programs.

Obviously, spending more money isn&#39;t the answer...
 

surferboy

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I think Kanye West said it best, "George Bush doesn&#39;t care about black people." I promise you, if those were lower-middle class white people, our government would have been there immediately. And I totally agree with you, Jana. His "apology" isn&#39;t an apology. He&#39;s a politician. He says what he needs to say to get his popularity points back up.
 

yaoifun

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As was said, the help was too late. Everyone in power screwed up (surprise surprise&#33;&#33;&#33;) and just like the help was too late, the apology was too. I don&#39;t completely blame Bush (I mean I DO blame him, don&#39;t think I like him&#33;) but apparently the gov. of louisiana and the mayor of N.O. both rejected his help at first, saying things were under control. water flooding 80% of a city doesn&#39;t look like control to me, but be that as it may, what Bushie and Brownie SHOULD have done was go there anyway, assess it themselves (afterall, they have the higher power) and see for themselves what this "control" was...and if they did (i dont know if they did) and STILL didn&#39;t help, which I assume happened, I&#39;m even more disgusted.

Politicians, Political Parties and racial cards aside - The amount of help, the time it took to get there, the sad excuse of an apology - all were atrocious. Am I wrong?
 

SpeedoGuy

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Originally posted by VPee@Sep 15 2005, 05:30 PM

The poverty rate in 1996 was 13.7% with &#036;191b (12.2% of budget) spent on entitlement programs. The current poverty rate is 12.7% with the 2006 budget calling for &#036;368b (14.6%) to be spent on entitlement programs.

Obviously, spending more money isn&#39;t the answer...
[post=343529]Quoted post[/post]​

12.7% and climbing for the 4th year in a row, along with the number of Americans without health insurance. The worst increases were among homes with children. This despite jobs added to the economy.

SG
 

Lex

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From CNN.com

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/15/katrina.response/index.html

Originally posted by CNN.com
Leadership vacuum stymied aid offers
Doctor: Officials gave hospital staffers mops as people died

Thursday, September 15, 2005; Posted: 8:09 p.m. EDT (00:09 GMT)

A doctor reported that sick people languished in the New Orleans airport while he mopped floors.


(CNN) -- As violence, death and misery gripped New Orleans and the surrounding parishes in the days after Hurricane Katrina, a leadership vacuum, bureaucratic red tape and a defensive culture paralyzed volunteers&#39; attempts to help.

Doctors eager to help sick and injured evacuees were handed mops by federal officials who expressed concern about legal liability. Even as violence and looting slowed rescues, police from other states were turned back while officials squabbled over who should take charge of restoring the peace.

Warehouses in New Orleans burned while firefighters were diverted to Atlanta for Federal Emergency Management Agency training sessions on community relations and sexual harassment. Water trucks languished for days at FEMA&#39;s staging area because the drivers lacked the proper paperwork.

Consider the stories of these frustrated volunteers:

# Dr. Bong Mui and his staff, evacuated with 300 patients after three hellish days at Chalmette Medical Center, arrived at the New Orleans airport, and were amazed to see hundreds of sick people. They offered to help. But, the doctor told CNN, FEMA officials said they were worried about legal liability. "They told us that, you know, you could help us by mopping the floor." And so they mopped, while people died around them. "I started crying," he recalled. "We felt like we could help, and were not allowed to do anything."

# Steve Simpson, sheriff of Loudoun County, Virginia, sent 22 deputies equipped with food and water to last seven days. Their 14-car caravan, including four all-terrain vehicles, was on the road just three hours when they were told to turn back. The reason, Simpson told CNN: A Louisiana state police official told them not to come. " I said, "What if we just show up?&#39; He says, &#39;You probably won&#39;t get in.&#39; " Simpson said he later learned a dispute over whether state or federal authorities would command the law enforcement effort was being ironed out that night. But no one ever got back to him with the all-clear.

# FEMA halted tractor trailers hauling water to a supply staging area in Alexandria, Louisiana, The New York Times quoted William Vines, former mayor of Fort Smith, Arkansas, as saying. "FEMA would not let the trucks unload," he told the newspaper. "The drivers were stuck for several days on the side of the road" because, he said, they did not have a "tasker number." He added, "What in the world is a tasker number? I have no idea. It&#39;s just paperwork and it&#39;s ridiculous."

# Firefighters who answered a nationwide call for help were sent to Atlanta for FEMA training sessions on community relations and sexual harassment. "On the news every night you hear &#39;How come everybody forgot us?&#39; " Pennsylvania firefighter Joseph Manning told The Dallas Morning News. "We didn&#39;t forget. We&#39;re stuck in Atlanta drinking beer."

The government&#39;s response to Hurricane Katrina has been sharply criticized. Elected officials -- chiefly President Bush, Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco and New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin -- have acknowledged flaws in the response.

Some take responsibility
"To the extent that the federal government didn&#39;t fully do its job right, I take responsibility," Bush said earlier this week. He is expected to unveil the largest disaster relief program in history in an address to the nation Thursday night from New Orleans.

"There were failures at every level of government -- state, federal and local," Blanco told Louisiana legislators Wednesday evening in Baton Rouge. "At the state level, we must take a careful look at what went wrong and make sure it never happens again," she said. "The buck stops here, and as your governor, I take full responsibility."

Nagin, once angry and embattled, was also conciliatory.

"I think now we are out of nuclear crisis mode, it seems as though myself, the governor and president have done some retrospection as far as what we could have done better, and ultimately we&#39;re all accountable at the level of local state and federal government," he told CNN. "And that&#39;s what leadership is all about. We should take responsibility and we should try and do better."

While Blanco did not elaborate on her mistakes, Nagin said he mistakenly assumed that if New Orleans could hold out for a day or two, help would surely come.

"I am not going to plan in the future for the cavalry to come in three days," he told CNN. "I&#39;m going to buy high water vehicles, helicopters, whatever I can do to make sure that I am in total control ... of the total evacuation process."

Vice Admiral Thad Allen, of the U.S. Coast Guard, is now heading the federal government&#39;s recovery effort. On Wednesday, he encouraged state and local officials to bring their issues to him.

"Whether you&#39;re a person or an agency, whatever you&#39;re doing, if you have concerns and they&#39;re not stated where somebody can act on them, that&#39;s just going to fester," he said. "And I, as the principal federal official in this response, am encouraging any leader that wants to talk to me about real or perceived problems of what&#39;s going on out there to do that."

Where was Chertoff?
But the men in charge of the federal Department of Homeland Security and FEMA in the critical days immediately after the hurricane haven&#39;t shared the blame.

Michael Chertoff, the Homeland Security secretary, has offered no explanation as to why he waited three days after the National Hurricane Center predicted a catastrophic hurricane to declare Katrina an incident of "national significance."

In a memo written the day after Katrina made landfall, Chertoff said the Department of Homeland Security will be part of the task force and will assist the [Bush] administration. But the National Response Plan, designed to guide disaster recovery and relief, dictates that the Homeland Security secretary leads the federal response.

Chertoff appointed Michael Brown, then director of FEMA, as the federal official in charge in the Gulf states. Brown was relieved of his post late last week and resigned from FEMA Monday after taking the brunt of the criticism over the response.

Ex-FEMA boss blames governor
Speaking to The New York Times, his first public comments since he was relieved, Brown laid the blame on Blanco and Nagin. He told the newspaper he frantically called Chertoff and the White House in the hours after Katrina hit, telling them Blanco and her staff were disorganized and the situation was "out of control."

"I am having a horrible time," Brown said he told his superiors. "I can&#39;t get a unified command established."

Brown told the Times that he had such difficulty dealing with Blanco that he communicated with her husband instead.

"I truly believed the White House was not at fault here," he told the Times.

On August 30, the same day Chertoff wrote his memo, Brown said he asked the White House to take over the response from FEMA and state officials.

A Senate panel launched the first formal inquiry into the response on Wednesday. But the Senate&#39;s Republican majority defeated a bid by Democrats to establish an independent commission to investigate the disaster response.

Maine Republican Sen. Susan Collins, the panel&#39;s chairwoman, said the response to Katrina was plagued by confusion, communication failures and widespread lack of coordination despite the billions of dollars spent to improve disaster response since the terror attacks.

&#39;Sluggish&#39; response

"At this point, we would have expected a sharp, crisp response to this terrible tragedy," Collins said. "Instead, we witnessed what appeared to be a sluggish initial response."

One of the issues the committee will examine is whether FEMA should stay under the Department of Homeland Security instead of operating as a separate agency as it had in the past.

Sen. George Voinovich, a Republican from Ohio, said the committee would "get into the bowels" of Homeland Security as its members investigate how the federal government, specifically FEMA, planned for and responded to the disaster.

Members of the former 9/11 commission blasted Congress and the Bush administration for inaction on some of its recommendations. Had they been in place, lives could have been saved, they said.

"If Congress does not act, people will die. I cannot put it more simply than that," said former New Jersey Gov. Thomas Kean, referring to what could happen in the next major disaster or terrorist attack.
 

KinkGuy

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Originally posted by Dorset@Sep 15 2005, 10:02 AM
It&#39;s horrible that this kind of event can end in political squabbles played out through the media. A disaster like this doesn&#39;t deserve to be reduced to a political feeding frenzy
[post=343519]Quoted post[/post]​

It&#39;s horrible all right. It&#39;s horrible that "political squabbles" sentenced people to death, poverty and abandonment.

IMHO, if the press hadn&#39;t finally spouted something other than the "party rhetoric"...no help at all would have been provided.
 

KinkGuy

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Originally posted by SpeedoGuy@Sep 15 2005, 01:07 PM
This despite jobs added to the economy.
[post=343550]Quoted post[/post]​

And just what about all those jobs being added? Most are minimum wage or low paying positions with few or no benefits. The TOTAL number of jobs has increased, but the salaries in most regions of the country are stagnant, or dropping.
 

B_DoubleMeatWhopper

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Originally posted by SUMYUNGUY@Sep 15 2005, 10:11 AM
By all means, Mr Whopper, please explain what, exactly, the Presidents responsibility was, both before and after the storm. Where that responsibility started and stopped and while you&#39;re at it, perhaps you could also explain what the Governor and Mayors duties were where the President was concerned and if they lived up to those duties within a reasonable amount of time.

Why bother? You&#39;ve made up your mind, and nothing anyone says is going to change it. And the same can be said about me. We, as humans, see what we want to see, and I&#39;m not going to bang my head against the wall trying to force you to agree with what I perceive as obvious. And I&#39;m not going to change my viewpoint just because you say so. In the end, what happened happened. Pointing fingers isn&#39;t going to change that.
 

DC_DEEP

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Originally posted by SUMYUNGUY@Sep 15 2005, 06:56 AM
Clinton wasn&#39;t impeeched for getting a blowjob, he was impeeched for lying about it under oath.
[post=343446]Quoted post[/post]​
Fair enough. True. But if you are going to correct the previous post, why not go ahead and correct the "bush" part of the post? He has consistently lied about everything since his first term. He has yet to tell the American people what the so-called "Patriot Act" is all about, and most of them won&#39;t bother to read the text of the law. He lied about every aspect of the US involvement in Afghanistan and especially in Iraq. Why oh why won&#39;t someone put him under oath, and get just one more lie out of him, so HE can be impeached?
 

brainzz_n_dong

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Originally posted by madame_zora@Sep 15 2005, 04:25 AM
BnD, thanks for scaring the shit out of me&#33; That is probably exactly what will happen, another excuse to waste more money instead of run things more efficiently. The poll Mark posted lent a better insight to me as to what a conservative stands for- bush is CLEARLY not that&#33; Conservatives, while supporting less personal freedom (ugh&#33;) are supposed to stand for LESS government- our bureaucrasy is at an all-time high, I wonder why more people aren&#39;t upset?
[post=343368]Quoted post[/post]​

Zora,

Unfortunately, many Republicans have abandoned their core beliefs and now feel the way to stay in power is to outspend Democrats when it comes to all things governmental. Many Democrats believe the way to solve all problems is to raise all taxes in all areas and throw that into more & new social spending. Neither wants to truly cut spending, because who is going to go first? Who is willing to offend their base first?

Consider: What if your senators from Ohio or your district&#39;s US representative had the opportunity to bring a big pork-barrel spending project home that would result in a large number of jobs, both temporary and permanent? Everyone else in 49 states might see the price tag (few billion dollars let&#39;s say) and consider that wasteful spending. The people of your area consider it an investment. It would be the same situation if you changed the state name from Ohio to Missouri. Until we as voters decide to reward politicans for doing what is right for the country as a whole versus just being good at bringing home the bacon, nobody has a right to expect things to change.

We have a massive federal bureaucracy in charge of our safety and while things MIGHT be a bit safer than they were on 9/10/01, we&#39;re faaaar from where we need to be. Pick your area, pick your pork...there are lots of both to argue/worry about.
 

madame_zora

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My argument is really quite simple- we are NOT safer after all the spending and "war". We are in fact not even IN a war, we are acting as police in Iraq, which our military was never set up to be. The vast majority of the dollars have been misspent on bureaucracy and the lives lost have brought us no closer to any goal, because there isn&#39;t one. There are only masks and decepetion, we are weaker than we have been in my lifetime. It is impossible for me to say these things without appearing to be republican bashing, because that is what the very clever spin doctors have proclaimed to be true- it is not true. To call a pot black is only that, I don&#39;t care what brand of pot it is.

Whatever disagreements I can make about Reagan&#39;s time in office, and there are a few, I will say that we were safer on the homefront because other nations feared us and respected us. Now there are few who fear us and almost none who respect us, and for good cause. The idiot even had the immense stupidity to announce on tv that we are very weak and could likely not withstand another attack either from terror or nature, thanks, leader&#33; Why not just invite any disgruntled party to bomb us now? I felt like he had just "de-pantsed" us and left our shit hanging in the breeze.

My complaint is not again the doctrines of classical Republicans, it is against the stupidity of people who just believe that anyone who calls themself a Republican is worth merit. The same is true for Christianity at this time, not everyone who uses the name of God is holy, and blasphemy is worse than apathy. If you really love your cause, then support it- that means TAKE RESPONIBIBLITY for weeding out the crap so that your cause does not become wholly corrupt. I feel that this administration is the most corrupt thing I&#39;ve witnessed, and I remember Nixon.
 

KinkGuy

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The entire situation, the course of this country and our impending bankruptcy really isn&#39;t about politics. They just used the party and politics to gain power and unbelievable, beyond comprehension personal and corporate wealth for a very few. Who obviously financed the entire operation of control, deceit and destruction for money.
 

jonb

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Don&#39;t you know? FEMA expected everyone to just load up in their SUVs.

Nagin was culpable too. He honestly thought a government which could send millions of people to Iraq within 24 hours for greed purposes might possibly respond to problems at home in 72 hours.
 

Lex

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And given Nagin&#39;s age, he grew up on shows like "Diff&#39;rent Strokes," "Webster," and "Gimme a Break." And if you watched those shows, you just know that rich and/or powerful/ employed and generous white men are just WAITING to swoop in and help the poor and disenfranchised Black folk of America. Silly him.