We're overdue a Mid East thread

B_big dirigible

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Because there are occasional elections involved, we tend to think of Fatah and Hamas as political actors. This may be misleading. They're hardly components of a government, if by "government" we mean something like a small-scale version of what's found in the US, or Britain, or Finland, or any other real country. A better model might be robber gangs. The factions are essentially fighting to see who gets to rob the stagecoach. Unfortunately, if US aid (or anyone else's, for that matter) increases, so does the treasure on board the stagecoach. We can probably expect the boosted lucre to inspire even more fighting.
 

SteveHd

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"Mr Abbas has said he will rule by presidential decree until conditions are right for early elections."
Yeah, "early" is vague. In the interim the leadership is technically unelected. In the unlikely event Hamas should win, expect a "pout" from USA.:smile:
 

dong20

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Because there are occasional elections involved, we tend to think of Fatah and Hamas as political actors. This may be misleading. They're hardly components of a government, if by "government" we mean something like a small-scale version of what's found in the US, or Britain, or Finland, or any other real country. A better model might be robber gangs. The factions are essentially fighting to see who gets to rob the stagecoach. Unfortunately, if US aid (or anyone else's, for that matter) increases, so does the treasure on board the stagecoach. We can probably expect the boosted lucre to inspire even more fighting.

I agree, they're more like schoolyard bullies made Prefect than policitians in the traditional mould. Sinn Fein was treated the same way once remember so perhaps it's not totally hopeless?

I wouldn't advocate aid partly for the reason you mention and because it would reward such behaviors. One might argue that lifting sanctions is much the same thing of course, and I suppose there's some mileage in that view. But to me those sanctions should not have been imposed at all so I'd probably disagree on that point of detail.

If the protaganists could concentrate on doing something something other than having a public pissing content and lobbing the odd missile or bus bomb into Israel and succeed for [erhaps 12 months then I'd reconsider the 'aid' situation.
 

stretcher74

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<rant>

I don't see how it's good news for America. Why should we be feeding our enemies ? Because this is the vaguely less rabid branch of Palestineanism ? Palestinean people who dance in the street and give out candy when they still thought 50,000 americans might be buried underneath the twin towers. The Palestineans and Islamists who in exile turned Lebanon into a warring shithole and whose leadership responded to American Peacekeepers in Beiruit by filling 281 body bags in one day. The wife-beating, raping,lying, honor-killing, pedophile-led people who practically invented(or coinvented) suicide-bomb modern terrorism, crocidile tears oppression PR and islamofascism.

What they call culture is teaching kids to blow themselves up(even most animals won't do that), murder women and children and sing songs about blood drinking jews and the infidel. The ones who stand around in western aid bought Nike shoes and burn our flag and defile the holy sites of judeaism and christianity by using the church of the nativity in bethlehem as a urinal(literally).

Let them eat dirt. If anyone Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia or the Berkley Leninist League wants to pitch to feed them then so be it.

Israel should carpet bomb them out of existance like Imperial Japan. The UN will pass a resolutions condeming them either way.The US should sell fucking warbonds and gather kitchen grease for the project. All together now !

You know the russians never got this shit in the ME durring the cold war because the Muzlims knew what would be done to them.

</end rant>
 

stretcher74

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<rant>
I don't see how it's good news for America. Why should we be feeding our enemies ? Because this is the vaguely less rabid branch of Palestineanism ? Palestinean people who dance in the street and give out candy when they still thought 50,000 americans might be buried underneath the twin towers. The Palestineans and Islamists who in exile turned Lebanon into a warring shithole and whose leadership responded to American Peacekeepers in Beiruit by filling 281 body bags in one day. The wife-beating, raping,lying, honor-killing, pedophile-led people who practically invented(or coinvented) suicide-bomb modern terrorism, crocidile tears oppression PR and islamofascism.

What they call culture is teaching kids to blow themselves up(even most animals won't do that), murder women and children and sing songs about blood drinking jews and the infidel. The ones who stand around in western aid bought Nike shoes and burn our flag and defile the holy sites of judeaism and christianity by using the church of the nativity in bethlehem as a urinal(literally).

Let them eat dirt. If anyone Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia or the Berkley Leninist League wants to pitch to feed them then so be it.

Israel should carpet bomb them out of existance like Imperial Japan. The UN will pass 12 resolutions condeming them either way.The US should sell fucking warbonds and gather kitchen grease for the project. All together now ! What does it take to become an enemy anymore.

</end rant>
 

dong20

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If the protaganists could concentrate on doing something something other than having a public pissing content and lobbing the odd missile or bus bomb into Israel and succeed for [erhaps 12 months then I'd reconsider the 'aid' situation.


Errrr....what I meant to write was

If the protaganists could concentrate on doing something something other than having a public pissing conteSt and lobbing the odd missile or bus bomb into Israel and succeed for Perhaps 12 months then I'd reconsider the 'aid' situation.

Posted in error before checking and then PC crashed. :mad: Back online now but too late to edit!!
 

cocktaste

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<rant>
I don't see how it's good news for America. Why should we be feeding our enemies ? Because this is the vaguely less rabid branch of Palestineanism ? Palestinean people who dance in the street and give out candy when they still thought 50,000 americans might be buried underneath the twin towers. The Palestineans and Islamists who in exile turned Lebanon into a warring shithole and whose leadership responded to American Peacekeepers in Beiruit by filling 281 body bags in one day. The wife-beating, raping,lying, honor-killing, pedophile-led people who practically invented(or coinvented) suicide-bomb modern terrorism, crocidile tears oppression PR and islamofascism.

What they call culture is teaching kids to blow themselves up(even most animals won't do that), murder women and children and sing songs about blood drinking jews and the infidel. The ones who stand around in western aid bought Nike shoes and burn our flag and defile the holy sites of judeaism and christianity by using the church of the nativity in bethlehem as a urinal(literally).

Let them eat dirt. If anyone Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia or the Berkley Leninist League wants to pitch to feed them then so be it.

Israel should carpet bomb them out of existance like Imperial Japan. The UN will pass 12 resolutions condeming them either way.The US should sell fucking warbonds and gather kitchen grease for the project. All together now ! What does it take to become an enemy anymore.

</end rant>
I'm sorry to say this to you, but your ignorance is showing. Do a little more research. This conflict is as old as the hills. The logic that you are spewing exists in la la land and is not based on reality or what would actually change anything. Both sides are ultimately at fault, and I'm not denying Palestinian individuals committing horrible acts of violence but both Israel and the Palestinians have tried to engage in ethnic genocide. There are Right wing nutcases on both sides whose only goal is to make the situation worse. We can thank Britain for all this. What a place to put the Jews in. Couldn't they have given them Hawaii, lol? Don't give me the bullshit about religion either. People have moved for millions of years. Locations have nothing to do with who you are. It's just a mess.
 

dong20

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<rant>
I don't see how it's good news for America. Why should we be feeding our enemies ? Because this is the vaguely less rabid branch of Palestineanism ? Palestinean people who dance in the street and give out candy when they still thought 50,000 americans might be buried underneath the twin towers. The Palestineans and Islamists who in exile turned Lebanon into a warring shithole and whose leadership responded to American Peacekeepers in Beiruit by filling 281 body bags in one day. The wife-beating, raping,lying, honor-killing, pedophile-led people who practically invented(or coinvented) suicide-bomb modern terrorism, crocidile tears oppression PR and islamofascism.

What they call culture is teaching kids to blow themselves up(even most animals won't do that), murder women and children and sing songs about blood drinking jews and the infidel. The ones who stand around in western aid bought Nike shoes and burn our flag and defile the holy sites of judeaism and christianity by using the church of the nativity in bethlehem as a urinal(literally).

Let them eat dirt. If anyone Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia or the Berkley Leninist League wants to pitch to feed them then so be it.

Israel should carpet bomb them out of existance like Imperial Japan. The UN will pass 12 resolutions condeming them either way.The US should sell fucking warbonds and gather kitchen grease for the project. All together now ! What does it take to become an enemy anymore.

</end rant>

I appreciate it's just a rant, but it's no less imbecilic, generalistic, nonsensical and simplistic for being one, but if it makes you feel better, who cares.

Lebanon is not US' enemy and Lebanon poses no direct threat to the US. If you took your head out of your ass for just a moment you may see that. :rolleyes:

P.S.
When you say most animals, which other animals (besides Humans) do you know of that blow themselves up, I'm just curious?
 

vince

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<rant>
Israel should carpet bomb them out of existance like Imperial Japan. The UN will pass 12 resolutions condeming them either way.The US should sell fucking warbonds and gather kitchen grease for the project. All together now ! What does it take to become an enemy anymore.

That would make a nice final solution to the problem wouldn't it??

this racist anti-Muslim bullshit gets to be too much sometimes.
 

stretcher74

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I'm sorry to say this to you, but your ignorance is showing. Do a little more research. This conflict is as old as the hills. The logic that you are spewing exists in la la land and is not based on reality or what would actually change anything. Both sides are ultimately at fault, and I'm not denying Palestinian individuals committing horrible acts of violence but both Israel and the Palestinians have tried to engage in ethnic genocide. There are Right wing nutcases on both sides whose only goal is to make the situation worse. We can thank Britain for all this. What a place to put the Jews in. Couldn't they have given them Hawaii, lol? Don't give me the bullshit about religion either. People have moved for millions of years. Locations have nothing to do with who you are. It's just a mess.



My ignorance is showing, but you don't say how. If I only knew more I'd become as liberal as you. This was the Jewish homeland thousands of years ago when the Romans called it Judea, after the 2nd revolt they called it Palestine-Syria because those were misspelling of the Jews old enemies and the most humiliating names they could come up with at the time.

Why don't the pals move ?

When pal-beloved Abu(sp) the boy-loving Egyptian heard the call to kill jews and swam the Red Sea he gathered together his band of PLO thugs and others with bad facial hair and teeth and they brainstormed a revival of the name over some Johnny-Walker: while admitting that palestine as a place distinct from Trans-Jordan only exists and was created as a brand name for anti-judeaism, the fiction is convienent to their ambitions and egos.

This war persists because muslims as a whole can't and won't back down from the lands under their black flag. Ever. The thought of reliquishing or leaving 1% of the middle-east to reasonable productive peoples is an indictment of their incompetence and worthlessness.

You've called me racist and anti-muslim. But Islam isn't a race. The blanket defense of those cultures who would kill or subjugate most of the posters defending them if given the power is what is most comical. I'd call it ignorance if information wasn't available to you, but since information is I can only diagnose it as a failure of reason.

As for what animals preferentially kill their own young for political,military ends or social status, I leave that open to the biologists and entomologists of the future. Bees ? Or perhaps there is a pal-beatle somewhere deep in the Brazilian rain forest. There are an awful lot of beatles in the world you know.
 

stretcher74

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I appreciate it's just a rant, but it's no less imbecilic, generalistic, nonsensical and simplistic for being one, but if it makes you feel better, who cares.

Lebanon is not US' enemy and Lebanon poses no direct threat to the US. If you took your head out of your ass for just a moment you may see that. :rolleyes:

P.S.
When you say most animals, which other animals (besides Humans) do you know of that blow themselves up, I'm just curious?

if you could read properly you'd see I never said Lebanon was our enemy, just that their society was trashed by Islamists and Pals.
 

SteveHd

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<rant> I don't see how it's good news for America. Why should we be feeding our enemies ? ,,,</end rant>
Easy now. I didn't say was good news for America. As taxpayer on retirement income, I'm not really pleased about money poured into what might be a rathole. As you saw in my earlier message, I'm not exactly oozing with sympathy, but come on, things are really bad for the everyday Palestinian. Yeah, some of them are terrorists, some of them danced in the streets when the towers fell, but not all are that way. They need help. *I'm not going to mention I have profound doubt that they can ever pull their heads out of their asses.*
 

SteveHd

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This war persists because muslims as a whole can't and won't back down from the lands under their black flag. Ever. The thought of reliquishing or leaving 1% of the middle-east to reasonable productive peoples is an indictment of their incompetence and worthlessness.
Instead of "muslims" you should have written Palestinians. If the Palestinians had signed the peace treaty with Israel in 2000, I'm sure the rest of the islamic world would gone along with it. Actually they wouldn't have had a choice.
 

SpeedoGuy

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First I saw this:

This war persists because muslims as a whole can't and won't back down from the lands under their black flag. Ever. The thought of reliquishing or leaving 1% of the middle-east to reasonable productive peoples is an indictment of their incompetence and worthlessness.

Then you give us this:

You've called me racist and anti-muslim.

Is this a denial? If so, I'm having trouble reconciling it with the first statement above.
 

stretcher74

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First I saw this:



Then you give us this:



Is this a denial? If so, I'm having trouble reconciling it with the first statement above.

I should clarify. I'm anti-muslim, but that doesn't make me racist. I think the religion is stupid and evil. It's the religion and associated death-murder apocaypto-style culture that hold these regions back, not anything to do with their ethnicity. Babylon/persia are where civilization started for goodness sake. Code of Laws/rights Hanarabbi(sp), Archetecture, Writing, Agriculture, Literature, Irrigation, Art huge emipres with logistics and trade and then Islam pours out of Arabia extinguishing one culture and civilization after another ... and for advancement ... not so much at all. Like a wet blanket thrown over a lamp.

The Jews have been stubborn enough not to yield or die and this drives the infernal musulmen(sic) round the bend.
 

stretcher74

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Instead of "muslims" you should have written Palestinians. If the Palestinians had signed the peace treaty with Israel in 2000, I'm sure the rest of the islamic world would gone along with it. Actually they wouldn't have had a choice.

It's the other way around. The rest of the arab/muslim world goads and prods the pals into endless conflict. Eternal Struggle with Israel allows the various flavors of islamic tyranny in the middle east to distract from their utter failure to deliver much but suffering and stagnation to their people. (Dubai excepted ?lol)

Palestine is a proxy war in the rest of the muslim world for the desired military war of extermination they haven't been able to win. That's why they won't settle any or integrate palestoners on a permenant basis. They want to keep these professional victims as a full time and multiplying thorn in the wests' side forever.
 

dong20

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if you could read properly you'd see I never said Lebanon was our enemy, just that their society was trashed by Islamists and Pals.

Given that the thread is about Lebanon, and posts so far, especially the one you referenced where about Lebanon I think it was a reasonable inference.

I'll find it easier to read your posts properly when you stop writing like a 10 year old.

If you can't or won't discriminate between Islamic Radicalism as practiced by (in this context) terrorists and Islam as practiced by millions worldwide who feel the same dislike as most about Radicalism. when you continue to condemn the whole religion as, among other things, "stupid and evil" and suggest having Lebanon(?) blown off the face of the planet I will continue to consider you more than deserving of at least one of those epithets.

I'm still curious about the exploding animals reference, perhaps your irrational anger caused you to type it.