Whale, the other red meat

[SteveHd]

Whale, anyone? Article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/6695885.stm

Before reading the article I didn't know whale was a food item. My first thought was "What! ... Are they nuts?" but then realized I can't be critical because I eat other mammals. The piece is a bit long but worth reading and certainly thought provoking.

 

[dong20]

It's very popular in many nations, notably Japan. Though the packaged stuff is often very high in Mercury.

 

[SteveHd]

Yeah, the mercury content would be high. It's a top predator.

 

[Caelestis]

Animal cruelty, slaughter of a specific species and culling is a very emotionally charged and difficult topic. What do I think? I think everyone is wrong

The BBC and the Japanese representative both raise excellent points. What's the difference between cruelty to hens and cruelty to whales? The real difference is the endangered status of the animal. A culture with a long history of whaling will have difficulty in stopping such a trade: supply and demand, and employment of those involved in supply.

Meat is meat. If you eat swan in the UK, you can get arrested because all swans are property of the Queen (I believe). Why?

When was the last time you eat rabbit, fox, bear, amazon parrot? When was the last time you eat cow, lamb, pig, chicken? What's the big difference? Consumers have driven demand for a product (read: animal) to the extent that other animals are considered non-edible and to do so would be cruelty.

We, as a world, have little we can say to the Japanese whalers without stinking of hypocrisy. Australians have a bounty on one of their animals (can't remember off the top of my head): get paid to butcher one! Canada: Seal clubbing. UK: Fox hunting (now outlawed, but the goverment will still cull them, instead using poisons and bullets which cause a thousand times more pain and suffering than any trained hunting dog bite).

Killing an endangered species for any reason is not a good idea, but we have to look at ourselves before we dare criticise others.

 

[dickman45885]

yea, but with lots of mercury I could be my own thermometer.....

 

[SteveHd]

Is that a penis joke? *Mercury in a tube?*

 

[dong20]

Animal cruelty, slaughter of a specific species and culling is a very emotionally charged and difficult topic. What do I think? I think everyone is wrong

I don't think anyone will disagree that animal cruelty is wrong. On the subject of slaughter for specific purposes, I think you have less allies.

The BBC and the Japanese representative both raise excellent points. What's the difference between cruelty to hens and cruelty to whales? The real difference is the endangered status of the animal. A culture with a long history of whaling will have difficulty in stopping such a trade: supply and demand, and employment of those involved in supply.

None, other then the common human association that furry/fluffy or otherwise 'cute' alters their perception of it's value and suffering. Combine that with ignorance and you have your answer. Not all whale species are actually endangered.

Meat is meat. If you eat swan in the UK, you can get arrested because all swans are property of the Queen (I believe). Why?

Perversities of the Royal Prerogative - which also applies to 'Royal' fish: porpoises, sturgeon, dolphins and, yes Whales even though they're not actually fish. Go figure.

When was the last time you eat rabbit, fox, bear, amazon parrot? When was the last time you eat cow, lamb, pig, chicken? What's the big difference? Consumers have driven demand for a product (read: animal) to the extent that other animals are considered non-edible and to do so would be cruelty.

If such items were traditional or readily available in western society, as some used to be, and indeed some still are, you can bet your bottom dollar they'd be on the menu, and some are. Some things we eat everyday will be considered equally 'esoteric' if not outright disgusting by some cultures.

We, as a world, have little we can say to the Japanese whalers without stinking of hypocrisy. Australians have a bounty on one of their animals (can't remember off the top of my head): get paid to butcher one! Canada: Seal clubbing. UK: Fox hunting (now outlawed, but the goverment will still cull them, instead using poisons and bullets which cause a thousand times more pain and suffering than any trained hunting dog bite).

The claim by the Japanese when Minkie hunting that it's for 'scientific' purposes is certainly questionable. But they're not the only nation that hunts whales or has suggested it may do so again. It's unfair to lay all the blame at the Japanese' doorstep.

BTW, on the fox hunting; 1000 x worse you say? I'd suggest that as you have never been chased, terrified across the countryside perhaps for hours before being torn apart by dogs I don't think you're in a position to make accurate assessments of the relative levels of cruelty between that and other methods.

I've read the material and, speaking for myself I'm entirely unconvinced that a pack of dogs is primarily concerned that they despatch their prey with due concern for it's swift and painless passing. By comparison, seal clubbing is almost humane.

Killing an endangered species for any reason is not a good idea, but we have to look at ourselves before we dare criticise others.

On the first sentence I agree, completely. On the second I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[SteveHd]

The real difference is the endangered status of the animal.

That's only part of it. Many shark species are being depleted but they won't get the same empathy. Shark meat doesn't have the emotional impact of whale meat.

 

[dong20]

That's only part of it. Many shark species are being depleted but they won't get the same empathy. Shark meat doesn't have the emotional impact of whale meat.

Exactly. Sharks aren't 'cute' enough.

 

[Caelestis]

BTW, on the fox hunting; 1000 x worse you say? I'd suggest that as you have never been chased, terrified across the countryside perhaps for hours before being torn apart by dogs I don't think you're in a position to make accurate assessments of the relative levels of cruelty between that and other methods.

I've read the material and, speaking for myself I'm entirely unconvinced that a pack of dogs is primarily concerned that they despatch their prey with due concern for it's swift and painless passing. By comparison, seal clubbing is almost humane.

Well yes, you're right. I've never been chased, terrified across the countryside. I've also not been poisoned to death over the course of a few days, nor gassed and had my eyeballs dissolved before I die. I've also not been shot and left for dead over the course of god only knows how many days.

I used to be totally against Fox Hunting, ready to burn and murder any supporter of it. Then I spent some time looking into it further. I honestly believe the current alternatives are worse. I don't like any society that culls an animal, but I'm not educated enough in the right areas to understand it's necessity. If they're going to do it, they might aswell do it in the least painful way possible. I do totally disagree with the whole pomposity of fox hunting. It's not something that should be glorified. Butchering should never be glorified.

Anyway, we're derailing a bit here. Fox hunting is a subject that people should try and read into and form a relatively unbiased view on. The media will always push one view. It's the job of an intelligent person to look past that.

 

[Caelestis]

Oh thats hardly fair, sharks are beautiful creatures. Anyone who would place the appeal of an animal above that of another should be first in line for killing for meat.

Go go cannibalism!

*shuffles off in search of fava beans and chianti*

 

[dong20]

Oh thats hardly fair, sharks are beautiful creatures. Anyone who would place the appeal of an animal above that of another should be first in line for killing for meat.

I was being sarcastic.

I like sharks, have dived with a few, at least once at night.

That said, I think sharks not being cute enough to engender the levels of public outcry at their hunting, along the lines that for example baby seals is spot on.

That was HD's point - in the general public's perception seals are cute, sharks are mean. I was agreeing with his point, not the perception.:smile:

 

[dong20]

Well yes, you're right. I've never been chased, terrified across the countryside. I've also not been poisoned to death over the course of a few days, nor gassed and had my eyeballs dissolved before I die. I've also not been shot and left for dead over the course of god only knows how many days.

That was exactly my point. You statement was rooted in anthropomorphic standpoints.

I used to be totally against Fox Hunting, ready to burn and murder any supporter of it. Then I spent some time looking into it further. I honestly believe the current alternatives are worse. I don't like any society that culls an animal, but I'm not educated enough in the right areas to understand it's necessity. If they're going to do it, they might aswell do it in the least painful way possible. I do totally disagree with the whole pomposity of fox hunting. It's not something that should be glorified. Butchering should never be glorified.

I was always opposed to it as a sport, along with Hare coursing, badger baiting etc. But having grown up in the countryside and having a uncle on whos farm I spent much time I'm also aware of the great damage foxes (and other 'cute' critters) can do. Killing foxes (and other pests) humanely is the only way to go I agree. But when someone says killing using A is 1000 times worse then with B - I have to ask, based on what?

Anyway, we're derailing a bit here. Fox hunting is a subject that people should try and read into and form a relatively unbiased view on. The media will always push one view. It's the job of an intelligent person to look past that.

Indeed, onto sharks. At least we're back in the sea.

 

[dong20]

I was using your post to make a point that whilst you are 100% right that people think like that, I totally disagree with it

OK, but that was far from clear from your statement.:smile:

 

[D_Joseba_Guntertwat]

I've eaten shark meat in Thailand, and baby humpback whale in Iceland. Both delicious, not endangered, and therefore not worth making such a fuss over.

 

[kalipygian]

In the Yupik and Inupiat villages on the Bering sea and Arctic coasts, migrating grey whales are the major source of food. Each village has a quota of X number of whales (usually 1 or 2) X number of strikes (maybe 6) they go out when the sea ice breaks up(about now)in open boats called umiaks, built of driftwood (that is all there is, trees don't grow there) and covered with seal or walrus skin.
Where I live on cook inlet, traditionally beluga whales, which are here all year, are hunted, there has recently been a population decline, cause unknown, and there is a moratorium on hunting at present.
In the Aleutian islands, there is a depletion of sea otters, because orcas have gotten into the habit of eating them, a recent development.
Stellar sea lion populations have crashed by over 90%, cause uncertain, best theory a change in the species of fish available, from one high in oil, to one low in oil, the mothers have to nurse a long time, and are having fewer pups.

 

[dong20]

I'm sorry, I shall try and make things more clear from now on

But yes, sharks are lovely (I cry every time I watch Jaws and they blow him up lol)

It's OK most people don't seem to understand what I write either. I think Hollywood should make a movie about the dark side of dolphins, or attack of the killer chimps.

Time to shatter a few misconceptions.

 

[dong20]

You mean like..

"Flipper revealed - the dark side of dolphins"
"How Timmy got stuck down the well - Skippy the true story"?

Exactly.

The true challenge to Lassie - What really happened to John Grey.

That kind of thing.

50:50 royalty split OK.

 

[SteveHd]

Speaking of Lassie, is dog fair game? The article briefly mentioned dog.

 

[Caelestis]

Speaking of Lassie, is dog fair game? The article briefly mentioned dog.

Yes, why not?

I'm sure Jack Russell would taste lovely with a bit of curry sauce.